Let´s talk about Dune...

Anyone besides anduin have read the book? For me it has been a very rich book. So rich that i don´t know where to focus the thread... Perhaps, the first question is what is the book about. The incoming of a messiah? The unity and the disunity of the human race? The power of the indoctrination? Predestination?... Also we can analyze how Dune has influenced in other sci-fi stories: Star Wars (the image of the desert, the use of swords, the Empire, the rebels-the Fremen, the Trade Federation-the CHOAM, the Jedi Council-the Bene Gesserit, the chosen one-the Kwisath Haderach...), Matrix (one thing is to new the path and other to tread it-the image of the future as waving clothes)... Well, the floor is opened. Anyone wants to join?

A very odd error... hmm... My mom just picked this up at the library for me, so I can't really comment on it now.

What error are you talking about? Ben, you must read DUNE! Nevermind about the error....

Came to know this place from anduin post on ezboard forum, about the 1999 date bug... ...anyways... DUNE... ah! Whattagreatbook! The first three, actually (the rest seemed more commercial... but I guess this could be for another thread!). About a coming Messiah? No: I think more about the Making of a Messiah, and not only the conscious will to make (fabricate, invent... by the BeneG) a Messiah, but also how that messianic quality can escape their originators (the BeneGesserit here) and fly by its own wings by the winds of faith: although a faith constructed on false promises, still it is faith, coming from the flesh and hearth and soul, going beyond the manipulations of clerics (or Sisters, or Fathers, ...)

Hi juntel, welcome to Entmoot! You probably followed bmilder from the ezboard forum, because I can only post at this board.... I like your idea of the Messiah being created by the B.G.'s....but how is it that Paul fulfills the prophesy then?

Welcome juntel!! Yeah, anduin i think Herbert wants to keep the two ways opened till the end. We cannot know for sure if Paul is a true Messiah who escape to the control of the messiah-makers or if he´s a mere product of the BeneG. Warning, ben: spoiler incoming. The words of Paul at the final duel can be interpreted in both ways: if he doesn´t use the "recorded" word he´s escaping from messiah-makers and making his own destiny... but if the recorded words were "i won´t say it", then he´s following the path created by the BeneG.

Thanks for the spoiler warning in bold, Fat Middle On second thought, I think I'll skip/skim this thread until I read the book :P

Did anyone read the whole series, or did you all just stop with the first book? I've read all (what, 6?) a few times.. my favorites are Dune and God Emperor of Dune... ...also, has anyone read House of Atreides yet? By our good friend KJA...

I have read only the first one. Perhaps i will read some more,... but i don´t think i´ll read nothing of KJA!!

Ditto

Did Krishnamurti fulfill the path some had chosen for him? The BG, I think, built a place in a people's mind, a throne if you like, well prepared to establish themselves through a genetically prepared offspring (through many generations). That place, so well created, is the prophecy; and the prophecy is after all not really a religious artifact, but one, I think, very down to earth plan... including making that place/throne/man look like having a messianic quality to those of a lesser knowledge (quite condescending of the BG, of course...). So, did Paul fulfill the prophesy, or did he simply sit in a well-prepared throne? What changed everything, is L.Jessica's choices and love... For me, Lady Jessica is to Dune what The Mule is to Asimov's Foundation Trilogy.

I'd agree with Paul as well-prepared prophet rather than just springing out of the blue. The Lady Jessica=Mule analogy is a little less convincing for me. Read the next few, they'll clear some of those questions up somewhat.

I still haven't started, but there was just a question on the game show "21" about who starred in the Dune movie. The answers, apparently, were Sting and Patrick Stewart, but the guy got it wrong :P

Speaking of the movie........did anyone else go see the movie when it came out? As a kid, I loved it.....*now did that come out the same year as ROTJ, or the year after?*.....anyhow, after I read the book last year, I wanted to see if the movie was as good as I remember and how it compared to the book. I cannot begin to tell you how disappointed I was.....I still enjoyed it *Sting*, but the depth of the book just wasn't there.

Directed by David Lynch (Twin Peaks) Paul acted by Kyle McLachlan(??) (Twin Peaks!) Many famous actors having tiny movie roles, although those characters had more depth in the book! I think the atmosphere was very well captured in the movie, and some of the acting was more than adequate (Kyle McSomething was good as Paul), while a lot of the other actors just didn't know what they where doing there (Max Von Sydow!!!), and others were overacting. Overall, it's a tormented movie, trying to do too much justice to a very complex story, being unable to compromise wisely, so it ends up in a wish-washy-takingitselftooseriously movie... What was so EXTREMELY disapointing, and even I think almost a treason (especially since Herbert himself was a consultant), is the treatment of Paul as actually being god-like in the end, so god-like that by his Mighty-Mouse powers he could make it rain on Dune! By just that final scene all the subtlety of the book evaporated(!). I still like the atmosphere though, and when it plays on tv, I catch myself not missing it... (I hope you like the mighty-mouse allusion...)

Yeah, good point I´ve been thinking more on the messiah issue and i must give you the point. There are few chances of a "heavenly messiah", the religion plot is only a cover for the genetic plans. I had forgotten the mentions at the begining of the book of a overdevelopment of machines and the real motivation of the BeneG. In fact i missed a higher development of that motivations. For me it´s plain that Herbert had a very ecologic mind for his time. There are many references in the book to ecology and the evil power of the economic interest over the enviroment. But i think that´s only a secondary plot which could have been reinforced if he had explained better the action of the past overdevelopment of machines. About the film: i haven´t seen it. When it was released my elder bros prevented me to see it till i had read the book. I made my mind to read the book but i couldn´t pass further the Gom Jabbar. Perhaps i wasn´t human yet

The series is very progressive in it's plot developoment. Try reading it for the fantasy and not for the fulfillment.

Oh, jeez. You guys really need to read further in the series... Paul isn't the Messiah. Read at least God Emperor of Dune.

We were more talking about what was meant, not what became. And the film itself unfortunately gives an ending where Paul IS a Messiah of some kind. That's the best reason to read the book(s) before seeing the movie. (sorry anduin, no ICQing.)

Sorry this is off topic.......but juntel do you have ICQ?