Middle Earth Map

Dark Lord Sauron · 12-31-2002, 06:18 PM

Right now I am trying to come up with an accurate map of Middle Earth that shows both political and geographical booundries. So far the best map I have come up is this:
http://www.geocities.com/saurondestroys/
I added a line there to show the boundries of Gondor at the start of The Fellowship of the Ring.
Besides needing to add mountains, the kingdom of Gondor obviously needs some modifications. The map above shows where Gondor is to be cut off, but I am not entirely sure where those corners go to. Do they become independent nations? Are they incorporated into the nations around them? This is all I know so far.
http://www.geocities.com/saurondestroys2/index.htm
Umbar, of course, goes to the Corsairs, whom are either allies or part of the Harad. I need to know which, because it is either an independent country or it isn't. The region to the north of that, Harondor, between the two rivers, is also unclear. The Encyclopedia of Arda only states that Gondor's hold on this region was "debatable at best". What I did was give the northern third of the region to Gondor, and then the rest to the Corsairs and the Harad.
The only thing I know for certain is that Mordor expands to the West. Of course, it has controlled Minas Morgol for over a millenia, but I do not know how close to Osgiliath Mordor actually was when Frodo was given the Ring. Also, Mordor apperantly expanded to the North, since the Encyclopedia of Arda mentions that the Nazgul were sent to take parts of Mirkwood. However, the location of these parts was not mentioned, and the location of Mirkwood itself I am unaware of. It only states that Mirkwood is part of Rhovanion, but that does not help because Rhovanion is such a large region. However, Gondor seems to be directly in between Rhovanion and Mordor, suggesting that either Mordor became two seperate regions in Middle Earth, or that Sauron also took that part of Gondor.
This is all that I even have and idea of what happened to Gondor in it's decline. I imagine that the large bulge to the North, Dagorlad, was separated from Gondor, as well as the far West, Dunland. However, this is based on my long held assumption that Gondor is relatively small. This assumption is based on the maps in the actual Lord of the Rings books, which show Gondor as surrounded by mountains, giving it the appearance of being small. It is altogether possible, however, that Gondor retained these areas.
It is my guess, however, that the North was taken by either the Harad, Mordor, or the Rhun. I am almost certain that the Eastern portion of that section fell prey to Mordor or the Rhun. The Western part I have no idea of. Since it is surrrounded by few enemies, it would seem logical that this place remained part of Gondor. However, the Encyclopedia mentions that Gondor abandoned Umbar, in order to shift troops over to this region. This would suggest that there was a major enemy over in this area. Also, Gondor was in a general state of decline and civil strife for much of the Third Age, so it is possible that they abandoned this region as well, to consolidate control in central Gondor. It would also not surprise me if several small regions, such as Dol Amroth, popped up as a few vassals realized that Gondor would be unable to prosecute them in the general upheaval.
It is likely that much of the rest of Northwestern Middle Earth remained pretty much the same, with a few insignificant border shifts. Thranduil's Realm, however, is in question. This is the home of the Wood-Elves, but they seem to dwell in part of Mirkwood, which Sauron also later took part of. Did Mordor invade Thranduil's Realm, or did he order the Rhun to take part of the kingdom? Or was Dol Guldur not even part of this realm?
Of course, Moria might have shrunk a little, or maybe it grew, as the dwarves did continue to mine until they met the Balrog, and the trolls invaded. This had to have happened after the time of the original map. The remnants of Arnor, as well as Lindon, probably stayed the same, although there also may have been some decline. The Forodwraith do not seem to be allied with Sauron, but that does not mean that they were not teritorilly aggressive.
If you can directly answer any or all of my questions, or know of a site that can, your help would be greatly appreciated.

Laurelyn · 12-31-2002, 06:40 PM

Hmm. My computer won't load those. It flashed a message that looked like "hi you suck" and then went blank.
I knew my computer was plotting against me. Now it's insulting me, too!

But unfortunately I'm not real good with maps. Good luck, Dark Lord Sauron.

Blackboar · 12-31-2002, 06:51 PM

It did the same to me too!!

*Starts hitting computer*

Coney · 12-31-2002, 07:03 PM

Edit: ...

Laurelyn · 12-31-2002, 07:35 PM

*After waiting for virus-check gimmick to run*
All clear!

Must be my computer being evil, then. *bashes computer with anvil*
*busts hole in computer*
Oops . . .
*1 roll of Duct Tape later* All better!

markedel · 12-31-2002, 07:54 PM

Hmm well the only time Gondor has her boundaries fully laid out is at 1050, at her height. Mirkwood would be then under the rule of Gondorian allies, Harad a tributary. Arnor divided into three. Lorien would still be Lorien. Mordor would technically be under Gondorian control-but desolate. Most of the westof middle-earth as at least nominally under numenorian control. By the time of LOTR Gondor controls the area labeled Gondor, Rohan technically the area between Isen and Anduin. Saruman controls Isenguard and Dunland (which was always autonomous, if not independant). Mordor controls Ithilien, and indeed all of the area east of anduin as far as Southern Mirkwood (which is controlled by mordor via Dol Guldur). THaranduil and Lorien remain, but Dale is threatened by mordor allies. Harad and the corsairs rule the south, south gondor is as said "debatable," Enedwaith and Minheraith, and all of Eriador is empty but for rivendell, the shire, lindon and perhaps the angle (which could be argued to be the center of the rangers).

Dark Lord Sauron · 12-31-2002, 09:02 PM

All the previous maps are fixed and are viewable.

OK, markedel the Numenor part I don't get since most of them are dead, but if I interpreted the rest accuratly Middle Earth in III 3318 looks like this:
http://www.geocities.com/saurondestr...auronrules.htm

I just didnt think that Mordor controlled so much. Obviously, the Nazgul took over parts of Mirkwood, but I assumed that this was not incorporated into Mordor. Rather, it was set up to be some sort of colony, or something. Also, I do not believe that Mordor would have directly taken over that much of Gondor. Of course, this is the fault of the Tolkein maps, which make Mordor look isolated inside all the mountains surrounding it, but I still don't think Sauron would have taken over so much of Gondor without a large responce from the Stewards.

If you could give me a source, that would be fine.

Eothain · 01-10-2003, 04:34 PM

My pc would not load it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Elf.Freak · 01-11-2003, 05:17 AM

it worked for me...for those who couldn't load it, it was very blue/purple!

Dark Lord Sauron · 01-12-2003, 11:55 PM

But was it accurate, Elf Freak?

Eothain: let me see... the file is 54000 bytes, so if it needs to be smaller, I will need help in getting rid of bytes.

12-31-2002, 06:18 PM	#1
Dark Lord Sauron Hobbit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Barad-Dur Posts: 26	Middle Earth Map Right now I am trying to come up with an accurate map of Middle Earth that shows both political and geographical booundries. So far the best map I have come up is this: http://www.geocities.com/saurondestroys/ I added a line there to show the boundries of Gondor at the start of The Fellowship of the Ring. Besides needing to add mountains, the kingdom of Gondor obviously needs some modifications. The map above shows where Gondor is to be cut off, but I am not entirely sure where those corners go to. Do they become independent nations? Are they incorporated into the nations around them? This is all I know so far. http://www.geocities.com/saurondestroys2/index.htm Umbar, of course, goes to the Corsairs, whom are either allies or part of the Harad. I need to know which, because it is either an independent country or it isn't. The region to the north of that, Harondor, between the two rivers, is also unclear. The Encyclopedia of Arda only states that Gondor's hold on this region was "debatable at best". What I did was give the northern third of the region to Gondor, and then the rest to the Corsairs and the Harad. The only thing I know for certain is that Mordor expands to the West. Of course, it has controlled Minas Morgol for over a millenia, but I do not know how close to Osgiliath Mordor actually was when Frodo was given the Ring. Also, Mordor apperantly expanded to the North, since the Encyclopedia of Arda mentions that the Nazgul were sent to take parts of Mirkwood. However, the location of these parts was not mentioned, and the location of Mirkwood itself I am unaware of. It only states that Mirkwood is part of Rhovanion, but that does not help because Rhovanion is such a large region. However, Gondor seems to be directly in between Rhovanion and Mordor, suggesting that either Mordor became two seperate regions in Middle Earth, or that Sauron also took that part of Gondor. This is all that I even have and idea of what happened to Gondor in it's decline. I imagine that the large bulge to the North, Dagorlad, was separated from Gondor, as well as the far West, Dunland. However, this is based on my long held assumption that Gondor is relatively small. This assumption is based on the maps in the actual Lord of the Rings books, which show Gondor as surrounded by mountains, giving it the appearance of being small. It is altogether possible, however, that Gondor retained these areas. It is my guess, however, that the North was taken by either the Harad, Mordor, or the Rhun. I am almost certain that the Eastern portion of that section fell prey to Mordor or the Rhun. The Western part I have no idea of. Since it is surrrounded by few enemies, it would seem logical that this place remained part of Gondor. However, the Encyclopedia mentions that Gondor abandoned Umbar, in order to shift troops over to this region. This would suggest that there was a major enemy over in this area. Also, Gondor was in a general state of decline and civil strife for much of the Third Age, so it is possible that they abandoned this region as well, to consolidate control in central Gondor. It would also not surprise me if several small regions, such as Dol Amroth, popped up as a few vassals realized that Gondor would be unable to prosecute them in the general upheaval. It is likely that much of the rest of Northwestern Middle Earth remained pretty much the same, with a few insignificant border shifts. Thranduil's Realm, however, is in question. This is the home of the Wood-Elves, but they seem to dwell in part of Mirkwood, which Sauron also later took part of. Did Mordor invade Thranduil's Realm, or did he order the Rhun to take part of the kingdom? Or was Dol Guldur not even part of this realm? Of course, Moria might have shrunk a little, or maybe it grew, as the dwarves did continue to mine until they met the Balrog, and the trolls invaded. This had to have happened after the time of the original map. The remnants of Arnor, as well as Lindon, probably stayed the same, although there also may have been some decline. The Forodwraith do not seem to be allied with Sauron, but that does not mean that they were not teritorilly aggressive. If you can directly answer any or all of my questions, or know of a site that can, your help would be greatly appreciated.

12-31-2002, 06:40 PM	#2
Laurelyn Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Valinor, right next to Telperion . . . what did you expect, Michigan? Posts: 1,315	Hmm. My computer won't load those. It flashed a message that looked like "hi you suck" and then went blank. I knew my computer was plotting against me. Now it's insulting me, too! But unfortunately I'm not real good with maps. Good luck, Dark Lord Sauron. __________________ The Third Age of Entmoot has begun. Angel of music, guide and guardian! Grant to me your glory! The country I eat and spend the day in is by no means the country I sleep and dream in. Define patriotism. Hold the boat, you spastic monkey! ~ Elenka

12-31-2002, 07:03 PM	#4
Coney The Buddy Rabbit Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Trapped in the headlights.. Posts: 3,372	Edit: ... __________________ Blessed are the cracked, they let the light in Beatallica Last edited by Coney : 12-31-2002 at 08:25 PM.

12-31-2002, 07:35 PM	#5
Laurelyn Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Valinor, right next to Telperion . . . what did you expect, Michigan? Posts: 1,315	After waiting for virus-check gimmick to run All clear! Must be my computer being evil, then. bashes computer with anvil busts hole in computer Oops . . . 1 roll of Duct Tape later All better! __________________ The Third Age of Entmoot has begun. Angel of music, guide and guardian! Grant to me your glory! The country I eat and spend the day in is by no means the country I sleep and dream in. Define patriotism. Hold the boat, you spastic monkey! ~ Elenka

12-31-2002, 07:54 PM	#6
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	Hmm well the only time Gondor has her boundaries fully laid out is at 1050, at her height. Mirkwood would be then under the rule of Gondorian allies, Harad a tributary. Arnor divided into three. Lorien would still be Lorien. Mordor would technically be under Gondorian control-but desolate. Most of the westof middle-earth as at least nominally under numenorian control. By the time of LOTR Gondor controls the area labeled Gondor, Rohan technically the area between Isen and Anduin. Saruman controls Isenguard and Dunland (which was always autonomous, if not independant). Mordor controls Ithilien, and indeed all of the area east of anduin as far as Southern Mirkwood (which is controlled by mordor via Dol Guldur). THaranduil and Lorien remain, but Dale is threatened by mordor allies. Harad and the corsairs rule the south, south gondor is as said "debatable," Enedwaith and Minheraith, and all of Eriador is empty but for rivendell, the shire, lindon and perhaps the angle (which could be argued to be the center of the rangers). __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

12-31-2002, 06:51 PM	#3
Blackboar Legolas's beloved sister and Queen of the Wood Elves of Mirkwood Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Under the hill at Bag-end, Hobbiton the Shire Or Rivendell,I can't remember!!!!!!!!!! Posts: 1,086	It did the same to me too!! Starts hitting computer

12-31-2002, 09:02 PM	#7
Dark Lord Sauron Hobbit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Barad-Dur Posts: 26	All the previous maps are fixed and are viewable. OK, markedel the Numenor part I don't get since most of them are dead, but if I interpreted the rest accuratly Middle Earth in III 3318 looks like this: http://www.geocities.com/saurondestr...auronrules.htm I just didnt think that Mordor controlled so much. Obviously, the Nazgul took over parts of Mirkwood, but I assumed that this was not incorporated into Mordor. Rather, it was set up to be some sort of colony, or something. Also, I do not believe that Mordor would have directly taken over that much of Gondor. Of course, this is the fault of the Tolkein maps, which make Mordor look isolated inside all the mountains surrounding it, but I still don't think Sauron would have taken over so much of Gondor without a large responce from the Stewards. If you could give me a source, that would be fine. Last edited by Dark Lord Sauron : 01-04-2003 at 05:50 PM.

01-10-2003, 04:34 PM	#8
Eothain Enting Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 73	LOTR My pc would not load it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! __________________ Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing? Where is the hand on the harpsting, and the red fire glowing? Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing? They have past like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow; The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow. Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning, or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning? Frodo lives

01-11-2003, 05:17 AM	#9
Elf.Freak Orli's lil fan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sugar World/Orlando Bloom Cloud Posts: 464	it worked for me...for those who couldn't load it, it was very blue/purple! __________________ >>--elven arrow--> ~ Give a man a fish and he'll feed for a day, give me a fish and you'll only get it back! ~ I've gotta new avatar! looks kinda like me...anime style! ~ LOST: Orlando Bloom. If found, please send him straight to Elf.Freak

01-12-2003, 11:55 PM	#10
Dark Lord Sauron Hobbit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Barad-Dur Posts: 26	But was it accurate, Elf Freak? Eothain: let me see... the file is 54000 bytes, so if it needs to be smaller, I will need help in getting rid of bytes.

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