Foundation Novels

Haradrim · 02-25-2008, 03:09 PM

I have to say that I think the Sci-Fi Foundation novels are some of the best examples of science fiction I have ever read. The characters were wonderful, the ideas complex, and the whole concept of psychohistory is a really interesting one which might actually be applicable to the real world. I love them dearly and I was wondering what any of you thought of them.

***Earniel*** · 02-25-2008, 03:56 PM

Asimov's Foundation series? I liked them. I didn't think all characters were quite as developped as they could have been but it was a nice read nevertheless. I liked the long scope of the story especially.

Haradrim · 02-25-2008, 05:19 PM

See I liked that Asimov let us see the characters as we wanted to. THey were open to interpretation, more feelings than characters. But as you say its the scope of the stories that make them so great. I mean they span thousands and thousands of years. They just blew me away... I dont know.. maybe thats just me but I thought they were fantastic.

Snowdog · 02-25-2008, 09:13 PM

I was into Issac Asimov's Foundation before I read The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings in the mid-70's. They were quite interesting. There's probably more books out now?

BeardofPants · 02-26-2008, 01:03 AM

Yes. Only the first 3 are worthwhile though. Well, the others are good too, but not 'grandmaster of sci-fi' good.

***Earniel*** · 02-26-2008, 03:54 AM

There are now about 7 books I think...

The Telcontarion · 02-27-2008, 12:40 AM

Asimov's books were pretty good but yes, definately not master of sci-fi by any stretch of the imagination.

Haradrim · 02-27-2008, 03:40 AM

I have to disagree completely. i feel that the ideas and concepts he was introducing to the mainstream were really really amazing. I mean truth be told Im not actually really well versed in most science fiction but I do know something about good books, and the way in which he presented and wrote those novels I found to be pretty damn amazing. However, on another note I would like to ask if anyone could give me some suggestions for science fiction and I will see how they stack up in my own head to asimov's works.

***Earniel*** · 02-27-2008, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Telcontarion

Asimov's books were pretty good but yes, definately not master of sci-fi by any stretch of the imagination.

Don't pin yourself on imagination alone as defining quality. His stories may look a little blander compared to today's sci-fi but they were very influential when sci-fi came up. His three laws of robotics nearly always come into play in sci-fi with any sort of robot, android and what-not. He also coined several terms and ideas which are still used today.

GrayMouser · 03-22-2008, 12:07 PM

The original Foundation novels were great- the characters were underdeveloped of course, but hey, plot and setting....

Unfortunately, Isaac developed the Syndrome (common to Heinlein, too) of wanting to go back and wrench all his earlier writings into one giant overreaching unity, God knows why- there's probably at least a Master's in there for somebody.

The Telcontarion · 03-22-2008, 09:42 PM

Haradrim

you want good sci-fi, look no further than Dan Simmons; start with the Hyperion series (wow!!) Enders game is another interesting one by Orson Scott Card. *Of course Dune by Frank Herbert.*

BeardofPants · 03-22-2008, 11:43 PM

Yep, those are all great recs. Add Tad Williams 'Otherland' series onto that as well.

The Dread Pirate Roberts · 03-25-2008, 08:48 AM

I feel that Asimov's Foundation series was far better in concept than in execution. Without deeper characterization it is difficult for a reader to care what happens. Very cool and innovative SF ideas in there, but the stories came off as rather bland. Exellent stuff, though.

As for some of the other recommendations, I would definitely second Frank Herbert's Dune series (though I have no knowledge of his son Brian's continuation novels), as well as Card's Ender's Game books. And don't skip Speaker for the Dead.

If you don't mind youth-level reading, and you're not religiously sensitive, Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy is interesting. Jane Yolen's Pit Dragon Trilogy isn't bad. And of course you can't go wrong with anything by C.S. Lewis or Neil Gaiman.

BeardofPants · 03-25-2008, 05:16 PM

I'm in the process if re-reading His Dark Materials trilogy (I'm on book 2); it was pretty interesting comparing the movie with the book (number 1) in terms of the 'wimpification'.

Another great series is by Garth Nix - the Old Kingdom trilogy. I've also read the released books in the Keys to Kingdom series, and while they are imaginative, they're not as engaging as the Old Kingdom trilogy.

Draken · 03-26-2008, 11:20 AM

I think Asimov achieved a lot in giving a social science spin to sci-fi. His Three Laws of Robotics allowed him to show an evolution of robotics by essentially 'psycho-analysing' his creations, and psycho-history is a nice Big Idea. But as commented earlier he flogged that horse well beyond death, and his later efforts to cross-reference and tie in every storyline ever into a coherent fictional universe became tedious.

Would agree with "Dune" (certainly the original, maybe the first trilogy... but diminishing returns again). Brian Aldiss has produced some fantastically imaginative stuff (but one more, avoid his later stuff). Personally I love the strange paranoia of Philip K Dick's stories. And I know I say this on this forum every couple of years of so, but if it's epic scope you want it's hard to beat Iain M Banks' Culture novels (especially the first three and especially especially "Use of Weapons").

The Dread Pirate Roberts · 03-27-2008, 12:10 PM

re: Philip K. Dick - Short SF is some of the best SF, IMO. Love his stuff.

A classic not mentioned yet is E.E. "Doc" Smith's Lensmen series. If you like the early SF era, it's great. If you don't like the SF of that period, you probably won't like Lensmen.

02-25-2008, 03:09 PM	#1
Haradrim The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Far Harad Posts: 1,006	Foundation Novels I have to say that I think the Sci-Fi Foundation novels are some of the best examples of science fiction I have ever read. The characters were wonderful, the ideas complex, and the whole concept of psychohistory is a really interesting one which might actually be applicable to the real world. I love them dearly and I was wondering what any of you thought of them. __________________ A Bit More Grown Up This Time...

02-25-2008, 03:56 PM	#2
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	Asimov's Foundation series? I liked them. I didn't think all characters were quite as developped as they could have been but it was a nice read nevertheless. I liked the long scope of the story especially. __________________ We are not things.

02-25-2008, 05:19 PM	#3
Haradrim The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Far Harad Posts: 1,006	See I liked that Asimov let us see the characters as we wanted to. THey were open to interpretation, more feelings than characters. But as you say its the scope of the stories that make them so great. I mean they span thousands and thousands of years. They just blew me away... I dont know.. maybe thats just me but I thought they were fantastic. __________________ A Bit More Grown Up This Time...

02-25-2008, 09:13 PM	#4
Snowdog Dúnedain Ranger of the North Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: The Ruins of Arnor Posts: 892	I was into Issac Asimov's Foundation before I read The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings in the mid-70's. They were quite interesting. There's probably more books out now? __________________ "I am an outlaw, I was born an outlaw's son. The highway is my legacy, on the highway I will run."

02-26-2008, 01:03 AM	#5
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Yes. Only the first 3 are worthwhile though. Well, the others are good too, but not 'grandmaster of sci-fi' good. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

02-26-2008, 03:54 AM	#6
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	There are now about 7 books I think... __________________ We are not things.

02-27-2008, 12:40 AM	#7
The Telcontarion The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: By the shores of cuivinien Posts: 694	Asimov's books were pretty good but yes, definately not master of sci-fi by any stretch of the imagination. __________________ Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

02-27-2008, 03:40 AM	#8
Haradrim The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Far Harad Posts: 1,006	I have to disagree completely. i feel that the ideas and concepts he was introducing to the mainstream were really really amazing. I mean truth be told Im not actually really well versed in most science fiction but I do know something about good books, and the way in which he presented and wrote those novels I found to be pretty damn amazing. However, on another note I would like to ask if anyone could give me some suggestions for science fiction and I will see how they stack up in my own head to asimov's works. __________________ A Bit More Grown Up This Time...

03-22-2008, 12:07 PM	#10
GrayMouser Elf Lord Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ilha Formosa Posts: 2,068	The original Foundation novels were great- the characters were underdeveloped of course, but hey, plot and setting.... Unfortunately, Isaac developed the Syndrome (common to Heinlein, too) of wanting to go back and wrench all his earlier writings into one giant overreaching unity, God knows why- there's probably at least a Master's in there for somebody. __________________ Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill

03-22-2008, 09:42 PM	#11
The Telcontarion The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: By the shores of cuivinien Posts: 694	Haradrim you want good sci-fi, look no further than Dan Simmons; start with the Hyperion series (wow!!) Enders game is another interesting one by Orson Scott Card. Of course Dune by Frank Herbert. __________________ Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

03-22-2008, 11:43 PM	#12
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Yep, those are all great recs. Add Tad Williams 'Otherland' series onto that as well. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

03-25-2008, 08:48 AM	#13
The Dread Pirate Roberts Elf Lord Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 987	I feel that Asimov's Foundation series was far better in concept than in execution. Without deeper characterization it is difficult for a reader to care what happens. Very cool and innovative SF ideas in there, but the stories came off as rather bland. Exellent stuff, though. As for some of the other recommendations, I would definitely second Frank Herbert's Dune series (though I have no knowledge of his son Brian's continuation novels), as well as Card's Ender's Game books. And don't skip Speaker for the Dead. If you don't mind youth-level reading, and you're not religiously sensitive, Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy is interesting. Jane Yolen's Pit Dragon Trilogy isn't bad. And of course you can't go wrong with anything by C.S. Lewis or Neil Gaiman. Last edited by The Dread Pirate Roberts : 03-25-2008 at 10:20 PM. Reason: typo correction

03-25-2008, 05:16 PM	#14
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	I'm in the process if re-reading His Dark Materials trilogy (I'm on book 2); it was pretty interesting comparing the movie with the book (number 1) in terms of the 'wimpification'. Another great series is by Garth Nix - the Old Kingdom trilogy. I've also read the released books in the Keys to Kingdom series, and while they are imaginative, they're not as engaging as the Old Kingdom trilogy. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

03-26-2008, 11:20 AM	#15
Draken Elf Lord Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Durham, England Posts: 694	I think Asimov achieved a lot in giving a social science spin to sci-fi. His Three Laws of Robotics allowed him to show an evolution of robotics by essentially 'psycho-analysing' his creations, and psycho-history is a nice Big Idea. But as commented earlier he flogged that horse well beyond death, and his later efforts to cross-reference and tie in every storyline ever into a coherent fictional universe became tedious. Would agree with "Dune" (certainly the original, maybe the first trilogy... but diminishing returns again). Brian Aldiss has produced some fantastically imaginative stuff (but one more, avoid his later stuff). Personally I love the strange paranoia of Philip K Dick's stories. And I know I say this on this forum every couple of years of so, but if it's epic scope you want it's hard to beat Iain M Banks' Culture novels (especially the first three and especially especially "Use of Weapons"). __________________ I'm beset by self-doubt ....or am I?

03-27-2008, 12:10 PM	#16
The Dread Pirate Roberts Elf Lord Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 987	re: Philip K. Dick - Short SF is some of the best SF, IMO. Love his stuff. A classic not mentioned yet is E.E. "Doc" Smith's Lensmen series. If you like the early SF era, it's great. If you don't like the SF of that period, you probably won't like Lensmen.

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