Decriminalizing marijuana

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

all the people that i know do not, nor would ever, smoke out in public, or anything where they could put themselves, or others, in danger, and believe me i know a lot of people who smoke or eat. and never would they conceive of doing such a thing as driving or any other such thing as that whilst under the influence.

mind bending fact: cannabis actually heightens your judgement, which is why you notice things more acutely, however it lowers your self awareness, reactions things like that

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by Treebeard's apprentice

The only reason it's illegal is so that the law enforcement can keep their jobs. When Prohibition was started, a new group needed to be created to enforce the law. When Prohibition ended, instead of telling the enforcers to get new jobs, they just gave them something else to regulate: marijuana..

This is an excellent point you've made, Treebeard's apprentice wherever you may be roaming now... and a viewpoint I very definitely agree with. Booze should be more regulated, Marijuana should be legalised. Does anyone realize how much more terribly destructive alcohol is compared with pot? There's almost no comparison. Just ask Cypress Hill!

[IronParrot]

So a headline story in Canada these past few weeks concerns one Marc Emery, decriminalization activist and leader of British Columbia's provincial Marijuana Party. He's been running a business dealing seeds online for some time, to customers from both Canada and abroad - technically illegal, but Canadian authorities never intervened.

About two weeks ago he was charged by the DEA and promptly arrested up here in Canada, and the United States government demanded his extradition. If extradited, he likely faces a life sentence to be served in the US. The decision hasn't made its way through the judicial system yet, so it's made for a huge international relations issue here.

Thoughts?

[Lotesse]

He's Canadian? Then what is the DEA doing screwing with him?! Freakin' U. S. government, what harm has he done the US? Honestly, pot busts are SO wrong, they ought to be putting money & effort in tracking down and busting the opium traders and coke importers, and leave the potheads alone.

[IronParrot]

Well, it's a question of legality, right? He has been selling pot seeds to American customers, and that's a direct violation of both domestic laws and international treaties. Is the question of whether or not busting marijuana is a thing worth pursuing even a factor?

There's no straight answer, hence the debate, but I'd lean towards no. It's one thing to push for a change in the laws that govern you, but violating them before they have been changed is not an appropriate way to go about it, nor is it effective.

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by IronParrot

It's one thing to push for a change in the laws that govern you, but violating them before they have been changed is not an appropriate way to go about it, nor is it effective.

Good point to make; and furthurmore, if he really wanted to be making pioneering changes, he shouldn't have flirted with potential disaster by "jumping the gun" and dealing pot-seeds as if it were already a foregone conclusion that it was a legal thing to do. Now the fight to legalise marijuana is short one leader. Counter-productive of him to slip 'n fall like that.

[MrBishop]

The flipside of this argument is that if MJ is legalized and taxed, that's more money in the GVT's pockets, but will we start having to deal with DWS (Driving While Stoned) laws?

DUI laws don't define Influence in any other way than alcohol-related.

[Lotesse]

DUI

Originally Posted by MrBishop

laws don't define Influence in any other way than alcohol-related.

Actually, they do. It's driving while under the influence of a drug OR alcohol; not sure about the exact wording, I guess I could google it. That point you make about the government turning around and profiting off pot is so true, though. It really IS a double-edged sword, because either way, the gov't gets paid. It's a damn shame.

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by IronParrot

So a headline story in Canada these past few weeks concerns one Marc Emery, decriminalization activist and leader of British Columbia's provincial Marijuana Party. He's been running a business dealing seeds online for some time, to customers from both Canada and abroad - technically illegal, but Canadian authorities never intervened.

About two weeks ago he was charged by the DEA and promptly arrested up here in Canada, and the United States government demanded his extradition. If extradited, he likely faces a life sentence to be served in the US. The decision hasn't made its way through the judicial system yet, so it's made for a huge international relations issue here.

Thoughts?

There was a very interesting article in the Globe and Mail the other day. The author basically pointed out that if there was an American who used a website to sell Canadians handguns, we'd be pissed, and we'd want to try him in our courts, according to our gun control laws. It would be fair to ask for this - after all, this hypothetical American was selling guns in Canada. Our laws should be applicable to him.

Well, we have a Canadian who sold pot seeds in the States. Why is it unfair that they want to try him under their drug control laws? Granted, this starts to get highly complicated, but the USA isn't wrong for wanting to try him.

If he was selling pot seeds solely to Canadians, of course his trial would stay in Canada. Isn't international law tricky.

We insist that Americans obey our gun control laws on our side of the border, it's only fair we obey their drug laws on their side of the border.

[The Gaffer]

Yes, the difference with dope being illegal is that there is no concept of a "legal limit" while driving. So, if you test positive from passive inhalation of your flatmate's jazz tabs then you are DUI.

I agree that it's a waste of resources going after some Canadian hippie. Still, he took his chances so I don't feel any particular sympathy.

Double standards abound in this debate. Are they going after the Afghan warlords who've reinstated the world's heroin supply with the same alacrity? Oh wait, they're on our side in the War on Terror™....

The UN should make cannabis bombs and drop them over war zones. All conflict stopped at a stroke.

[Nurvingiel]

Gaffer, I really enjoy your posts and your sense of humour. "Some Canadian hippie" hits the nail on the head.

It is possibly relevant that he is the leader of the Marijuana Party, and a huge pot activist. Still, it does seem as though there are worthier international criminals to persue. (Even though they certainly have a point, now that they've caught him. It may not have taken a lot of resources to find him anyway. ?? )

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

The UN should make cannabis bombs and drop them over war zones. All conflict stopped at a stroke.

WORD!! That is the best idea for ANYthing that I've heard in days!!

[The Gaffer]

They actually tried this with LSD in the 60s: once they'd found out that it made soldiers stop fighting ("wow man, this is really heavy") and wasn't practical as a chemical weapon to stop enemy soldiers from fighting they banned it.

[Spock]

..Cheech & Chong had it right...build a van of it and drive around

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by entss89

i think its bad bad bad to have drugs anywhere they could take them wronge and be all screwed up!

What a cool avatar you have!

[Alcuin]

This thread began over 17 years ago. (Didn’t think about how long Entmoot has been running, did you?) It ran strongly for about 46 months, and has since been quiet. Time for a little review.

When last the thread ran, marijuana decriminalization was controversial, to say the least. Now it appears to be coming to a conclusion, though exactly when and how is another matter.

First, it is noteworthy that as of January 9, 2019, ten states in the United States along with the District of Columbia have legalized marijuana. Seven years ago, in 2012, Rasmussen Polling reported that nearly 9 of 16 people in the United States favored legalizing and regulating its use. Yesterday in Kentucky, Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) was featured in photographs standing in a field of hemp.

McConnell’s support is telling on several levels. Marijuana was restricted in the United States by the Federal government through the Marihuana Tax Act of 1937 and again by the Controlled Substances Act of 1970. Hemp was the major agricultural product of Kentucky until it was outlawed, its principal use being rope, particularly for rigging on ships: in 1943, production in Kentucky reached 52,000 acres (over 21,000 hectares). In 2014, the Obama Administration seized the hemp seed stockpile of the Kentucky Department of Agriculture, which Kentucky contested in court.

In this coming week, the US House of Representatives will debate two bills that propose to legalize marijuana. McConnell, who opposes the Democratic-controlled House leadership on a number of critical issues, not least of which is their party-line impeachment of President Trump, has strongly signaled his support for legalizing hemp.

And yet, at the same time, the Federal government is increasingly restricting the sale of tobacco, raising the minimum age for purchasing tobacco to 21. This matches the age American citizens must reach before they can legally purchase or consume alcohol. You can join the Army and be killed at age 18, or 17 with your parents’ permission, but you can neither purchase nor consume alcohol or tobacco in this country. You can vote for public servants, run for public office, and sign over your entire future to charlatan legal wizards, but you’d better not enjoy a cigarette or a beer!

The recent faux panic over vaping, in which electronic cigarettes were falsely blamed for damaging lungs by the Centers for Disease Control, is a sign that manufactured fear is driven more by political ends than by solid research. Even the CDC’s website on this subject requires that you read far down into the page to find updates that demonstrate its initial reaction was based not upon good medicine, but upon political expediency.

Given the number of serious failures by government and mass media in this country and others, it is increasingly clear that our “betters” are not only not better than their fellow citizens, they appear to be much worse. One wonders what is yet to come.

[Valandil]

I'm not at all crazy about legalization. Yet here I am living in Colorado, which legalized several years ago. And... my long home of Illinois has just legalized recreational marijuana, as of January 1, 2020.

When I moved west 4-1/2 years ago, I first tried to find a job in Colorado... I knew it somewhat, while the rest of the west was a complete unknown. I ended up in Casper, WY... and I was really glad for a time that it worked out that way. Seeing the changes in Colorado (not just the legalization - but the population explosion, and the difficulties with traffic and other infrastructure along the front range due to fast increases in population), I decided at the time that I would NEVER move to Colorado.

Well... we now know how that worked out. Just about like me NEVER wanting to move to Chicago for most of my college years. Watch out young folks... never say NEVER!

Anyway... states look at legalizing marijuana as a way to increase revenue. I'm concerned about the costs... hidden costs and social costs as well as costs that are more measurable. I think it's a mistake... one that we're making all across this country.

[Salohvise]

They have a lot of different opinions it's nice !