Why not Snape?

PippinTook · 10-07-2004, 07:55 PM

Why can't Snape get the Defense Against the dark Arts position? Is it because he was a Death Eater and he might teach them bad stuff, or because Dumbledore doesn't really trust him -that- much? I mean, he obviously knows a whole lot about it, and Dumbledore seems to think he is good, so why can't he get the job? especially in book 5 when Dumbledore is forced to let Umbridge be on the staff.

Poor Snapey Wapey. *shudders* ok, that was weird.

Anywho, what are your thoughts, good Mooters?

Lizra · 10-07-2004, 08:07 PM

I once asked..."I wonder why Snape wants the DADA position so badly?" Enquiring minds want to know both these things!

inked · 10-07-2004, 11:47 PM

The only real data we have on that question is that it is rumoured that Snape wants the DADA job. And school rumors are usually unreliable in my recollection (after all, how many people really had cooties, anyway?). Besides good Potions masters have to be pretty rare. Snape seems to be excellent at that. And, come to think of it, Snape's failure to get the post provides good cover for his rejoining the Death Eaters as a spy. He could use it along with Occlumency to prevent Voldemort from discovering his lying.

***azalea*** · 10-08-2004, 02:32 PM

It has been mentioned at least twice that he has applied for it every year (once when Harry asked Dumbledore, and once when Umbridge asked Snape about it), so we do know he would like the job. But we don't know why he isn't given it, except that I think it was hinted (although it may have been my mind filling in the blanks) that his being around the Dark Arts any more than necessary might tempt him to start using them again. I don't think Dumbledore wants to be an enabler.

As to why he wants the job -- he's always been into the Dark Arts, and that seems to have been his first love, academically speaking. I happen to have the theory that his father used dark arts, and we know how things learned at an early age can be so ingrained in people. He knows he'd be good at it as well.
Plus, he may hate Voldie so much now that he wants to make sure those Death Eaters get a real you-know-what kicking from the future Aurors! Who knows?

**Nurvingiel** · 10-26-2004, 09:26 AM

I think Snape would be a great Defence Against the Dark Arts teacher, but who could possibly match him as a potions master?

He's unreasonably biased to Gryffindors in his class, but even they admit that he's a brilliant Potions master.

I think he's biased because he's cultivating Malfoy so he can get information from him. We know now that he's a spy for the Order.

Pytt · 10-26-2004, 09:49 AM

we know he's knowledge in the dark arts, and thereafter DADA, is great. and i think he would have done great as DADA teachers. but i think maybe he might be tempted to use them again, and then, maybe, join voldemort.

and he is a reat Potion-maker, and i think it would be easy to find his equal.

i don't think he will be DADA teacher in the books, beacuse of thesee things.

Lalaith_Elf · 11-07-2004, 03:08 PM

I think it's mainly because of his past.

But think about it, if Snape has gone back to Voldy (did he? Or was that matter all settled in Book 5? I really need to read the books again), then whether or not Snapes actions were honourable, Voldy could use Snape to his advantage. And if Snape was teaching DADA at Hogwarts then that could be a problem.

(Okay, hands up if that didn't make sense *puts hand up* It sounded good in my head...

)

Beren3000 · 11-07-2004, 04:24 PM

Or MAYBE, Snape as a DADA teacher is reserved as a motif for one of the later books; that would make for a dark and exciting plot indeed!

**Nurvingiel** · 11-07-2004, 05:26 PM

Book 5 Spoiler below:

Snape didn't go back to Voldemort, he's a mole for the Order. He pretends to be a Death Eater, when in fact he's gathering information for the Order to help overthrow Voldemort. You might notice he doesn't do anything evil, except harass people from Gryffindor. Aside from that fact that he hates Harry, I think he also does this to get Malfoy to trust him more, so he can get information out of him. Draco is a bit of a git, so this is entirely plausible.

Lalaith_Elf · 11-07-2004, 07:35 PM

That's what I meant... he goes back to Voldy as a spy. Ah, but you never know what could happen. Voldemort is known to be very pursuasive.

Manveru · 11-26-2004, 09:53 PM

speaking of which, why is malfoy allowed to go back to hogwarts? when it is clearly known that his whole family are death eaters? is it because voldemort hasnt officially gone public yet or something. do u think he'll be there in the 6th book now that everyone knows you know who is back? or is dumbledore so generous and forgiving that he thinks he can convert malfoy and others to his cause? cuz it seems to me hes teaching magic to future death eaters (kinda counter-productive)

**Nurvingiel** · 11-27-2004, 10:07 AM

Well, I think Dumbledore would want to keep an eye on him. Plus, Malfoy might be an irritating git, but he actually hasn't done anything evil. Dumbledore wouldn't punish him for who his father is. I don't think Narcissa is a Death Eater either.

EDIT: He hasn't done anything evil that we know about anyway.

Telcontar_Dunedain · 11-27-2004, 01:49 PM

But she was a follower and helper of Voldemort. Kreacher went to her with the information to try and get the prophercy.

sun-star · 11-27-2004, 06:13 PM

Maybe Dumbledore thinks he can control Draco more if he's at Hogwarts. It's not like Draco's much of a threat anyway even if his parents are. His threats are always a bit pathetic and probably do more to put the students off Voldemort than encourage them to join him!

Manveru · 11-28-2004, 09:11 PM

ya but chances are draco is going to grow up to b a death-eater, so its not really helping the situation by teaching him magic, plus didnt he attack harry on the train or something

inked · 08-03-2007, 10:48 PM

NOW we can really discuss Snape. He's probably the best drawn character of the whole series and certainly the most ambivalent until the final byte of memory is served. What do you think of him now?

sun-star · 08-06-2007, 08:29 AM

Snape was actually the aspect of Book 7 I was most disappointed with. I expected him to turn out to be on the good side and to have killed Dumbledore on D's orders, so that was fine - but I hoped he would have a better reason to fight against Voldemort than unrequited love for Lily. How boring! I wanted to end the book respecting and pitying Snape while recognising his flaws, and I think that's what JKR was trying to achieve, but I respect Snape less now that we know he was on the good side mainly because of a rather creepy schoolboy crush.

I also thought Snape's memories in the Pensieve, while interesting, were written in an uncharacteristically clumsy way for JKR. Everything was explained in one big information dump, conveniently providing all the answers in neat consecutive order. Disappointingly unimaginative.

inked · 08-13-2007, 11:18 PM

He did have a better reason for fighting Voldemort, sunstar! I am a bit abashed that you miss genuine repentance and a lifetime of penitence and self-sacrifice as due to a schoolboy crush.

I therefore give you penance! DANTE and BEATRICE to be contemplated as parallel to SNAPE and LILY.

I am looking forward to your reply.

sun-star · 08-14-2007, 03:57 AM

Don't you think that if Snape was really repentant, if he regretted anything about his behaviour other than that it lost him Lily, he would have really tried to reform his character after her death? Dante's love for Beatrice led him to a deeper understanding of divine love, drawing him away from the personal and specific to the eternal and universal. Snape, however, remained a cruel, spiteful, selfish person until his death. Leaving aside what he did as a Death Eater (and I'm not convinced that his work for the good side as a spy outweighed the evil he did to preserve his cover), as a teacher he tormented innocent children to the point where Neville is more afraid of Snape than anything else. He never tried to get over his hatred of James and Sirius and he projected his feelings for them on to Harry, without comprehrending that Lily would have wanted him to be kind to her orphaned son. Someone who was really penitent wouldn't have done these things or at least would have felt sorry for them - there's no sign that Snape did.

To me, there's just something so selfish about Snape's love - it only extends to Lily, not her family or the people she cares about. That's why I can't buy that Harry would ever name his son after him

***Tessar*** · 08-14-2007, 03:07 PM

Well, Harry did take a number of blows to the head...

10-07-2004, 07:55 PM	#1
PippinTook The Infamous Tea Hobbit Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Riding my Attack Llama, CORY! Posts: 1,162	Why not Snape? Why can't Snape get the Defense Against the dark Arts position? Is it because he was a Death Eater and he might teach them bad stuff, or because Dumbledore doesn't really trust him -that- much? I mean, he obviously knows a whole lot about it, and Dumbledore seems to think he is good, so why can't he get the job? especially in book 5 when Dumbledore is forced to let Umbridge be on the staff. Poor Snapey Wapey. shudders ok, that was weird. Anywho, what are your thoughts, good Mooters? __________________ http://jupiter.walagata.com/w/shanakdakhete/svbf.gif If I can stop one heart from aching, I shall not live in vain. -Emily Dickinson But the Master comes, and the foolish crowd Never can quite understand The worth of a soul and the change that is wrought By the touch of the Master's hand. Though she be but little, she is fierce! -MSND

10-07-2004, 11:47 PM	#3
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	The only real data we have on that question is that it is rumoured that Snape wants the DADA job. And school rumors are usually unreliable in my recollection (after all, how many people really had cooties, anyway?). Besides good Potions masters have to be pretty rare. Snape seems to be excellent at that. And, come to think of it, Snape's failure to get the post provides good cover for his rejoining the Death Eaters as a spy. He could use it along with Occlumency to prevent Voldemort from discovering his lying. __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

10-26-2004, 09:49 AM	#6
Pytt The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: trondheim, norway Posts: 1,388	we know he's knowledge in the dark arts, and thereafter DADA, is great. and i think he would have done great as DADA teachers. but i think maybe he might be tempted to use them again, and then, maybe, join voldemort. and he is a reat Potion-maker, and i think it would be easy to find his equal. i don't think he will be DADA teacher in the books, beacuse of thesee things. __________________ Don't Panic!

11-07-2004, 03:08 PM	#7
Lalaith_Elf Her Infernal Majesty Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,188	I think it's mainly because of his past. But think about it, if Snape has gone back to Voldy (did he? Or was that matter all settled in Book 5? I really need to read the books again), then whether or not Snapes actions were honourable, Voldy could use Snape to his advantage. And if Snape was teaching DADA at Hogwarts then that could be a problem. (Okay, hands up if that didn't make sense puts hand up It sounded good in my head... ) __________________ "It is a good viewpoint to see the world as a dream. When you have something like a nightmare, you will wake up and tell yourself that it was only a dream. It is said that the world we live in is not a bit different from this." - Yamamoto Tsunetomo

11-07-2004, 07:35 PM	#10
Lalaith_Elf Her Infernal Majesty Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,188	That's what I meant... he goes back to Voldy as a spy. Ah, but you never know what could happen. Voldemort is known to be very pursuasive. __________________ "It is a good viewpoint to see the world as a dream. When you have something like a nightmare, you will wake up and tell yourself that it was only a dream. It is said that the world we live in is not a bit different from this." - Yamamoto Tsunetomo

10-07-2004, 08:07 PM	#2
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	I once asked..."I wonder why Snape wants the DADA position so badly?" Enquiring minds want to know both these things!

10-08-2004, 02:32 PM	#4
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	It has been mentioned at least twice that he has applied for it every year (once when Harry asked Dumbledore, and once when Umbridge asked Snape about it), so we do know he would like the job. But we don't know why he isn't given it, except that I think it was hinted (although it may have been my mind filling in the blanks) that his being around the Dark Arts any more than necessary might tempt him to start using them again. I don't think Dumbledore wants to be an enabler. As to why he wants the job -- he's always been into the Dark Arts, and that seems to have been his first love, academically speaking. I happen to have the theory that his father used dark arts, and we know how things learned at an early age can be so ingrained in people. He knows he'd be good at it as well. Plus, he may hate Voldie so much now that he wants to make sure those Death Eaters get a real you-know-what kicking from the future Aurors! Who knows?

11-07-2004, 04:24 PM	#8
Beren3000 Fëanorophobic Join Date: May 2004 Location: Between the pages of a book Posts: 1,417	Or MAYBE, Snape as a DADA teacher is reserved as a motif for one of the later books; that would make for a dark and exciting plot indeed!

11-26-2004, 09:53 PM	#11
Manveru Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 256	speaking of which, why is malfoy allowed to go back to hogwarts? when it is clearly known that his whole family are death eaters? is it because voldemort hasnt officially gone public yet or something. do u think he'll be there in the 6th book now that everyone knows you know who is back? or is dumbledore so generous and forgiving that he thinks he can convert malfoy and others to his cause? cuz it seems to me hes teaching magic to future death eaters (kinda counter-productive)

11-27-2004, 01:49 PM	#13
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	But she was a follower and helper of Voldemort. Kreacher went to her with the information to try and get the prophercy. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

11-27-2004, 06:13 PM	#14
sun-star Lady of Letters Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England Posts: 2,476	Maybe Dumbledore thinks he can control Draco more if he's at Hogwarts. It's not like Draco's much of a threat anyway even if his parents are. His threats are always a bit pathetic and probably do more to put the students off Voldemort than encourage them to join him! __________________ And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool.

11-28-2004, 09:11 PM	#15
Manveru Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 256	ya but chances are draco is going to grow up to b a death-eater, so its not really helping the situation by teaching him magic, plus didnt he attack harry on the train or something __________________ Earendel arose where the shadow flows At Ocean's silent brim; Through the mouth of night as a ray of light Where the shores are sheer and dim He launched his bark like a silver spark From the last and lonely sand; Then on sunlit breath of day's fiery death He sailed from Westerland

08-03-2007, 10:48 PM	#16
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	NOW we can really discuss Snape. He's probably the best drawn character of the whole series and certainly the most ambivalent until the final byte of memory is served. What do you think of him now? __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

08-06-2007, 08:29 AM	#17
sun-star Lady of Letters Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England Posts: 2,476	Snape was actually the aspect of Book 7 I was most disappointed with. I expected him to turn out to be on the good side and to have killed Dumbledore on D's orders, so that was fine - but I hoped he would have a better reason to fight against Voldemort than unrequited love for Lily. How boring! I wanted to end the book respecting and pitying Snape while recognising his flaws, and I think that's what JKR was trying to achieve, but I respect Snape less now that we know he was on the good side mainly because of a rather creepy schoolboy crush. I also thought Snape's memories in the Pensieve, while interesting, were written in an uncharacteristically clumsy way for JKR. Everything was explained in one big information dump, conveniently providing all the answers in neat consecutive order. Disappointingly unimaginative. __________________ And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. Last edited by sun-star : 08-06-2007 at 10:13 AM.

08-13-2007, 11:18 PM	#18
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	He did have a better reason for fighting Voldemort, sunstar! I am a bit abashed that you miss genuine repentance and a lifetime of penitence and self-sacrifice as due to a schoolboy crush. I therefore give you penance! DANTE and BEATRICE to be contemplated as parallel to SNAPE and LILY. I am looking forward to your reply. __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

08-14-2007, 03:57 AM	#19
sun-star Lady of Letters Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England Posts: 2,476	Don't you think that if Snape was really repentant, if he regretted anything about his behaviour other than that it lost him Lily, he would have really tried to reform his character after her death? Dante's love for Beatrice led him to a deeper understanding of divine love, drawing him away from the personal and specific to the eternal and universal. Snape, however, remained a cruel, spiteful, selfish person until his death. Leaving aside what he did as a Death Eater (and I'm not convinced that his work for the good side as a spy outweighed the evil he did to preserve his cover), as a teacher he tormented innocent children to the point where Neville is more afraid of Snape than anything else. He never tried to get over his hatred of James and Sirius and he projected his feelings for them on to Harry, without comprehrending that Lily would have wanted him to be kind to her orphaned son. Someone who was really penitent wouldn't have done these things or at least would have felt sorry for them - there's no sign that Snape did. To me, there's just something so selfish about Snape's love - it only extends to Lily, not her family or the people she cares about. That's why I can't buy that Harry would ever name his son after him __________________ And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. Last edited by sun-star : 08-14-2007 at 04:00 AM.

08-14-2007, 03:07 PM	#20
*Tessar* Master and Wielder of the Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: IM IN UR POSTZ, EDITIN' UR WURDZ Posts: 6,433	Well, Harry did take a number of blows to the head...

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