Hobbit Questions

ArwenEvenstar · 01-14-2004, 02:33 PM

I was rereading the Hobbit last night and I read a couple of lines that have confused me.

Question # 1:

Quote:

Not the fellow who used to tell such wonderful tales at parties, about dragons and goblins and giants and the rescue of princesses and the unexpected luck of widows sons?

Was there any dynasties around that had princesses that needed rescuing? Or were they just stories that Gandalf (well, Tolkien really) made up?

Question # 2:

Quote:

. . ." not without a mighty Warrior, even a Hero. I tried to find one; but warriors are busy fighting one another in distant lands. . .

Was there actually any battles going on at that time? Or was it just Tolkien writing that becasue it was his first book and he didn't bother writing anymore about them?

***Valandil*** · 01-14-2004, 02:46 PM

I don't think Tolkien had thought out The Third Age at all when he wrote 'The Hobbit' - or even had any idea that there'd BE a 'Third Age'. He just made use of some of the things he had already created (Gondolin, Elrond, etc.) It could probably be explained away though. There'd be thousands of years to have opportunity for rescuing of princesses... and maybe there was enough strife going on along Gondor's borders - or maybe in distant lands beyond the areas we see on the maps in LOTR...??

Dúnedain · 01-14-2004, 05:29 PM

Actually I think he did have thoughts of other things going on, because remember wasn't his "first" story actually "The Fall of Gondolin", which was all basically about Tuor. Granted this wasn't published before the Hobbit, but he was telling it to people in 1916-17 and stuff...

ArwenEvenstar · 01-14-2004, 06:54 PM

I forgot about the fall of Gondolin, I am so dumb sometimes

About the fighting around Gondor, would they really be princesses or would it be really rich, pretty females?

Thorin II · 01-14-2004, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ArwenEvenstar
About the fighting around Gondor, would they really be princesses or would it be really rich, pretty females?

Semantics.

I think JRRT has his general histories in mind when he refers to this stuff, but I don't think he is talking about any particular princesses or battles.

Ulmo · 01-16-2004, 11:04 AM

Idril and Aredhel could be applied here (and Luthien if you try hard enough, heh...) though it's obvious that Tolkien wasn't pointing out anything specifically. The Lord of the Rings hadn't even been considered, but the world of The Hobbit was already being linked to the world of The Silmarillion. Gondolin seems the best fit, as previously stated - especially since Tolkien referred to Gondolin a number of times because of Glamdring and Orcrist.

Elrond -

Quote:

These are not troll-make. They are old swords, very old swords of the High Elves of the West, my kin. They were made in Gondolin for the Goblin-wars.

***Valandil*** · 01-16-2004, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ArwenEvenstar
About the fighting around Gondor, would they really be princesses or would it be really rich, pretty females?

I was trying to answer both questions separately. Just guessing that maybe heroes would be currently (at that time) fighting maybe around Gondor...

While there could have been any number of 'princess rescues' in the course of history before that time - whether princesses of Gondolin, Gondor, Rohan, Arnor, Arthedain, Cardolan, Rhudaur, etc.

Just trying to 'cover' for JRRT!

Ulmo · 01-16-2004, 03:19 PM

The White Council was moving against Sauron's reappearance in Dol Guldur around this time - could've been what he was referring to (in retrospect).

ArwenEvenstar · 01-16-2004, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Valandil
While there could have been any number of 'princess rescues' in the course of history before that time - whether princesses of Gondolin, Gondor, Rohan, Arnor, Arthedain, Cardolan, Rhudaur, etc.
Just trying to 'cover' for JRRT!

Gondolin? GONDOLIN?! That place was gone before, I think, Hobbits even exsisted(sp).

***Valandil*** · 01-16-2004, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ArwenEvenstar
Gondolin? GONDOLIN?! That place was gone before, I think, Hobbits even exsisted(sp).

Yeah - but Gandalf could probably still tell stories about it!

Although actually, I don't know if the princess there ever needed particular rescuing... I had just seen Gondolin mentioned a few times in this thread and assumed it was about this - but I checked and I guess it wasn't... silly me!

Spock · 01-16-2004, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ArwenEvenstar

Question # 1:

Was there any dynasties around that had princesses that needed rescuing? Or were they just stories that Gandalf (well, Tolkien really) made up? CONSIDER THAT MIDDLE EARTH WAS apart from the Wide World and therefore there was much going on that was not a concern of Hobbits or anyone near the Shire. Gandalf had traveled far and long and so knew of these places and their peoples.

Question # 2:

Was there actually any battles going on at that time? Or was it just Tolkien writing that becasue it was his first book and he didn't bother writing anymore about them? [/B]

AGAIN THERE WAS EVIL in the world at large but remember the world didn't pay attention or even know about the Shire. So yes there could have been battles being fought out there.

Spock · 01-16-2004, 05:10 PM

Hero's existed outside of the known world of the Hobbits and although some of them became Hero's they knew of none in their time. Gandalf did but as he said they were all engaged in other battles at the time and so he had to turn to the Hobbits.

***Fat middle*** · 01-17-2004, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ulmo
Idril and Aredhel could be applied here (and Luthien if you try hard enough, heh...)

You can add Finduilas, Túrin tried to rescue her, but he didn't succeed.

ArwenEvenstar · 01-17-2004, 10:53 PM

Ya, I guess you guys are right, but the dwarves would know more about that stuff too (about the heros . . .) 'cause they would be doing a lot of traveling.

They wouldn't really be refered to as princesses would they, as far as I know Luthien was the only real princess, but Gandalf would probably dumb it down for the Hobbits.

Ulmo · 01-18-2004, 01:34 AM

Aredhel was the daughter of King Fingolfin; Idril was the daughter of King Turgon...that's why I listed them. Princesses.

ArwenEvenstar · 01-18-2004, 04:57 PM

whoops I forgot that. I really need to reread the Sil. I feel so stupid! ! !

01-14-2004, 05:29 PM	#3
Dúnedain High King of Númenórë Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Númenórë <--United States of America Posts: 1,947	Actually I think he did have thoughts of other things going on, because remember wasn't his "first" story actually "The Fall of Gondolin", which was all basically about Tuor. Granted this wasn't published before the Hobbit, but he was telling it to people in 1916-17 and stuff... __________________ 'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen

01-14-2004, 06:54 PM	#4
ArwenEvenstar Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: and why do YOU want to know? Posts: 685	I forgot about the fall of Gondolin, I am so dumb sometimes About the fighting around Gondor, would they really be princesses or would it be really rich, pretty females? __________________ The only thing active about me is my imagination!

01-16-2004, 03:19 PM	#8
Ulmo Enting Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Valinor Posts: 76	The White Council was moving against Sauron's reappearance in Dol Guldur around this time - could've been what he was referring to (in retrospect). __________________ 'Legolas' on The Barrow-Downs ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

01-16-2004, 05:10 PM	#12
Spock An enigma in a conundrum Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 6,476	Hero's existed outside of the known world of the Hobbits and although some of them became Hero's they knew of none in their time. Gandalf did but as he said they were all engaged in other battles at the time and so he had to turn to the Hobbits. __________________ Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

01-17-2004, 10:53 PM	#14
ArwenEvenstar Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: and why do YOU want to know? Posts: 685	Ya, I guess you guys are right, but the dwarves would know more about that stuff too (about the heros . . .) 'cause they would be doing a lot of traveling. They wouldn't really be refered to as princesses would they, as far as I know Luthien was the only real princess, but Gandalf would probably dumb it down for the Hobbits. __________________ The only thing active about me is my imagination!

01-14-2004, 02:46 PM	#2
*Valandil* High King at Annuminas Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Wyoming - USA Posts: 10,752	I don't think Tolkien had thought out The Third Age at all when he wrote 'The Hobbit' - or even had any idea that there'd BE a 'Third Age'. He just made use of some of the things he had already created (Gondolin, Elrond, etc.) It could probably be explained away though. There'd be thousands of years to have opportunity for rescuing of princesses... and maybe there was enough strife going on along Gondor's borders - or maybe in distant lands beyond the areas we see on the maps in LOTR...??

01-18-2004, 01:34 AM	#15
Ulmo Enting Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Valinor Posts: 76	Aredhel was the daughter of King Fingolfin; Idril was the daughter of King Turgon...that's why I listed them. Princesses. __________________ 'Legolas' on The Barrow-Downs ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

01-18-2004, 04:57 PM	#16
ArwenEvenstar Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: and why do YOU want to know? Posts: 685	whoops I forgot that. I really need to reread the Sil. I feel so stupid! ! ! __________________ The only thing active about me is my imagination!

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