Why Did Elros Choose A Mortal Life?

[ItalianLegolas]

As many of you probably know, Elrond had a twin brother named Elros, they were known as the 'Half-Elven' because their father Earendil the Mariner was the son of Tuor(a man of the line of Huor) and Idril Cebrindal(an elfen Princess, the daughter of Turgon), and the twins mother was Elwing (the Grandaughter of Luthien and Beren). As you also might know, the Half-Elven were given the choice to be either mortal of Elfen because of thier blood, Elrond obviously chose an Elfen life-span, but Elros chose to be mortal and went on to be the first King of Numenor. So the question is....WHY?

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Well it is said that Earendiel's heart was always among men, and he only chose to be elven (not elfen! ) so he could live forever as a star of Varda. Maybe this was true for Elros (apart from he did live with men and choose the mortal life.)

[Valandil]

Keep in mind that not EVERYONE wants to be an Elf!

Don't know if JRRT really went into WHY Elros made the choice he did, but we could ask the inverse question of Elrond. Why did HE choose to be an Elf?

Maybe the choice was given to them because Eru knew that they would make contrary choices, and that both kindreds would thus be enhanced - the Elves by Elrond, and Men by Elros.

[Elemmírë]

There are many arguments that could be made. Why did Luthien accept the offer of mortality? Obviously for love. Is something similar so impossible?

Of course, that's just conjecture.

Originally Posted by Valandil

Keep in mind that not EVERYONE wants to be an Elf!

Don't know if JRRT really went into WHY Elros made the choice he did, but we could ask the inverse question of Elrond. Why did HE choose to be an Elf?

In many ways, Humans seem to have a better fate than Elves. One could argue who is truly immortal. As Finrod says in the Athrabeth concerning the inevitable end of Arda and of the Eldar,

But the end will come. That we all know. And then we must die; we must perish utterly, it seems, for we belong to Arda (in hröa and fëa. And beyond that what? "The going out to no return," as you say; "the uttermost end, the irremediable loss"?

Death was not called 'The Gift of Men' for no reason.

Is it so strange that Elros might have preferred this to the suffering of the Noldor...?

btw, Valandil, how's the Athrabeth coming?

[Artanis]

I agree with Elemmire, I think we shall remember that death was Iluvatar's gift to Men.

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Elemmire

btw, Valandil, how's the Athrabeth coming?

Gotta split real soon (from work... not another thread! )!

Will try to say something in that thread tomorrow...

[Elemmírë]

Originally Posted by Valandil

Gotta split real soon (from work... not another thread! )!

Will try to say something in that thread tomorrow...

Hm. So... you get paid for this? That's like my mom... She used to spend half her day at work on a forum... Completely obsessed. It was quite funny (a college forum ). Don't know what ever happened with that.

Gyaa... nothing more to add...

Sorry for the OT.

[Manveru]

maybe Elros chose to be a man so he could become the king of numenor...

[ItalianLegolas]

Were Elros and Elrond even Noldorian???

oh yeah... he was, nevermind

[ItalianLegolas]

Originally Posted by Elemmire

Death was not called 'The Gift of Men' for no reason.

Is it so strange that Elros might have preferred this to the suffering of the Noldor...?

okay the orignal post was wrong so i changed it

[Wayfarer]

*twitch*

*twitchtwitch*

*twitchtwitchtwitch*

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

[Nurvingiel]

What's the matter Wayfarer? You seem to be having a conniption fit over there. I think this thread is interesting.

Sadly, other than pointing out that I have always wondered this too, (and poking fun at you ) I have nothing useful to add.

[Elemmírë]

Originally Posted by ItalianLegolas

Possibly, but Elrond was not really affected by the struggles of the Noldor, except perhaps in the last book, when Arwen is dying

You do realise that Elrond and Elros were raised by Maglor, son of Fëanor, after the Fëanorians attacked Sirion and the peredhil's mother, Elwing, through herself into the sea...?

So... they lost their parents (Eärendil and Elwing) due to the struggles of the Noldor, and then their foster-father Maglor as well...

Is "dying" the right term to use? As much as any other mortal, perhaps, but do we consider a human in their prime of life to be "dying"?

Hehe, this could be it's own debate, I think...

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

*twitch*

*twitchtwitch*

*twitchtwitchtwitch*

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

You okay, Wayfarer?

[Wayfarer]

*hiss* *spit*

He said 'in the last book, when Arwen is dying'!!!!.

*slaver* *menace* *menace*

[Elemmírë]

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

*hiss* *spit*

He said 'in the last book, when Arwen is dying'!!!!.

*slaver* *menace* *menace*

Down, boy!

I thought that was what it was about...

ItalianLegolas... Arwen's not really dying. That's just a senseless Jackson addition...

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Originally Posted by Elemmire

Is "dying" the right term to use? As much as any other mortal, perhaps, but do we consider a human in their prime of life to be "dying"?

By elves, I think so. Compared to elves, humans don't live long at all, most never reach one elven year (144 years to us) so it is possible that when a human reaches an age that for them is still a long tme until their death, the elves can perhaps see them starting to fade.

Not true for Arwen in the books tho!

[Wayfarer]

Err... There's no such thing as an 'elven year', TD. Elves use the same years as humans do (rather, Humans borrowed the measurements of the elves), which are based on the transit of the sun and moon across the sky. The idea of an 'elven year being 144 human years' comes from somebody mistakenly translating the elvish word for 'a period of 144 years' as 'one year'. It's not really.

I imagine that it would be possible to see a human fading as they neared death - but remember that in Middle Earth, especially among the Numenoreans, the ideal was that a person would stay healthy and energetic until their time was up and they could lay down their life. Certainly I don't think that's a state that could realistically be considered 'dying'.

[Nurvingiel]

But the concept of yen is in the appendicies. I always thought it meant 144 years felt to an Elf as 1 year does to us. That doesn't necessarily mean we measure time differently, but I imagine mortals and immortals would have a different concept of time.

[Pytt]

I guess so. an immortal would not have the same concept of time as mortals. maybe from day to day, but when speaking of centurys, decades and more, the immortal would not think time has passed, in the way a mortal would.

[Wayfarer]

Right, Pytt. Perhaps I should clarify exactly what I was nitpicking: Elves would conceive the idea of time differently from humans - immortality or even long life nescessitates a somewhat different outlook than mortality does. But they would not percieve its passage any differently.

This distinction is certainly splitting hairs (even for me ), but it's nescessary to counter the all-too-frequent assumption that elves somehow experience existance more slowly than humans. That is false - elves experience time the same way that humans do (which is a large part of the reason they constantly attempted to halt it in places like Rivendell and Lorien), they simply have a longer adult lifespan and so experience more of it. A 144 year old elf would expereince the same duration that a human would if they lived the same time - there's nothing qualitatively different between the way humans and elves (and Maiar, and Valar, and Rodents) experience the passag of time.