Dan Simmons' "Ilium" and "Olympos"

bropous · 03-03-2007, 03:47 PM

I just finished these two books and thoroughly enjoyed them.

But what happened to Caliban? Setebos? The post-humans? What the heck were the voynix anyways? Why keep the humans in luxury?

Seems to me the story is unfinished, with another book to continue the story being written by fellow Coloradoan Dan Simmons. I've only recently begun reading his books, but I do enjoy his writing style, evne though a tad technical at times. His physics knowledge is impressive.

It also (almost) spurs me again to pick up the Iliad, but going through all the Greek names gets a bit cumbersome.

Have any of you folks read these books?

I'm headed off to the bookstore to get a copy of Hyperion. Looks interesting. Wish I could find a list that puts all of his books in order and shows which ones are related to the others. Is Endymion a further extension of Hyperion and its sequel?

The Telcontarion · 03-04-2007, 12:21 AM

This was kind of discussed already:

http://entmoot.com/showthread.php?t=13318

bropous · 03-05-2007, 03:58 PM

Well, Hyperion and Fall of Hyperion were discussed in that thread. I was trying to get a discussion more esoteric to Ilium and Olympos.

The question, again, has anyone heard whether there is to be a sequel to Olympos? The book just seemed to peter out.

brownjenkins · 03-05-2007, 05:45 PM

Basically, it's two sets of two books:

Hyperion and The Fall of Hyperion, the first two and the best. They really read as one book and are up there with my favorite scifi.

Endymion and The Rise of Endymion is the two-book sequel written quite a few years later. Also very good, though not quite as "great" as the first two.

I haven't read anything else by Simmons as of yet, but probably will pick some up one of these days.

bropous · 03-07-2007, 12:58 PM

Right, but I'm really trying to stick to Ilium and Olympos here. There is already an established thread on Hyperion et al.

I haven't really dug into Internet resources on the subject, but was curious whether you Simmons readers have heard of possible continuations of Hawkenberry's tale. And, if anyone can help me answer these issues, I would appreciate it:

What were the voynix?

Why were humans kept in spoiled luxury but in limited numbers?

What happened to Caliban?

brownjenkins · 03-07-2007, 02:18 PM

Dan Simmons does have a forum at his website that might help. I'm pretty sure he only intended to write those two books though. He's one of those writers that likes to leave a good few loose ends for people to mull over.

bropous · 03-07-2007, 03:36 PM

Thanks, Jenkins, I'll give his site a peruse.

afro-elf · 03-03-2009, 01:48 AM

I read both of them. I enjoyed the Morvecs (sp) and Achilles and Hector slaying gods. However, I was disappointed as a whole. It was like a movie with REALLY poor editing. FAR too many unanswered questions and simply TOO much stuff. An art film premise but a B movie outcome.

There was a quote about the Voynix being connected to the Voynix text but it does not say how.

AE

trolls' bane · 08-26-2009, 08:00 PM

I'm currently about halfway through Olympos, and, therefore, I think this thread deserves a bump.

I somehow find it difficult to see how all the loose ends will be tied up in so few pages left, but with the Cantos considered, which tied up all of the remaining loose ends in a matter of twenty pages, I don't doubt Simmons' ability to do so.

I just got to the part where Zeus, in a fit of rage after being awakened from Hera's "spell" vaporized her, tossed Poseidon into Tartarus, and claimed to be the original master of Setebos.

I seem to remember reading about Simmons potentially writing a sequel called The Odyssiad. I would like nothing better than to see a sequel to these, although I'll probably have to read 'em all over again by the time it comes out.

The Telcontarion · 08-28-2009, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trolls' bane

I'm currently about halfway through Olympos, and, therefore, I think this thread deserves a bump.

I somehow find it difficult to see how all the loose ends will be tied up in so few pages left, but with the Cantos considered, which tied up all of the remaining loose ends in a matter of twenty pages, I don't doubt Simmons' ability to do so.

I just got to the part where Zeus, in a fit of rage after being awakened from Hera's "spell" vaporized her, tossed Poseidon into Tartarus, and claimed to be the original master of Setebos.

I seem to remember reading about Simmons potentially writing a sequel called The Odyssiad. I would like nothing better than to see a sequel to these, although I'll probably have to read 'em all over again by the time it comes out.

Someone is falling in love with Simmons I see, well, he is an amazing author. That whole Illium concept of men killing gods and machines vs magic is beyond creative, this man's imagination is in a league of it's own.

trolls' bane · 08-29-2009, 06:37 PM

Agreed. There are parts where you have trouble believing that a person could have imagined it at all.

Such as the revelation that the gods are indeed post-humans with the exception of Zeus.

I think Simmons' work is best in regards to the characters being people one can relate to. I think he did particularly well in Hyperion with the Consul, John Keats no. 2, Father Captain de Soya, and Raul Endymion; and in Illium/Olympos with Mahnmut and Orphu.
Others he leaves appropriately vague, such as Helen.

In other news...

Accross Ilium/Olympos and The Fall of Hyperion, I imagine Leigh Hunt and Daeman as being rather similar.

sumansameer · 05-12-2010, 01:03 AM

It's a line from a Celtic poem, Cad Goddeu ("Battle of the Trees"), originally translated by Robert Graves, and literally transcribed into Sanskrit. The line goes, "Under the tongue root a fight most dread, and another raging, behind, in the head."

The Telcontarion · 02-08-2011, 08:53 PM

I am very disappointed that he has not published anything new in sometime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trolls' bane

I seem to remember reading about Simmons potentially writing a sequel called The Odyssiad. I would like nothing better than to see a sequel to these..

I would appreciate this much.

03-03-2007, 03:47 PM	#1
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Dan Simmons' "Ilium" and "Olympos" I just finished these two books and thoroughly enjoyed them. But what happened to Caliban? Setebos? The post-humans? What the heck were the voynix anyways? Why keep the humans in luxury? Seems to me the story is unfinished, with another book to continue the story being written by fellow Coloradoan Dan Simmons. I've only recently begun reading his books, but I do enjoy his writing style, evne though a tad technical at times. His physics knowledge is impressive. It also (almost) spurs me again to pick up the Iliad, but going through all the Greek names gets a bit cumbersome. Have any of you folks read these books? I'm headed off to the bookstore to get a copy of Hyperion. Looks interesting. Wish I could find a list that puts all of his books in order and shows which ones are related to the others. Is Endymion a further extension of Hyperion and its sequel? __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

03-04-2007, 12:21 AM	#2
The Telcontarion The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: By the shores of cuivinien Posts: 694	do a search first save yourself the time This was kind of discussed already: http://entmoot.com/showthread.php?t=13318 __________________ Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

03-05-2007, 03:58 PM	#3
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Well, Hyperion and Fall of Hyperion were discussed in that thread. I was trying to get a discussion more esoteric to Ilium and Olympos. The question, again, has anyone heard whether there is to be a sequel to Olympos? The book just seemed to peter out. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

03-05-2007, 05:45 PM	#4
brownjenkins Advocatus Diaboli Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Reality Posts: 3,767	Basically, it's two sets of two books: Hyperion and The Fall of Hyperion, the first two and the best. They really read as one book and are up there with my favorite scifi. Endymion and The Rise of Endymion is the two-book sequel written quite a few years later. Also very good, though not quite as "great" as the first two. I haven't read anything else by Simmons as of yet, but probably will pick some up one of these days. __________________ Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.

03-07-2007, 12:58 PM	#5
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Right, but I'm really trying to stick to Ilium and Olympos here. There is already an established thread on Hyperion et al. I haven't really dug into Internet resources on the subject, but was curious whether you Simmons readers have heard of possible continuations of Hawkenberry's tale. And, if anyone can help me answer these issues, I would appreciate it: What were the voynix? Why were humans kept in spoiled luxury but in limited numbers? What happened to Caliban? __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

03-07-2007, 02:18 PM	#6
brownjenkins Advocatus Diaboli Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Reality Posts: 3,767	Dan Simmons does have a forum at his website that might help. I'm pretty sure he only intended to write those two books though. He's one of those writers that likes to leave a good few loose ends for people to mull over. __________________ Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.

03-07-2007, 03:36 PM	#7
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Thanks, Jenkins, I'll give his site a peruse. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

03-03-2009, 01:48 AM	#8
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	I read both of them. I enjoyed the Morvecs (sp) and Achilles and Hector slaying gods. However, I was disappointed as a whole. It was like a movie with REALLY poor editing. FAR too many unanswered questions and simply TOO much stuff. An art film premise but a B movie outcome. There was a quote about the Voynix being connected to the Voynix text but it does not say how. AE __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

05-12-2010, 01:03 AM	#12
sumansameer Sapling Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1	It's a line from a Celtic poem, Cad Goddeu ("Battle of the Trees"), originally translated by Robert Graves, and literally transcribed into Sanskrit. The line goes, "Under the tongue root a fight most dread, and another raging, behind, in the head."

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