The Choices of Master Samwise

[sun-star]

I've been reading The Two Towers again, and this struck me:

The voices began to move away. Sam heard the sound of feet receding. He was recovering from his shock, and now a wild fury was on him. "I got it all wrong!" he cried. "I knew I would. Now they've got him, the devils! the filth! Never leave your master, never, never: that was my right rule. And I knew it in my heart. May I be forgiven!"

Isn't he being a bit hard on himself? OK, so this is a tense moment (he's just found out that

Frodo isn't dead

) and 'never leave your master' is obviously one of his mottoes - but what else could he have done?

I could understand Sam being angry with himself at first. But Tolkien also says that this (leaving Frodo and taking the Ring) was 'altogether against the grain of his nature'. Does that mean he was wrong to do it? What does Sam (and possibly Tolkien?) think he should have done?

Any thoughts? Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find anything about it.

[katya]

i wondered about that myself, actually. it seems to me that tolkien belives that sam should've stayed with frodo. but that seemed ridiculously silly at the time. it was either stay and die, or at least try to finish the mission and save everyone else. maybe this is saying something about losing hope, even when all seems to be lost. i dont think sam was wrong to leave though.

[Elfstone]

shut up you f**

[Ñólendil]

Sure Sam was being hard on himself. As smug as he was, I think it was also in his nature to beat himself up all the time.

But, of course, not only did he do the right thing, according to what he thought had happened, it was crucial to the quest. If Sam hadn't taken the Ring and moved away, the Orks would have found it on Frodo.

[katya]

ya i thought about that too. but were there a lot of orcs? i dont remember. were there few enough for sam to handle?

[ArwenEvenstar]

i don't think that sam could have taken all the orcs on

[Rían]

I've sure wondered about that, too - it seems to me that if Sam hadn't left, the Ring would have been captured... but he "knew in his heart" he shouldn't have left? Was he just wrong? Does anyone know of any comments Tolkien left on this subject, in Letters or somewhere else?

[Elbereth]

Nolendil's right, if Sam had not taken the Ring, it would have been found on Frodo. I think that Sam did know, 'in his heart' that Frodo was not dead, but I also think he did the right thing in taking the Ring, and he and Tolkien knew this. The way I read it, Tolkien saying things like 'it was against his grain' is commenting on Sam's character, not one what was right or wrong to do.

[katya]

ya i suppose it was really really good that he did chose to leave both because it was the right thing to do, and because it was awesome in the long run that he did get the ring away. but it seems like there is something that says well maybe he should've stayed, except for that wouldve been disatorous. but he wouldn't have known that beforehand its really hard to say. but oh well because he didn't really leave him since he did after all rescue him after he was taken. i dont know though. i think he should've left and it was good he did and that's all i have to say.

[johnnyrod]

Poor old Sam, he gives himself the thick end of the wedge when it comes to deprecation. My take on it is that it all happens very quickly, so he does what he thinks he should. He doesn't want to leave Frodo but he can't very well bury him there and then, and probably would've carried no more remorse than that until he found out that his master wasn't dead. He's always trying, and that means he doesn't give himself too many breaks.

's only my opinion of course.

[samwise of the shire]

I think that Sam did what he did out of love for Frodo and out of love for The Shire. Let's suppose Frodo HAD died. If Sam took the Ring and destroyed it he would have had a better chance at seeing his master again, and if Frodo had been found with the Ring the Shire along with the whole of Middle Earth would have been doomed. I think that at that point in the Quest Sam had begun to realize he might never see Rose or Tom or Nibs or the Gaffer again, and so because he knew there might be that possiblity he took the Ring to safe those bcak home that he loved. And alot of times you have to do things you dont want to do to protect those you love who are indanger.
Sam's nature is a giving one, not caring about what happens to him but always making sure others were taken care of, and if he found he was indangering or hurting someone then he'd kick himself in the butt for it. Even with Gollum he tied the rope as loosely as possible so as to not cause any harm, and he HATED Gollum.
Sam is DEFFINITALY the COOLEST fictional character EVER. He's got a soft heart despite his riseliance(sp?)
Cheers,
Sam

[katya]

*sniff* that was beautiful samwise of the shire. poor sam. poor everyone.

[Artanis]

Sam indeed proved himself as a great hero there. Imagine his choises: To take the Ring from Frodo on the purpose of himself bringing it to destruction, even if he wasn't the one appointed to do so, and thus abandon his beloved friend and master and leave him to the orcs. Or to stay with his master, and not take the Ring, and by that be responsible for the ruin of the Shire and ME when the orcs, and eventually Sauron, got hold of the Ring. An impossible choice for him, and moreover a choice he had to take in a hurry, terrified and lonely as he was.

I think Sam would have blamed himself no matter what he had chosen. He always had trust in Frodo, and suddenly he was on his own. I agree with Ñólendil, it was Sam's nature to be hard on himself.

[Starr Polish]

You've all pretty summed up what I was thinking.

I remember when I first read this chapter, I threw the book across the room (as many others have, I hear). Most definitely the best chapter in LOTR, in my humble opinion.

Sam went against his grain in a sense that if he had done what he truly wanted, he would have stayed with Frodo, but with disastrous results. Something, most likely his good hobbit sense, made him realize he needed to take the ring and at least keep it away from evil hands for the time being to save all that he knew and loved.

And I echo Samwise of the Shire in saying that he is the best fictional character to ever be written.

[Sween]

Originally posted by Artanis
Sam indeed proved himself as a great hero there. Imagine his choises: To take the Ring from Frodo on the purpose of himself bringing it to destruction, even if he wasn't the one appointed to do so, and thus abandon his beloved friend and master and leave him to the orcs. Or to stay with his master, and not take the Ring, and by that be responsible for the ruin of the Shire and ME when the orcs, and eventually Sauron, got hold of the Ring. An impossible choice for him, and moreover a choice he had to take in a hurry, terrified and lonely as he was.

I think Sam would have blamed himself no matter what he had chosen. He always had trust in Frodo, and suddenly he was on his own. I agree with Ñólendil, it was Sam's nature to be hard on himself.

when you put it like that its not that hard a descision at all. stay and be caught by a load of orcs with your best mate and seal the doom of middle earth or go off by yourself. the reason sam does so well in the books is quite simple he is frodo servent i love the part when he does a soliqui so this was my task to die with my master (if thats not in the movie ill kill you PJ)

[Ealenwe]

Sam, dear Sam. I believe Sam made all his choices based on his abiding love of Frodo. He was always a bit hard on himself. Sam was a hobbit of the earth, salt of the earth if you will. Even his vision of power was that of a gardener! Galadriel saw his loyalty and mentioned the quests hope lay in that loyalty. Sam couldn't bear the thought of leaving the 'dead' Frodo but knew the imparativeness of the task at hand. And when he learned that Frodo was not dead, he did not hesitate to rescue and return the Ring to Frodo.

Sam's unwavering devotion and optimism make him one of the most subtley strong characters in the whole story. I think Frodo would not have completed his task without Sam, yet Sam would not have even had such a thought of himself. He did what he did because it had to be done, in the same way one pulls a weed in a garden.

[Nurvingiel]

Sam did do the right thing in taking the Ring. And he rescued Frodo later anyway. Plus, Sam is one of only two people in all of history to willingly give up the Ring. The other is Bilbo.

(Even though Sam had it for less than a week, he gave it up IN Mordor, and without Gandalf to help him.)

[Blackboar]

If I was Sam I would of picked Frodo up onto my shoulders if I thought he was dead and struggled very much to put him down in a safe place (as safe as possible which could mean climbing down ths stairs with him) and laid him to rest there.
Of course if I was Sam then I wouldn't know all the consiquences.

Then I would try and get on with the mission.

I would of probably taken him back towards Gondor or somthing but then I'm an idiot

A total idiot

[cassiopeia]

Originally posted by sun-star
I could understand Sam being angry with himself at first. But Tolkien also says that this (leaving Frodo and taking the Ring) was 'altogether against the grain of his nature'. Does that mean he was wrong to do it? What does Sam (and possibly Tolkien?) think he should have done?

That is a really interesting question. I think he is being too hard on himself. He had to make a very hard decision: to choose between Frodo and the future of Middle Earth. Remember he is only an ordinary hobbit from the Shire, quite unprepared for such a great task. I don't think he was wrong to take the ring, for although harsh, saving Middle Earth is more important than staying with his master. I don't think he could have sat by Frodo and let the orcs come. He could perhaps slay a few orcs, but in the end they would have taken Sam and Frodo and the ring. Sam was more intelligent than that; I'm sure he couldn't have sat and watched the ring fall into the enemy's hands.

Sam has always been my favorite character and IMO (and Tolkiens!) is the hero of the quest. My favorite part of the book is where he finds Frodo and cries: Mr. Frodo, my dear! It's Sam. I've come!

[Eothain]

Yes he was being hard on himself.