Favorite Elf-King? - Page 2

Lightice · 01-15-2002, 09:24 AM

Elu Thingol. In his later days, he seemed to be most righteous king in Arda. In the beginning he was a bit mean, though.
And those dwarves weren't nice people at all...Killing the king first, and then telling to their families at home, that elves stole their treasure!

***Earniel*** · 01-15-2002, 10:21 AM

I would go for Turgon. I absolutely loved the idea of Gondolin, being hidden somewhere in the mountains.

Foul_Dwimmerlaik · 01-15-2002, 02:20 PM

Feanor...if you can get past all the Kinslaying and dooming his people to misery stuff.

Butterburr · 01-15-2002, 07:34 PM

A tie between Turgon and Finrod Felagund

Butterburr · 01-15-2002, 07:36 PM

btw, dosen't almost everyone except hobbits look down on dwarfs?

afro-elf · 01-15-2002, 07:49 PM

OUCH!

Elvellon · 01-16-2002, 06:29 PM

Finrod Felagund

Wayfarer · 01-16-2002, 08:12 PM

That Felagund character has always been a favorite of mine as well.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 01-16-2002, 09:59 PM

Very good choice.

Michael Martinez · 01-16-2002, 10:23 PM

Poor Gil-galad doesn't seem to be very popular at all. I will cast a vote for him.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 01-16-2002, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Michael Martinez
Poor Gil-galad doesn't seem to be very popular at all. I will cast a vote for him.

Yeah, he ws a good guy. If I could only keep track of all his dads.

Michael Martinez · 01-16-2002, 10:45 PM

He IS sort of the Heimdall (nine mothers) of Middle-earth, is he not?

afro-elf · 01-16-2002, 10:52 PM

He( GIL) would be my second and Findrod my third.

As stated Fingolfin is my first. I guess I'm a sucker for the heroic end.

***Earniel*** · 01-17-2002, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Yeah, he ws a good guy. If I could only keep track of all his dads.

DADS? As in plural? Is this just another thing Tolkien never had the time to straighten out or do I really don't want to know this?

bropous · 01-17-2002, 12:04 PM

I guess my favorite of the elven Kings would be Fingolfin. I really was won over when, seeing that the Noldor would be defeated, Fingolfin rode across the An-Fauglith to the Gates of Angbad and blew his horn, challenging Morgoth to single combat.

Although he died in the ensuing melee, the fact he had just had enough of the Great Enemy butchering his people and went to finally "face his demons," as it were, calling Morgoth on the steps of his own fortress "craven" and a "coward", makes Fingolfin an elf after me own heart. Fingolfin may not have shown a lot of sense in riding off to challenge the greatest and most powerful of the Valar in mortal one-on-one combat, the fact he did not blanch or quail in the face of a much mightier opponent makes him, for me, my favorite Elf-King.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 01-17-2002, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eärniel

DADS? As in plural? Is this just another thing Tolkien never had the time to straighten out or do I really don't want to know this?

Well, this is the professor changing his mind again. There are several versions of Gil-galads parentage. The Sil. says Fingon was his father. There was a point I believe, (not positive) that Finrod Felagund was his father, and then the final version is that Orodreth is his father, but then the parentage of Orodreth changed aswell and he is now Finrod Felagunds nephew instead of his brother, being now the son of Angrod.

D'ya get all that?

bropous · 01-17-2002, 12:31 PM

Hmmmm, SisterGoldenHair, I wasn't aware there was confusion as to either Gil-Galad's [Ereinion's] or Orodoreth's lineage. I just refer to the genealogical chart in the back of the Silmarillion [page 379, "The House of Finwe and the Noldorin descent of Elrond and Elros"] for reference. There it lists Gil-Galad/Ereinion as Fingon's son, and Orodreth as Finarfin's son. Also in the Index of Names, this lineage is repeated. However, I am curious: Do you recall perhaps where it might have been indicated otherwise?

By the way, Foul_Dwimmerlaik: A belated "Welcome to the Moot!"

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 01-17-2002, 12:41 PM

Most of this appears in the HoMe. some of it in Morgoth's Ring. Inoldonil can probably tell you exactly where. One interesting point is that in Unfinished Tales the brothers of Galadriel are listed excluding Orodreth.

bropous · 01-17-2002, 01:29 PM

Ah, I see, SisterGoldenHair. But this brings up an old question: If it says one thing in The Silmarillion, and another in the History of Middle-Earth, which one is "right," or maybe more precisely, which is "more correct"? Do we simply say it's inconsistent and not really answerable, or is one considered more reliable than the other. I don't really know.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 01-17-2002, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bropous
Ah, I see, SisterGoldenHair. But this brings up an old question: If it says one thing in The Silmarillion, and another in the History of Middle-Earth, which one is "right," or maybe more precisely, which is "more correct"? Do we simply say it's inconsistent and not really answerable, or is one considered more reliable than the other. I don't really know.

The final version is most likely the way Tolkien meant it to be, unless he was planning more changes and did not live to make them. As for which version is correct, I guess it's a matter of what's correct for you. I have always leaned towards the version in the Sil, since it was the first one and out of the text I grew to love. So, no version is right or wrong. Of course, it is my understanding that the parentage of Orodreth in the Sil. was an error on the part of CT and that Tolkien had never intended him to be the son of Finarfin. How accurate this is, I do not know.

01-15-2002, 07:49 PM	#26
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	OUCH! __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

01-16-2002, 06:29 PM	#27
Elvellon Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Lindon Posts: 637	Finrod Felagund __________________ **************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion

01-16-2002, 08:12 PM	#28
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	That Felagund character has always been a favorite of mine as well. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

01-16-2002, 10:23 PM	#30
Michael Martinez Elven Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 892	Poor Gil-galad doesn't seem to be very popular at all. I will cast a vote for him. __________________ http://www.xenite.org/faqs/lotr_movie/ http://www.michael-martinez.com/ http://www.merp.com/essays/MichaelMartinez/

01-16-2002, 10:45 PM	#32
Michael Martinez Elven Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 892	He IS sort of the Heimdall (nine mothers) of Middle-earth, is he not? __________________ http://www.xenite.org/faqs/lotr_movie/ http://www.michael-martinez.com/ http://www.merp.com/essays/MichaelMartinez/

01-15-2002, 09:24 AM	#21
Lightice Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 192	Elu Thingol. In his later days, he seemed to be most righteous king in Arda. In the beginning he was a bit mean, though. And those dwarves weren't nice people at all...Killing the king first, and then telling to their families at home, that elves stole their treasure!

01-15-2002, 10:21 AM	#22
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	I would go for Turgon. I absolutely loved the idea of Gondolin, being hidden somewhere in the mountains.

01-15-2002, 02:20 PM	#23
Foul_Dwimmerlaik Enting Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 76	Feanor...if you can get past all the Kinslaying and dooming his people to misery stuff.

01-15-2002, 07:34 PM	#24
Butterburr Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 31	A tie between Turgon and Finrod Felagund

01-15-2002, 07:36 PM	#25
Butterburr Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 31	btw, dosen't almost everyone except hobbits look down on dwarfs?

01-16-2002, 09:59 PM	#29
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	Very good choice.

01-16-2002, 10:52 PM	#33
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	He( GIL) would be my second and Findrod my third. As stated Fingolfin is my first. I guess I'm a sucker for the heroic end. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

01-17-2002, 12:04 PM	#35
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	I guess my favorite of the elven Kings would be Fingolfin. I really was won over when, seeing that the Noldor would be defeated, Fingolfin rode across the An-Fauglith to the Gates of Angbad and blew his horn, challenging Morgoth to single combat. Although he died in the ensuing melee, the fact he had just had enough of the Great Enemy butchering his people and went to finally "face his demons," as it were, calling Morgoth on the steps of his own fortress "craven" and a "coward", makes Fingolfin an elf after me own heart. Fingolfin may not have shown a lot of sense in riding off to challenge the greatest and most powerful of the Valar in mortal one-on-one combat, the fact he did not blanch or quail in the face of a much mightier opponent makes him, for me, my favorite Elf-King. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160. Last edited by bropous : 03-05-2002 at 12:49 PM.

01-17-2002, 12:31 PM	#37
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Hmmmm, SisterGoldenHair, I wasn't aware there was confusion as to either Gil-Galad's [Ereinion's] or Orodoreth's lineage. I just refer to the genealogical chart in the back of the Silmarillion [page 379, "The House of Finwe and the Noldorin descent of Elrond and Elros"] for reference. There it lists Gil-Galad/Ereinion as Fingon's son, and Orodreth as Finarfin's son. Also in the Index of Names, this lineage is repeated. However, I am curious: Do you recall perhaps where it might have been indicated otherwise? By the way, Foul_Dwimmerlaik: A belated "Welcome to the Moot!" __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

01-17-2002, 12:41 PM	#38
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	Most of this appears in the HoMe. some of it in Morgoth's Ring. Inoldonil can probably tell you exactly where. One interesting point is that in Unfinished Tales the brothers of Galadriel are listed excluding Orodreth.

01-17-2002, 01:29 PM	#39
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Ah, I see, SisterGoldenHair. But this brings up an old question: If it says one thing in The Silmarillion, and another in the History of Middle-Earth, which one is "right," or maybe more precisely, which is "more correct"? Do we simply say it's inconsistent and not really answerable, or is one considered more reliable than the other. I don't really know. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

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