The Bard of Avon

[Menelvagor]

I took a tour of a recreation Black Friar's Theatre in Virginia, and they used what they called paraphrasing, lyrically rewriting the words so that their accessable to the general public but still verbose and true to what Sharkespeare wanted it to sound like.

[Carafin]

my apologies WW (perhaps some anger management courses )
I think I may have spoken to hastily and not clearly enough after I posted that I went and got out my copies of Shakespears plays and read some and I still found the footnotes helpful(though some were unnecessary)but I take back what I said about summaries, it is compromising his work. However there should always be illustrated versions and suchlike for young children.

Willow you should try just reading it out loud in your room.I find it helps (just make sure there is no-one around )

btw congrats on your 100th post me too!!

[Starr Polish]

I love Shakespeare, but I have absolutely nothing against footnotes. Most of the reading is extremely archaic, and the intelligence of American adolescents is on a steady decline.

Romeo and Juliet is a ninth grade level play, and still only about 1/3 of my class understood what was going on, even with footnotes. I mean, come on, half of my class didn't even know that wherefore meant "why", and not "where are".

[Tanoliel]

Starr, many of the ninth grade students are just plain STUPID when it comes to literature. Which I bemoan greatly, of course...and then I want to go hit them over the head!
*breathe*
This is NOT the Venting Thread. Control yourself, Tano.

Willow--Macbeth and My Fair Lady? I suppose that could me Lady M... eating Fritos....*grin*

As for the translating thing--well-done retellings for childrens books is fine by me, as most young children don't have the patience to sit through "real" Bill (Shakespeare). However, simply reading "translations" to understand the play...well...at the moment I can't think of an instance where I can accept the validity of that.
Because you want to know what happens? Read the play!
Because you want to say you read it? Read the play!
Because you want to appear cultured and "Shakespearian"? Read the PLAY! (and so on...)
Footnotes are a nice thing. However, if you're performing a play, you don't need footnotes if you have a dramaturg. *beams proudly* (I am currently fulfilling the role of dramaturg for a youth production of Twelfth Night...WiseWizard is the assistant director). You can ask them about any words you don't understand, though I would agree with EG that lots of them you can understand in context. However, if you're performing, there is no excuse for not knowing exactly what your lines mean. Dramaturg. Director. Refrence section in the local library. And if it's ambiguous, get as close as you can, try and figure it out, and then make it up.

Okay. I'm done rambling on that subject for now...

-tano

[WiseWizard]

Go Tano.
The thing which really got me angry about R&J in ninth grade was that our class had to listen to it on tape. Same with Macbeth in 10th! What's the point unless there's someone in the class who can't read? Then again, there are those people who read Shakespeare like it wasn't even English they were reading. They look at 'whence' and 'whetstone' and 'wherefore' (hm....those all start with 'whe'....) and nearly have a heart attack.
So, I'd say that footnotes are a good thing even if they're mostly being wasted by people who will never want to hear the name of Shakespeare again.

[osszie]

I was disapointed

the middle english was ok......but what disapointed me was that I knew most of the stories already

Shakespear, great as he was, has influeced so much work that upon reading him I had come upon the tales so many times in the past albeit unwittingly

[WiseWizard]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on. Are you saying that you were disappointed with the Bard? You're free to have your own opinions, but watch that fellow mooters suddenly turn on you.
Sure there are a few of Shakespeare's plays that have been told over and over in different ways, but that doesn't mean that everything he did was copied.
So exactly what plays did you read and/or see that bring you to this false conclusion?

[osszie]

hmm.......was I disapointed with shakespears work?

Of course not........there is very little written at that time to compare his work against.

I mostly read the plays from which he drew inspiration from myth and legend.......Midsummer Nights dream.......The Tempest. And of course the obligitory Hamlet, R&J, Macbeth etc.

My point was that although great works these are.........the tales are soo accessable that reading the original work is a bit of a let down as I knew each twist and turn before I read the actual words

hmm maybe I will return to read Shakespears other works

Any suggestions to some of the less copied works?

[Tanoliel]

Osszie: There are very few original plots around anymore. The point is either fantastic twists and turns in the plot, or stupendous prose and verse. I'd say Shakespeare, though slightly deficient on the former, had the latter down to an art. Most of the joy of reading Shakespeare for me is not the "story," as I know most of it already. It is to read and hear the words that he wrote, which are to me far more important than the plot they describe.
Try reading Titus Andronicus...it's almost a farce, and a lot of people die! Or, if you want comedy...hmmm...I'll get back to you on that one.
-tano

[osszie]

Yes.........I think u have a very good point there Tanoliel.

Maybe I would perfer to see Shakespeare performed rather than read the actual plays.

I think hearing the lines as they should be spoken, as a opposed to my own readings, might raise my appreciation slightly

[Tanoliel]

Thank you. It's true, seeing the plays is often better than reading them.
-tano

[WiseWizard]

And acting in them is even better then seeing them.

[Willow Oran]

And acting in them is even better then seeing them.

I'll drink to that! If not for acting I'd probably still be deprived of the wonder that is true Shakespearian writing.

[Hrothgar]

I love Shakespeare, the English equivalent of Homer. (I am English so please excuse the grandstanding).

My favourite plays would have to be Macbeth and Henry V, and maybe Richard III. The king's soliliquay in Henry V is just so stirring and the scene in which Henry goes about the camp in disguise took me straight back to the Iliad.

You're right of course about people struggling with the English, I was amazed that my fellow Classics students had trouble with the KJ bible! This is Uni for the love of Jove!

Oh for a Muse of Fire......

adieu

[Tanoliel]

Aha! Another devotee to the wonderful works of the Bard!
(I am SUCH a Shakespeare nerd....)
I love Macbeth....My Lady Mac scene was one of the funnest I've ever done. Yes, I'm aware that "funnest" is not a word. I don't care. It should be.
I prefer comedies in general, myself, though...

[WiseWizard]

In about a week I'll be in a class where we get to choose any part from any of Shakespeare's plays and we get to act it out (as long as other people agree to fill up the other parts in a scene). I've already picked out Henry V (agreed on the speech, Hrothgar), Richard III, Puck, possibly Ariel (which was originally meant by Shakespeare to be a male part, despite popular belief) or maybe I'll revive good ol Prospero. The list goes on.
And Tano, you Lady M scene was also one of the funnest scenes to watch in that play. Though, I think were enjoying that slap a little too much..... And the Fritos capped it off.

[Tanoliel]

Ha! Can't wait for that class.
Another example of my nerdness (although not as much, since many people know Hamlet):
Today in photography, when our teacher was showing how to roll negatives onto the developing spool, she said, "see? There is a rhythm to this madness." And I instantly say: "Method."
I don't think she heard me though...
My friend (another S. nerd) and I constantly quote Twelfth Night when she has to go somewhere...the "farewell, dear heart" bit between Toby and Feste.
Nerds....
btw, WW, I was thinking Beatrice and Benedict, as another possiblity.
-tano

[WiseWizard]

I annoy my friends by quoting entire plays (or at least, as much as i can before they gag me).
And please tell me you don't use squeaky voices when you're singing that. I am scarred for life (actually only my eardrums are scarred) thanks to Frances and her soprano voice.
Beatrice and Benedict, eh? Possibly.....
I also just thought up Titus Andronicus. And Hamlet.
(I'm not addicted to playing insane people....really!)
OR EVEN IAGO!!!
How can anyone say no to the embodyments of pure evil?

[crickhollow]

Originally posted by Tanoliel
Aha! Another devotee to the wonderful works of the Bard!
(I am SUCH a Shakespeare nerd....)
I love Macbeth....My Lady Mac scene was one of the funnest I've ever done. Yes, I'm aware that "funnest" is not a word. I don't care. It should be.
I prefer comedies in general, myself, though...

i am no actor, and I know it. But if I could play one role in my lifetime, it would be Lady Macbeth...

We just finished King Lear in my Major authors class, and next week we move on to Twelfth Night

[Dunadan]

Hello

I see that some folks think you have to see the play performed to really appreciate it, and I thought I'd ask what others think of that.

Having been forced to plough through the plays at school, I would never choose to read Shakespeare for recreation. However, when you see a really good performance, the meaning and context of the plays are raised to a whole new level.

For this reason, I think summaries are good. It releases you from following the plot (if you haven't studied the play) and opens up your mind to the Bard's real genius. Subtle meanings and asides; massive themes drawn like a renaissance fresco in a single sentence; his words are like pebbles tossed into a pool, sending ripples through your mind. Seeing the same play is never the same experience twice.

Also, there's an indispensible element of audience participation in a lot of the plays, such as A Midsummer Night's Dream. They were intended to play to the hoi polloi standing in the pit in front of the stage, as much as to the great and the good in the galleries.

cheers

d.