Epilogue 2: Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age

[kerbouchard]

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

I wonder what that means? What bonds?

I always thought that this meant things like, if i don't do x,y,z the everlasting darkness will overtake me. You know, Oaths, like the sort of bonds that the Oath of the Sons of Feanor laid on them. At the end of the Silmarillion Maedhros and Maglor have this discussion about whether they should steal the silmarils or just surrender. But they finally decide they have to honor the Oath or they will be screwed.

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

I was interested to learn how the Haradrim came to serve Sauron. Blame the Numenoreans.

During the time Sauron was captive in Numenor, almost all of the Numenoreans served him through his proxy Al Pharazaon. In "The Letters of Tolkien" Tolkien says "of course Sauron had the ring when he was captive in Numenor, that is why it was so easy for him to corrupt them." The Haradrim were descendant of Numenorean settlements on the coast of Middle Earth. AS was the "Mouth of Sauron"

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

But... who gets the credit for defeating Sauron? The text seems to indicate (to me) that GG and E managed to knock him down before kicking their respective buckets, but Isildur claims to have dealt 'a death blow'. What does that mean? Did he actually best Sauron - who had just killed the two best warriors in the combined army - or did he merely finish off a downed enemy?

This is an interesting question. Consider the following. In the Silmarillion there are many instances of the Eldar fighting Maiar in the form of Balrogs. But no Elf ever killed a balrog unless he himself was killed. So even a great among the firstborn, who walked in both worlds at once, could not kill a balrog without being killed himself.

So we see that Feanor and Fingon were killed by taking on more than one balrog and Glorfindel and Gandalf killed a balrog in one on one combat and were killed in the process. The one who seems to have fared best was Feanor holding of several balrogs until maedhros and the bros came to his aid, but Feanor was mortally wounded and died. I believe it is a question of those who walk in the seen world (man, hobbit, dwarf) vs those who walk in the both the seen and the unseen world (vala, maia, eldar) and that only those who walk in both worlds can defeat a maia. IN the Letters of JRRT, Tolkien said that even with the Ring, no mortal could have defeated Sauron and he implied that only Elrond had a clear chance.

So since the Eldar have 100% failure rate in surviving one on one combat with balrogs. We can assume that Gil-Galad's death was a foregone conclusion and Elendil never had any chance at all. In any event it seems that if gil-galad's best chance was mutual death against Sauron without the ring, then with the ring he needed Elendil's help.

So my answer is Sauron was defeated only because those two took him on together. Isildur might of slit the throat of a downed enemy but he was periheral to the story of that combat.

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

So... any ideas as to where Saruman's downfall started? Also.... What does it mean to have studied 'The devices of Sauron of old'? Does that refer to his actions in Beleriand? Interesting. I have some trouble understanding how this comes about, though... Saruman studies up on what Sauron has done in the past - this seems to me to be simple prudence. Yet somehow this leads to him falling into Sauron's ways. Hmm.

Sauruman and Sauron were both Maiar of Aulë. In this tale those who followed Aulë seems the most inclined to be arrogant and suffer a fall due to their pride and arrogance that is born of their creative talent. Feanor is one example. I think in the end as a result of examining the skill and subtlety of Sauron and in trying to uncover the secrets of ring making, Saruman finally envied the abilities of Sauron and began to try to outdo him. We can contrast that with Tom Bombadil who has absolutely zero interest in the ring and in power or dominion. In "The Letters", Tolkien describes him as someone that can be compared to somebody who has taken a vow of poverty and as such is interested by neither power nor material gain. His interests lie elsewhere so he can't be corrupted.

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

So... what exactly does it do? Sure it's a ring of power, and I gather it's powerful, but is it just a glorified motivational tool?

I think the one instance where we have a sure case of Gandalf using the Elven ring is when he "motivates" Bilbo to give up the One Ring and leave it on the fireplace mantle for Frodo. If you re read that passage with this thought in mind, you will see that something extra is going on. A second instance of two Elven rings acting in concert are when Bilbo states in Rivendell that he wanted to go back and get the ring several times but Elrond *and* Gandalf would'nt let him. Or should we say "prevented" him ... with their motivational tools. After all, Bilbo accomplished two things that no other ring bearer before or after ever could. He gave up the ring and he didn't pursue it afterwards (gollum, sauron and frodo went crazy when they saw somebody else with it).

We can contrast the power of Gandalf's ring with that of the Witch King. The Witch King wields fear. Gandalf wields hope. The Witch King is very powerful.

Last thought on Elven rings. While sam's gardner box was created using the power of Galadriel's ring, Frodo's Phial of Galadriel seems to have had some true power too. I think maybe it was some sort of device that allowed him to channel galadriel's help or the power of her Elven Ring. Like when they defeated the watchers at the pass of Cirith Ungol. Galadriel was quite powerful but as tolkien says in the Letters, while she seemed to think she could defeat Sauron with the Ring, Tolkien wasn't quite sure.

My question concerning Galadriel. How does she know that she has been forgiven and can pass into middle earth (it is stated somewhere that her ban on returning to valinor is lifted because she refused the ring from frodo)