Philosophies of Handling Differences

[Rían]

I was thinking a lot last night (one of my favorite pastimes!), and as I was considering how to handle the disagreements between JD and me that are starting to monopolize the creationism/evolution thread (and thus ruin a really interesting thread and one I enjoy being on), I got the idea of how to kill two birds with one stone - I thought I would move the disagreement section onto a new thread (thus freeing up the thread to be on-topic again), and in this new thread, deal with the disagreements as well as discuss people's handling of differences/arguments, as well as the underlying philosophies of why people handle things the way they do.

Unfortunately, one of the "laws" of the universe, besides taxation , is that people will disagree. I think a discussion about how we DO handle disagreements, how we OUGHT to handle disagreements, how we WISH we could handle disagreements, etc. might be really interesting and informative, and hopefully we would all get better in this important area of life. I know that over the years, I've learned a lot, mostly thru painful errors on my part! and I think I'm better at it now than I was years ago, but I know I still have a long way to go, and I'm very open to suggestions and ideas from other people.

As in any of the threads that I start, I ask that ALL posts are considerate to the other posters here at Entmoot. This thread could blow up if people lose their tempers, but OTOH, it could be really, really interesting and informative. I would like to request that everyone read their post thru before hitting the post button, just to double-check that things are clear and are non-attacking. There CAN be disagreements without unpleasantness! I know, for I am good friends with people that I have massive disagreements with, and we treat each other with respect.

To start off, the reason why I have even been answering JD's posts is because his posts state false things about how I think (I can read my mind, and he can't, obviously!) and this reflects on my character, and my character is very important to me. So altho I don't want to clutter up the creationism/evolutionism thread with the disagreement, I do wish to address the disagreement, because I feel that false accusations have been brought against me, and obviously I wish to clear them up, as anyone else would in my place.

So JD, if you want to, you can copy your last post over here, and I"ll also link to it, and I will pick up the discussion from there. You don't have to participate if you don't want to, but you're welcome to if you want to

I repeat that ALL participants in this thread are asked to be polite and considerate. Humor is great, too, as long as it's not depracating humor. Stories of how people handled conflicts in the past, questions about current conflicts, etc. are all welcome.

Let's give it a go!

[Rían]

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[jerseydevil]

rian - all you have to do to find out how to handle a disagreement with me is right there in my signature.

As for moving our disagreement to this thread - won't work - our disagreement isn't in this thread - it's with the handling of the creation thread - therefore until that issue is resoled there - it will stay there. I tried a way of resolving it - I started a thread to talk about evolution - FM closed it though for no reason. Thereofe we are back to square one in yoru thread thanks to him.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

To start off, the reason why I have even been answering JD's posts is because his posts state false things about how I think (I can read my mind, and he can't, obviously!) and this reflects on my character, and my character is very important to me.

Let's not be a hypocrit here Rian okay - why don't you go look at the number of times you claimed I called you a liar or stupid nd then try to find anywhere in my posts where I said that.

[Rían]

Here are two posts of JD's that I will link to and refer to :

post 1

and

post 2

I'd like to start off with post 1, because that is an absolute classic example of what I think the majority of disagreements are caused by - misunderstanding! I'll go get the relevant quotes ...

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Here are two posts of JD's that I will link to and refer to :

post 1

and

post 2

I'd like to start off with post 1, because that is an absolute classic example of what I think the majority of disagreements are caused by - misunderstanding! I'll go get the relevant quotes ...

Oh so I see what this thread is about - let's bitch about JD. How nice of you rian. If you wish to start a fight I'll start a fight.

I suggest this thread gets closed before you get into something you can't handle and this whole thing blows up. This is A WARNING.

[edit]Hey Rian - I find it funny you never tried to talk to me through PM at all. But hey - that wouldn't give you the opportunity to allow everyone to come to a single thead to gang up on me. So did you invite Coney, BoP, Hemel, BJ,Elfhelm and others? [/quote]

[Rían]

Here's what JD said : "Maybe that would be good if you listened to your own rules then. YOu repeatedly said that I called you a liar and so forth and then you said that I called you stupid. "

When JD claimed that I said that he called me stupid, I could NOT figure out where he got that! I did NOT remember saying that JD called me stupid! So I used the handy search tool, and I found where I used the word "stupid" - I said "I would rather be thought stupid than a liar" (or something like that - accurate quote forthcoming).

See, this is a TOTAL misunderstanding!!

As I said before, the truth is very important to me, and being thought/called a liar is abhorrant to me. I was asking JD something along the lines of do you think I'm lying about what I say I believe, and he answered along the lines of that he thought I was deluded/deceived (rough quotes - I can dig up actual quotes if anyone wants them) and he did NOT think I was a liar.

At that point, I was SO relieved to hear from him that he didn't think I was a liar, that I came out with that line that he completely misunderstood - that I would rather be thought stupid than a liar.

I was NOT - repeat NOT - saying that he thought I was stupid! But he took it that way. What I WAS saying is that if someone disagrees with an opinion of mine, they could think several things - they could think that I was lying about my opinion, they could think I was believing in false information innocently, they could think I was just rather dense and didn't understand things well, etc. etc. And that for ME, since I hold truth so highly, I would rather be thought STUPID (option 3) than be thought a LIAR (option 1).

So this situation just illustrates a classic case of misunderstanding.

So JD, let me clear the record and the misunderstanding - I did NOT say that you called me stupid.

Will you choose to believe me? It's true. Do you see how it was a misunderstanding?

[jerseydevil]

Hey Rian - I find it funny you never tried to talk to me through PM at all. But hey - that wouldn't give you the opportunity to allow everyone to come to a single thead to gang up on me. So did you invite Coney, BoP, Hemel, BJ,Elfhelm and others?

Whatever - you may continue with your little attack thread. I'm not responsible for this turning to a flamefest with you though - so I hope you are wearing a fire suit.

[Rían]

JD, I am NOT interested in a fight.

I am interested in restoring understanding and peace, and in addition, talking about philosophies of disagreements, as I said in the first post.

Doesn't it make you feel better to understand that I did NOT say you called me stupid? I can totally see how you misunderstood me! But I want to clear up the misunderstanding, because it IS a misunderstanding.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

JD, I am NOT interested in a fight.

I am interested in restoring understanding and peace, and in addition, talking about philosophies of disagreements, as I said in the first post.

Doesn't it make you feel better to understand that I did NOT say you called me stupid? I can totally see how you misunderstood me! But I want to clear up the misunderstanding, because it IS a misunderstanding.

I find that rather funny you say that considering you have my AOL SN - and didn't contact me like that - nor did you try to PM me. You can say what you wish. That is fine. I do NOT believe you.

[Rían]

I know one thing I did a lot, and I don't do as much now, and it's really been great.

I used to do what I called "filling in the bubbles". You guys know those cartoon bubbles that show what a person is thinking? Well, I would hear people say something, and then "fill in the bubble" and guess what they were thinking. And by golly if it wasn't always something bad about me! One day I had done this with a friend of mine, and it made me really sad, so somehow I got up the nerve to ask her about it, and I'll never forget her face - she was astonished that I had thought she was thinking that! She corrected me about what she was actually thinking, and when she explained, I saw how the misunderstanding came about. And at that point, I vowed to try to stop filling in the bubbles. I decided I would either ask them to explain what they were thinking, or give them the benefit of the doubt and assume I misunderstood them. It's really been a huge change for the better.

My husband's family tended to operate on "mind-reading" and they were very good at it, because they had grown up together! It was very hard on me at first, being new to the family. But then I finally talked to my husband and asked him if we could please work by talking instead of trying to mind-read, and it's been really good. I try to deal with my in-laws, too, that way, because I think this whole "you should know what I want!" thing is really wrong and just fraught with potentials for huge problems.

Does anyone else do this "filling in the bubbles" thing?

[Rían]

One of the biggest disagreements my husband and I had early on involved this mind-reading thing. It was pretty funny when it was resolved, but in the midst of it, it was awful!!

In HIS family, his mom packed his dad's suitcase as a favor to him. In MY family, my dad ALWAYS packed his own suitcase because he WANTED to - he didn't WANT my mom to pack his suitcase, because he had his own way of doing things.

The first time my husband went on a business trip, he got out the suitcase, laid out the clothes, and then sat down to watch tv. In HIS mind, a loving wife would obviously pack his suitcase! I watched him lay out his clothes and the suitcase and then sit down, and it confused me, but I decided to watch tv with him. After awhile, seeing the steam coming out of his ears (but no words), I finally got up the nerve to ask him what was wrong. He said something along the lines of, "why haven't you packed my suitcase? The clothes are all laid out and everything, but you won't pack it " See, HE thought I was not loving him, when in reality, I was just trying to stay out of his way so he could pack the suitcase how he wanted to!

It was a HUGE misunderstanding, and BOTH of us had good motives! Yet we sat for at least an hour, stewing and wondering and feeling unloved and confused. Once we finally talked and cleared things up, it was great! But if we hadn't talked, it would have festered and been the source of bitterness and anger.

Now he lays his clothes out, and I put them in the suitcase because I love him. And he kills spiders for me! along with a million and one other things, because he loves me.

But we HAD to communicate with words!

[Nurvingiel]

I do that when conversing with someone whose first language is not English - to prompt them on a word they are clearly searching for.

I really hope that I'm not being a Little Ms Annoying Interrupty-pants, but I don't think so. I try to read the persons expression and/or tone of voice to see if my help was wanted and appropriate. This is a very complicated way to explain what is a simple conversation.

Recent example:

In kitchen...
Friend: I can't find the... *makes downward motion towards pot*
Me: Lid? It's here. *passes lid*
Freind: Yes that's it. I keep forgetting that word.
Me: No worries, what is it in Swedish?
Friend: Lock
Me: Tack (Thanks)

I had to look up the spelling for "lock" just now.

EDIT: I do this using the context of the conversation to offer a word if someone pauses in the middle of a sentence and seems to be searching for a word.

[jerseydevil]

Funny Rian - how you continue to do that though. Hmmm - images of you claiming I called you an liar or sutpid come to mind. Oh well - the beef isn't that you put words in people's mouths - it's about me you started this thread. Don't act like it isn't by trying to say how you "used" to do things.

[Rían]

That's FINE, IMO, Nurvi! That's being helpful!

What I was talking about is when you overhear two friends saying something like "boy, what she did was really pretty stupid", and ASSUME that they mean YOU! I used to do that ALL the time, and it was miserable!

[Nurvingiel]

It is helpful, and people seem to appreciate it. I acknowledge though, that it could be annoying.

[Rían]

Yes, it can certainly be taken to a level where it's annoying. I think I read something about stutterers once, that they preferred a person waiting for them, instead of trying to say the words for them. Have you heard anything about that?

But do you did what I used to do, Nurvi? Did you overhear bad things where there wasn't a name mentioned and assume it was about you?

[azalea]

This thread is being closed. I think the subject has merit and can be revisited in the future, but for now it is too contentious, especially since recent personal disagreements have already been brought up that haven't been resolved yet. We need to have some time, then we can see about discussing this. Bear with us.