Sir Gawain and the Green knight

[Beregond]

On one of the other threads someone meantioned the story of Sir Gawain and the green Knight does anybody know who he is or what the stary is about

[brownjenkins]

Sir Gawain

[Insidious Rex]

It was a medieval romance with rather complex mythological undertones. It was an attempt to use pre-christian archetypes incorporated into a "new" christian world to make commentary about faith, nobility, bravery, honesty, chastity and temptation. It uses classic archetypes like the female as the seducer which is a common theme in both christian and pre christian traditions. It also incorporates the very pre-christian notion of the immortality of plant based nature and the spiritual importance of the hunt while weaving it together within the purely medieval framework of The Quest.

Umm… hope that helped…

[inked]

Beregrond,

There is a translation by Tolkien with introduction and notes that may help. It is found in the collections of works by Tolkien and usually references another translation of his PEARL.

[ItalianLegolas]

its a knights of the round table sort of thing, and i inked, you took the words right out of my mouth

[Nurvingiel]

Discuss Arthurian legends here!

[Lenya]

I've only heard it mentioned in connection to Tolkien so I thought he wrote it. Who did write it?

[Valandil]

*calls for moving truck*

*loads thread*

*moves to appropriate forum*

[Khamûl]

Originally Posted by Lenya

I've only heard it mentioned in connection to Tolkien so I thought he wrote it. Who did write it?

We don't know. Whoever wrote it also wrote a poem called "The Pearl" (if I'm remembering World Lit I correctly), so the poet is known as "The Gawain Poet" or "The Pearl Poet".

[Nurvingiel]

Wasn't it originally written in Welsh? Tolkien is among many translators of this verse, and probably the best known.

Vaaaal, merge with the Athurian Legends thread pleeeease. *whines*


IIRC this is the oldest Arthurian Legend known to date. Odd that Arthur himself is barely in it - only the beginning and the end. (Though he is a bit of a catalyst by insisting that someone go on an adventure.)

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Vaaaal, merge with the Athurian Legends thread pleeeease. *whines*

Nah... this is special in that there's a Tolkien-component. So I'll keep it separate.

[Rían]

I plowed thru it (the Tolkien version) but it's pretty thick ... some good, some bad, but didn't really grab me.

Originally Posted by IRex

It was a medieval romance with rather complex mythological undertones. It was an attempt to use pre-christian archetypes incorporated into a "new" christian world to make commentary about faith, nobility, bravery, honesty, chastity and temptation. It uses classic archetypes like the female as the seducer which is a common theme in both christian and pre christian traditions. It also incorporates the very pre-christian notion of the immortality of plant based nature and the spiritual importance of the hunt while weaving it together within the purely medieval framework of The Quest.

Oh my GOD, IRex, all you do is yak about christianity!

[Nurvingiel]

Alright... if you insist Val...

Ri, here's a great retelling of this legend, by Gerald Morris.

A Squire, His Knight, and His Lady is a sequel to A Squire's Tale.

They are completely brilliant, great for all ages.

EDIT: It's "A Squire, His Knight, and His Lady" that's the retelling of "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight".

[inked]

Currently available:

Sir Gawain and the Green Knight/Pearl/Sir Orfeo by Ballantine Books with Preface by Christopher Tolkien. The Introduction, translations, and notes are by JRRT as best constructed and available. I highly recommend this for Tolkien fans as it gives insight into the translator's professional life and interests and the works themselves are enjoyable and thought-provoking.

I have wondered at the association of the Green Knight and the entity known as "the Green Man" in pre-Christian Britain. Can any enlighten me on a connection or lack thereof?

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Oh my GOD, IRex, all you do is yak about christianity!

well theres very few agnostic medieval romances that would allow me to babble on and on about the wonderfulness of agnosticism. And anyway the mingling of early christianity with pagan beliefs to make a sort of proto-christian literature stew is always interesting to explore.

Originally Posted by inked

I have wondered at the association of the Green Knight and the entity known as "the Green Man" in pre-Christian Britain. Can any enlighten me on a connection or lack thereof?

From what I understand the archetype is very familiar if not one in the same. Not that the green knight is exclusively the embodiment of the classic celtic green man figure but that he embodies some of the aspects of the more generic ideal. Specifically the fact that you can cut his head off and he grows right back. Obvious symbolism there. And theres countless myths from all cultures involving death and rebirth of a human figure representing the life cycle of plants. This probably dates back to the very genesis of the domesticating of agriculture.

But in this tale we see a merging of this ancient pagan green man figure with the chivalrous noble god centered ideal of medieval knighthood. A strange combination to us now but perhaps the perfect transitionary vehicle for telling the message the poet wants to tell. And we are chance witnesses to this moment of transition.

[inked]

IR,

Thanks for the info. Would you give consideration to the idea (very Tolkienish) that Christianity was in the process of subsuming by fulfillment the pagan mythologies? In its baldest and boldest form it asserts that the pagan illuminations understood by the falling of the Light onto pagan minds was gathered back from prismatic refraction into the Light of the World, Christ Jesus, and the true Source of Illumination revealed to be the Logos. the contention of both Lewis and Tolkien was that was the case, which is why they so willingly and well use the mythologies.

And, I acknowlege the great, insuperable difficulty of an agnostic finding a romance satisfactory to their purposes!

[Khamûl]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Wasn't it originally written in Welsh? Tolkien is among many translators of this verse, and probably the best known.

My world lit book says that it was composed somewhere in the northwest midlands of England, near present-day Birmingham. Would that make it more likely to be in Welsh? I want to think that my professor said that it was written in either Old or Middle English.

[Lenya]

Originally Posted by Khamûl

We don't know. Whoever wrote it also wrote a poem called "The Pearl" (if I'm remembering World Lit I correctly), so the poet is known as "The Gawain Poet" or "The Pearl Poet".

Cool, maybe I should read it. Thanx.

[sun-star]

Originally Posted by Khamûl

My world lit book says that it was composed somewhere in the northwest midlands of England, near present-day Birmingham. Would that make it more likely to be in Welsh? I want to think that my professor said that it was written in either Old or Middle English.

It was written in Middle English. They don't speak Welsh in Birmingham, and I don't think they did in the 14th century either

I keep meaning to read it (Tolkien's version of course) but I have too much Old English at the moment...

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by inked

I have wondered at the association of the Green Knight and the entity known as "the Green Man" in pre-Christian Britain. Can any enlighten me on a connection or lack thereof?

IIRC these two individuals are one and the same.