Meeting Gildor

[Alcuin]

Earlier I posted on the talking fox of Woody End. What followed for Frodo and his friends were two close encounters with a Nazgûl. In the second encounter, the Nazgûl began to hunt them, only to be interrupted by the arrival of a group of Elves. We aren’t told how many there are, though they seem to have been more numerous than the Hobbits: perhaps as few as five or six, perhaps as many as ten or even a dozen. They’re singing until they reach Frodo and his companions, but stop: are they done with singing, or do they sense the Nazgûl who has merely withdrawn into the shadows? As they have just passed the Hobbits hiding nearby, the last Elf turns and calls to Frodo by name.

I argue in the thread on the fox that the purpose of the “talking fox” is to demarcate the end of the idyllic life Frodo has led and the end of the introductory part of the storyline. We are three chapters into the Fellowship of the Ring, but only now is Frodo at last on the move.

Over the years, I’ve read a great deal of speculation about who exactly “Gildor Inglorion of the House of Finrod” might be. It is true that Tolkien once considered that he might a member of the royal house of Finwë, first King of the Noldor, and a descendent of Finrod’s, but seems later to have abandoned that notion. I want to avoid that issue if I can by taking a more minimalist approach. This is a side issue, but makes what Gildor tells Frodo profoundly poignant.

In the First Age, Barahir, chieftain of the First House of the Edain, saved Finrod in battle. Finrod gave Barahir his ring and vowed to help Barahir should he need it. After Barahir died, his son Beren wore the ring. When Thingol demanded a Silmaril in exchange for the hand of his daughter Lúthien, Beren went to Nargothrond, the kingdom of Finrod, showed him the ring, and asked for his help. The brothers Celegorm and Curufin, sons of Fëanor, were also in Nargothrond at that time. When Finrod spoke to his people about his oath to Barahir, Celegorm and Curufin spoke against him. The Noldor of Nargothrond refused to help Beren, but Finrod held to his oath to Beren’s father. He gave the rule of Nargothrond to his brother Orodreth (the father, perhaps, of Gil-galad, though the genealogy is unsettled), and with ten companions, set out with Beren. They were captured by Sauron, and after the ten companions were killed one by one in Sauron’s dungeons, Finrod gave his life to save Beren, who was saved and freed by Lúthien.

I think Gildor must have been one of Finrod’s counselors, and later of Orodreth’s and Gil-galad’s. As I pointed out in the thread on the fox, he advises Frodo exactly as he might advised Finrod: “[D]o not go alone. Take such friends as are trusty and willing.” When Finrod left Nargothrond, Celegorm and Curufin had turned the hearts of the people against him. And from all his long years in Middle-earth, Gildor has learned, “[A]dvice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill.”

After the fall of Gil-galad, Gildor seems to have taken to wandering Eriador. But he is in contact with many folk: Lindon, certainly, where it seems the greater part of the Noldor remained in company with the surviving Sindar; and Rivendell, where Elrond led the surviving Noldor of Eregion (Hollin) after Sauron destroyed it, along with the Sindar and Noldor sent with him from Lindon in the futile attempt to stave off Sauron’s assault upon Eregion. He is also in contact with the Dúnedain who remain, the Rangers; and with the other denizens of Eriador.

Gildor gently draws out Frodo in their conversation. He tells Frodo nothing of Bilbo’s whereabouts when Frodo asks about Bilbo. Then he reveals that he understands the Nazgûl is hunting Frodo. He turns away Frodo’s questions on the nature of the Ringwraiths, but though more gentle prodding, discovers that Gandalf is missing. This pulls him up short. When Frodo asks for advice, Gildor hesitates - resists, almost - and recites an aphorism about meddling in the affairs of wizards. Frodo responds with a sharp retort (in context, almost certainly a saying among the Dúnedain, the only folk who had close interaction with Elves) that Gildor has clearly never heard before.

Gildor is old. I think he came from Eldamar, and if so, he’s at least 7,000 years old. He probably hasn’t heard anything new, much less something funny, in centuries. The only Hobbit that speaks Quenya, or Sindarin for that matter, that he’s met before is probably Bilbo, so when Frodo speaks to the Elves in Quenya, they proclaim him “a jewel among Hobbits.” Reader’s Companion says that Elves played with their language so that one of their ways of saying “no” had evolved into implying “yes”. (The same thing happens in English, at least: the first time I heard someone say, “Oh, that’s wicked!” to express approval I took it at face value and was shocked.) When Frodo retorts, “Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes,” I think Gildor laughs - really laughs - from surprise and delight and amusement for the first time many hundreds of years.

Then he tells Frodo, “The Wandering Companies shall know of your journey, and those that have power for good shall be on the watch.” Gildor is good to his word. The profound results of this are easy to overlook.

• The arrival of Gildor and his companions prevents the Nazgûl from discovering and seizing Frodo and the Ring at the very outset of the story.
• When Frodo and his friends become lost and trapped in the Old Forest, Tom Bombadil rescues them, telling them, “‘We heard news of you, and learned that you were wandering,’” and later Frodo learned that “it seemed that in some fashion, news had reached [Tom Bombadil] from Gildor concerning the flight of Frodo.”
• At The Prancing Pony, Strider says that he had heard that Gandalf was missing, the Black Riders had appeared, and that Frodo had left Bag End and disappeared, explaining, “It was the Elven-folk of Gildor that told me this”.
• When Strider and the Hobbits meet Glorfindel, Glorfindel tells them, “Some of my kindred, journeying in your land … learned that things were amiss, and sent messages as swiftly as they could.” His kindred, of course, were Gildor and his companions.

The whole success of Frodo’s mission to carry the Ring to Rivendell relies upon his “chance” encounter with Gildor.

Finally, the encounter with Gildor is the beginning of Frodo’s journey into a new and different world. Aragorn and the surviving Dúnedain of Arnor live in that world, the world their forefathers, the Edain, lived in, the world of the Elves. He will remain in that world for the rest of his life. As Frodo left his old life, we readers encounter the talking fox; he enters his new life when he meets Gildor.

[Valandil]

Very nice! So used to the *like* button on Facebook - I really wanted to use it here.

[Valandil]

BTW - I'll check the text soon to see what gave me the impression, but I had thought the traveling company was a good deal larger. Scores, at least.

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Alcuin

Reader’s Companion says that Elves played with their language so that one of their ways of saying "no" had evolved into implying "yes". (The same thing happens in English, at least: the first time I heard someone say, "Oh, that’s wicked!" to express approval I took it at face value and was shocked.)

Interesting post Alcuin!

Concerning this section though, I think this detail is external rather than internal. At one point Tolkien deleted base al and lá "not" and associated it with an interjection of pleasure/assent, and thus he had lá "yes" possibly connected with a base ala "good"...

... but later JRRT decided that base ala should be negative, and lá became "no".


I think the Reader's Companion maybe could have stressed "in a sense" in their passage, but reading Weldon's article (VT) -- in my opinion at least -- this matter concerns Tolkien's changing mind rather than a change of meaning within the history of Quenya itself.

Weldon too, notes Frodo's line at the start of his article; I take it to be a humorous nod to the external scenario, that at different points in Tolkien's lifetime, the same Elvish word meant yes and no.

A minor point in any case

[Attalus]

Excellent posts, all. Thanks for posting, Alcuin

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Alcuin

Then he tells Frodo, “The Wandering Companies shall know of your journey, and those that have power for good shall be on the watch.” Gildor is good to his word. The profound results of this are easy to overlook.

• The arrival of Gildor and his companions prevents the Nazgûl from discovering and seizing Frodo and the Ring at the very outset of the story.
• When Frodo and his friends become lost and trapped in the Old Forest, Tom Bombadil rescues them, telling them, “‘We heard news of you, and learned that you were wandering,’” and later Frodo learned that “it seemed that in some fashion, news had reached [Tom Bombadil] from Gildor concerning the flight of Frodo.”
• At The Prancing Pony, Strider says that he had heard that Gandalf was missing, the Black Riders had appeared, and that Frodo had left Bag End and disappeared, explaining, “It was the Elven-folk of Gildor that told me this”.
• When Strider and the Hobbits meet Glorfindel, Glorfindel tells them, “Some of my kindred, journeying in your land … learned that things were amiss, and sent messages as swiftly as they could.” His kindred, of course, were Gildor and his companions.

The whole success of Frodo’s mission to carry the Ring to Rivendell relies upon his “chance” encounter with Gildor.

It took me more than one re-read to grasp Gildor's significance for Frodo's mission. And what I never quite could understand if how Gildor spread this news so that it reached the ones needing to know in time. There was a lot to pass on: news of the Black Riders, Gandalf, Frodo and where he was going. I had the impression Gildor and his companions were going the other way than Frodo and the other Hobbits. How did the news then proceed them then to Tom Bombadil?

I did at times wonder whether Gildor had a lesser Ring, perhaps one that Celebrimbor made and Sauron never touched which allowed him to send word around. I can't really see him lugging messenger pigeons around in case he needs to communicate something important really quick.

[Alcuin]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

And what I never quite could understand if how Gildor spread this news so that it reached the ones needing to know in time. There was a lot to pass on: news of the Black Riders, Gandalf, Frodo and where he was going. I had the impression Gildor and his companions were going the other way than Frodo and the other Hobbits. How did the news then proceed them then to Tom Bombadil?

I did at times wonder whether Gildor had a lesser Ring, perhaps one that Celebrimbor made and Sauron never touched which allowed him to send word around. I can't really see him lugging messenger pigeons around in case he needs to communicate something important really quick.

I wondered about that, too. Hammond and Scull in Reader's Companion suggest the messages were sent by birds, but upon reflection, I don’t think that’s necessary.

The message went to Bombadil, then to other Elves and the Dúnedain, and eventually to Rivendell. I suppose one or more of Gildor’s company could have ridden ahead like Paul Revere - “The Nazgûl are coming! The Nazgûl are coming!” - but I don’t think that happened.

A concise, clearly restated message could travel rapidly from person to person and thus eventually to Rivendell. The advantage of this method is that the message will travel very quickly, much faster than if one person carried it, and a great many allies will be aware of it. The disadvantage is that a great many people are in the know, and if any one of them is captured and tells the Ringwraiths, the Enemy is aware of the message. The only information to the Enemy’s advantage is that Frodo is “bearing a great burden without guidance,” but it tells the Nazgûl a good deal about Frodo.

Set against that is Aragorn’s statement at The Prancing Pony that “the Elven-folk of Gildor that told me this; and later they told me that you had left your home,” indicating that he was directly in touch with the Elves, and that they, too, had been watching Frodo. This brings up something I’d not considered: if the Elves were watching Frodo, that must have been at Gandalf’s request, which would explain Gildor’s recognizing and speaking to Frodo in the Woody End.

Here is the elapsed time with the pertinent dates:

day date
0. - Sept 24 - Frodo with Gildor in Woody End
1. - Sept 25 - Gildor and Frodo leave Woody End
2. - Sept 26 - Frodo meets Bombadil, who has Gildor’s message
5. - Sept 29 - Frodo meets Aragorn, who has Gildor’s message
15 - Oct. 9. - Glorfindel leaves Rivendell because of Gildor’s message

It seems likely that one or more of the Elves reached Bombadil the first night, September 25. Either that day or the next, Aragorn must have learned the news, and begun “watching the East Road anxiously” in expectation that Frodo passed through the Old Forest. The Witch-king made the same assessment on September 27: see Reader's Companion p 164; Tolkien’s notes cited there also indicate he knew that “the Dúnedain have met Elvish messengers, and [he] is uneasily aware that many enemies are watching him”. Two days later, the Dúnedain delayed one Nazgûl carrying the Witch-king the message that the Ring was in Bree so that it arrived too late to be of use: Strider had already led the Hobbits into the wilderness.

It is about 300 miles from the Shire to Rivendell. The message probably took less than one day to reach Bombadil; one or two days to reach Aragorn; and at least 13 days to reach Rivendell if Glorfindel set out the next day. (If Glorfindel set out the same day, 14 days.) A message taking 13 days to go from the Woody End to Rivendell means the messenger had to travel 23 miles a day: that would not seem too difficult for an Elf. And if Gildor and all his companions began moving east with the news as soon as it was light on September 25, they should have been able to arouse a good deal of interest in Frodo and his plight.

Originally Posted by Eärniel

It took me more than one re-read to grasp Gildor's significance for Frodo's mission.

It took me decades and many, many re-readings until I realized Gildor’s significance in the past year or so. That led me to understand that the talking fox is a signpost, a marker in the story.

[Attalus]

Fascinating. I had always felt that the "talking fox" was merely a holdover from the mind-set of The Hobbit, but now I see it was not so.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Alcuin

I wondered about that, too. Hammond and Scull in Reader's Companion suggest the messages were sent by birds, but upon reflection, I don’t think that’s necessary.

The message went to Bombadil, then to other Elves and the Dúnedain, and eventually to Rivendell. I suppose one or more of Gildor’s company could have ridden ahead like Paul Revere - “The Nazgûl are coming! The Nazgûl are coming!” - but I don’t think that happened.

A concise, clearly restated message could travel rapidly from person to person and thus eventually to Rivendell. The advantage of this method is that the message will travel very quickly, much faster than if one person carried it, and a great many allies will be aware of it. The disadvantage is that a great many people are in the know, and if any one of them is captured and tells the Ringwraiths, the Enemy is aware of the message. The only information to the Enemy’s advantage is that Frodo is “bearing a great burden without guidance,” but it tells the Nazgûl a good deal about Frodo.

Heh, glad to see I wasn't the only one puzzled by this.

I suppose I discounted the idea of a messenger travelling alone because of its danger. A lone Elf is no match for a number of Nazgûl, unless he had the strenght of Glorfindel. And by the Third Age not so many of those would be readily available for message-duties either.

Originally Posted by Alcuin

It took me decades and many, many re-readings until I realized Gildor’s significance in the past year or so. That led me to understand that the talking fox is a signpost, a marker in the story.

Well, I'd be lying if I said I got all the points on which Gildor was influential immediately. Some I didn't even see until you made that nice little list upthread.

[The Gaffer]

Excellent post, and a great observation re Mr Fox.

I think it's my favourite part of the story. The Hobbits stepping over the threshold.