Was Frodo really a "hero" in the end?

[stormcrow]

I mean, at the lip of Mt. Doom, he renounced his whole mission. It was Gollum who bit his finger off and fell into the fire, thus destroying the ring. Just a thought.

And while we are at it, another thing that has always bugged me a bit was the ease with which Sam gave up the ring.

[andustar]

Well, I was going to start talking here, but then I remembered there's a looooong discussion about that, here. It's a chat log, btw, so you know how confused hey can get, ppl typing long answers to questions while everyone else has moved on... I think it gets settled by a quote from Letters Tolkien had something to say about the subject . If you can't be bothered to read it (like me, I did Find on this Page ) here's the quote:

"I do not think that Frodo's was a moral failure. At the last moment the pressure of the Ring would reach its maximum - impossible, I should have said, for any one to resist, certainly after long possession, months of increasing torment, and when starved and exhausted. Frodo had done what he could and and spent himself completely (as an instrument of Providence) and had produced a situation in which the object of his quest could (...)

There's a better one somewhere over there

but read the rest if you want, it's quite interesting

As for Sam giving up the Ring easily... i don't know. doesn't it say a bit about that in the book? his hobbit sense and love for his master helped him. Also, he had it for very, very little time and did not use it for Command of any kind.

[andustar]

here it is! found it

"Frodo indeed 'failed' as a hero, as conceived by simple minds: he did not endure to the end; he gave in, ratted. I do not say 'simple minds' with contempt: they often see with clarity the simple truth and the absolute ideal to which effort must be directed, even if it is unattainable. Their weakness, however, is twofold. They do not perceive the complexity of any given situation in Time, in which an absolute ideal is enmeshed. They tend to forget that strange element in the World that we call Pity or Mercy…"

there you go

(on looking at that log again, there are some really useful quotes from Letters. Search for "Letters of JRR Tolkien, no. 246" there for a sad one... how come I never saw Frodo like that before??? darn it. Should have realised. Better still, try harder to get my hands on a copy of Letters...)

[bombcar]

Yes. Frodo's mission failed. Sam is the true hero of the book - my dad wrote an article on this many years ago - and Sam's dedication and love of his master (which is contrasted with Gollum's "Master") allowed him to serve so well, and to give up the Ring with the least pain of anyone.

[sheelova]

Yes, Frodo failed the quest in the end. However, NO ring bearer, could have destroyed the ring after bearing it for so long ( in my opinion any way). Remember that Bilbo was the only person who ever gave up the ring willingly, except for Sam who did not possess it for a long time. Even Gandalf was afraid of the control that the ring could exert over the bearer. After all of Frodo's trials I would say that, yes he was still a hero, the acceptance of the quest alone was enough for me to grant him hero statis. Could any one else have completed the quest? I should say not. I thinkthat it was a matter of the Fates, or a great Doom, such as that in the story of Beren and Luithien. But without the key players in the destruction of the ring ( Frodo, Sam, and Gollum) I do not think that the end could have been the same.

[ragnor]

i believe Frodo was suffering from ptsd by the end of the quest and needed to rest and leave the world he knew for a while.

[Ñólendil]

Welcome Ragnor! How's it fare in Dorthonion?

Helpful tip: talk to Gorlim. Make sure he knows it's neither healthy nor safe to continue to visit his old home. If he doesn't listen to you, he'll be Unhappy for sure.

[ragnor]

Dorthonian is as always. as for Gorlim, since when has he ever listened to anyone but himself! Thanks for the hello.

[galadriel]

Frodo wasn't a hero in the epic, classical sense of the word. That is, he didn't follow the standard "format" that Joseph Campbell made famous, a journey leading up to a key point in which the protagonist rises above his own faults and makes an amazing decision that transforms him into a Hero. Instead, Frodo is a more realistic, believable kind of hero. He wasn't strong enough to throw the Ring into the fire, but no one in Middle-earth could be that strong. Instead, the entire journey was his one test, and during it he survived traumas and temptations that few others could have withstood. Moreover, he didn't give up when all seemed hopeless. He may not be a conventional hero, but he's a hero nonetheless.

I'm not altogether sure why Sam didn't try to keep the Ring. He was definitely tempted. He hadn't worn it as long, so I guess it was easier to give it up. I agree with andustar, that his love for Frodo and his common sense made most of the difference.

[sheelova]

Well said Galadrial. I agree completely.
As far as Sam goes I think that the Ring's affect on one was individual specific. Because the lure of the Ring was so greed oriented, and that was so far detatched from Sam's personality, which was very selfless, it would have taken the Ring a long time to corrupt Sam. Just as it would not have taken the Ring long to corrupt someone motivated by selfish purposes.

[IronParrot]

I think the fact that Frodo succumbed to the power of the Ring is probably one of the most important reasons why LOTR is as powerful and memorable as it is.

It all comes down to the question: Who was most directly responsible for the destruction of the Ring? Because Frodo certainly didn't destroy it - far from it - and Gollum isn't really "responsible" for its destruction either.

[samwise of the shire]

It's really sad that Frodo is'nt the hero of the story but it was as much as he could do to bring the Ring to Mt Doom, I mean any 6 foot Gondorian soldier would have succumbed to the Ring instantly(well save for Faramir)and I think that the reason why Faramir,Sam and Frodo did'nt succumb to the Ring as fast as a PROUD man(like Boromir)was because they were HUMBLE. Boromir was proud and thus he was overcome easier but Frodo because he was humble did'nt succumb as fast, so I think that if a bearer was humble he would be overcome by the Ring as fast as a proud bearer.
Sam

[Ñólendil]

One point: I feel Faramir would undoubtedly have succumbed to the temptation of the Ring, had he borne it, far sooner than Frodo or even Sam. Indeed as can be seen in Window In The West (or of the West, or whatever it's name), the only way Faramir would have acquired the Ring would have been by force. Had he learned more of it, had he seen it, I am not sure (I do mean those words precisely) whether he would have ventured to take it or not. Similar (similar) things might be said of Gandalf, as holy, noble and humble as he was. Thus in their wisdom they did not desire to desire it: to handle it over much or to be its bearer (in Gandalf's case) or to handle or see it at all (in Faramir's). They greatly dreaded It and the idea of It's temptation -- because they were, like most other beings in their time in Middle-earth, vulnerable to these things.

[samwise of the shire]

I think that the Ring worked on pride. Saruman is a good example. He had never seen the Ring and yet he was proud(maybe because he was a wizard maybe because he was the head of the wizards.Illuvatar only knows)just studying about it made him evil. Gandalf on the other hand was humble and yes he was wise so as you said it helped but his humility worked hand in hand with the wisdom,he had NO desire to own the Ring and become Sauron.
Faramir showed his humility and sumbmissivness when Aragorn revealed himself as the King, Faramir who was the only heir of Denethor could have been proud and tried to take the throne but instead he submitted to Aragorns athourity and became a servant to the king, and I defiantly think Boromir would NOT have done that as it might have lowered him.
But I do think that Faramir would have been overcome by the Ring faster than Frodo because he was an heir of kings and had a proud contanece but there were others as succumbed to the Ring sooner then Faramir would've.
Sam

[ringbearer]

Frodo is a hero because;
1. He carried the Ring during the most difficult time to bear it.
2. He received wounds that others would have not been able to bear.
3. He willingly accepted a task that others would have been terrified to attempt.
4. He made it, almost, all the way to the end, and was finally overcome.
5....etc.

How far would anyone else have gone?

[Spock]

Frodo did what only he, a simple Hobbit, could do. He didn't necessarily know all that lay ahead of him yet he went forward through difficult circumstances and did what was needed. If that doesn't qualify as a hero or a patriot or something then I must go back to Vulcan.

[ragnor]

i believe Faramir would not have fallen prey to the powers of the one ring. he was much more the cognitive person than his brother and had a deep sense of history and the old ways as he was taught by Gandalf regarding such. the gondorian knew his place and his role and stayed between the lines. he was the thinking mans warrior to me. as for Frodo : the guy who carries the ball most of the game is always the man in crunch time. don't blame him if the quest took everything out of him by journeys end. even the best pass the ball if they're covered.

[Ñólendil]

I think that besides Bombadil and Goldberry, the only beings who could not have been corrupted by the Ring were the Valar.

[Captain Stern]

I Think some of you are missing the point. I don't think that it was one's personality traits that enabled you to fight the influence of the ring. It was how strong willed you were. There was no one on Middle earth who could withstand Sauron's will indefinetely.

As for the only beings who couldn't have been corrupted by the Ring being The Valar, well I disagree I think.
If Feanor was still "alive" ( for lack of a better term ) I don't think he would have been corrupted by the ring, being more powerful than Sauron to begin with and being 'the most self willed of the Elves'.

[galadriel]

Feanor would have lasted very long, longer than any one else (except for Bombadil and the Valar). He would want to use the ring's power for his own benefit, and I think he would succeed in this at first. But eventually, he too would become servant of the ring. Even the strongest will would be slowly and subtly twisted by the ring, until that person was ultimately corrupted. Feanor may have been nearly as strong-willed as Sauron, but I don't think that he was powerful enough to resist the ring's power.