The Gladden Fields - Isildur's luckiest battle

Keith K · 11-19-2003, 09:56 PM

What do y'all think about Isildur's demise at the Gladden Fields? Is that not the luckiest death in all of these histories? Imagine Isildur making it home to set up his kingdom bearing the ring! How long could he have resisted its evil? I suggest he was already falling under its spell since he refused to cast it into the fire that was at hand. It would have changed him very quickly as he ruled as the High King of a united realm. The line of Isildur would have become accursed and the civil war of the Kin-strife would have been as childs play to the revolution that would have eventually occured as those Dunedain who would resist evil banded together against their brothers. Fortunately he was High King for only a short while and died before he could cause irreparable harm to his family. That must be the luckiest death in all of Middle Earth!

Tuor of Gondolin · 11-19-2003, 11:17 PM

The conclusion above about Isuldur's "timely?" demise seems highly probable, but there is an interesting entry touching on Isuldur's growing awareness of the Ring's power and how he might have dealt with it, had he not been killed:

Unfinished Tales, The Disaster Of The Gladden Fields

Quote:

Elendur went to his father, who was standing dark and alone, as if lost in thought. "Atarinya," he said, "what of the power that would cow these foul creatures and command them to obey you? Is it then of no avail?"
"Alas, it is not, senya. I cannot use it. I dread the pain of touching it. And I have not yet found the strength to bend it to my will. It needs one greater than I now know myself to be. My pride has fallen. It should go to the Keepers of the Three."

In this version there is at least the possibility that Isildur would have consulted with the Wise, and presumably also a slight chance he would have reconsidered destroying the Ring. If he hadn't, might not a Gondor and elvish alliance have formed against him?

Keith K · 11-19-2003, 11:28 PM

Yes, that is what I was thinking. A North vs. South and those type of wars have a modern history for bloodiness. I had forgotten the passage you quoted from Unfinished Tales but I instantly remembered it. Without a doubt he was not under any evil spells at that point in time. Perhaps the Ring merely serves to cloud your judgement in the early stages of its domination. For dominate it will eventually. (Even for those who may have greater strength than Men, such as Wizards and Elves).

Dúnedain · 11-19-2003, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith K
(Even for those who may have greater strength than Men, such as Wizards and Elves).

The Wizards weren't around then...They came to the scene around year 1000 of the Third Age, which was just about a 1000 years after the Disaster of the Gladden Fields...

Keith K · 11-20-2003, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dúnedain
The Wizards weren't around then...

While what you say is true it has nothing to do with the point I was making concerning the power of Men to resist the rings evil compared to other races.

Dúnedain · 11-20-2003, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith K
While what you say is true it has nothing to do with the point I was making concerning the power of Men to resist the rings evil compared to other races.

lol I know, just wanted to bust your balls

Keith K · 11-20-2003, 02:12 AM

Ever the pain in my side eh Dunedain?

Always pointing out the technicalities...lol (you're going to have a field day picking apart my geometry riddle when the answer becomes known).

***Valandil*** · 11-20-2003, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith K
you're going to have a field day picking apart my geometry riddle when the answer becomes known

Makes me wonder if you're thinking you should just quietly let that geometry riddle drop out of sight??

PS: I only say that because I STILL can't make sense of it!

Keith K · 11-20-2003, 02:54 PM

Ha Ha, stick that tongue out all you like! I intend to repost that riddle on each new page until one of y'all solves it!

Sween · 11-20-2003, 03:18 PM

As has been said before there is more than one power in this world! Isildur was ment to fail and be destroyed in the same way the ring was ment to pass out of all knoledge! Nothing ever happens by pure chance in middle earth

Keith K · 11-20-2003, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sween
As has been said before there is more than one power in this world! Isildur was ment to fail and be destroyed in the same way the ring was ment to pass out of all knoledge! Nothing ever happens by pure chance in middle earth

But that leaves us no room for debate!

matthew · 11-21-2003, 02:38 PM

It was fated to happen.

Anyway, if Isildur hadn't died, he still couldn't have used the Ring.
The elves would have deafeted him and destroyed the Ring.
( I always hated Isildur anyway. I was glad to see him go notwithstanding this silly "ring" business.

THE SILMARILLION'S BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dúnedain · 11-21-2003, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by matthew
It was fated to happen.

Anyway, if Isildur hadn't died, he still couldn't have used the Ring.
The elves would have deafeted him and destroyed the Ring.
( I always hated Isildur anyway. I was glad to see him go notwithstanding this silly "ring" business.

THE SILMARILLION'S BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I too always hated Isildur until I read The Disaster of the Gladden Fields in Unfinished Tales. You learn a lot more about his character in that story and his bond with his sons. You also find out that he knows that he is not strong enough to use it, thereby saying he needs to talk to those who possess the three.

***Valandil*** · 11-21-2003, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dúnedain
I too always hated Isildur until I read The Disaster of the Gladden Fields in Unfinished Tales. You learn a lot more about his character in that story and his bond with his sons. You also find out that he knows that he is not strong enough to use it, thereby saying he needs to talk to those who possess the three.

I think Isildur also comes off as heroic in "Akallabeth" (did I spell it right?) - esp when he snuck in to take the fruit from the white tree of Numenor!

I never really 'hated' him - he's just presented as a 'flawed hero' compared to his father Elendil... more of a 'perfect hero'...

'Sides... he was my namesake's daddy!

Sween · 11-22-2003, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Valandil
I think Isildur also comes off as heroic in "Akallabeth" (did I spell it right?) - esp when he snuck in to take the fruit from the white tree of Numenor! I never really 'hated' him - he's just presented as a 'flawed hero' compared to his father Elendil... more of a 'perfect hero'...

'Sides... he was my namesake's daddy!

Yes but Elrond never had the one ring in his hand so you cannot judge them really

Keith K · 11-22-2003, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sween
Yes but Elrond never had the one ring in his hand so you cannot judge them really

Not positive, but didn't Elrond handle it when it came to Rivendell?

***Valandil*** · 11-22-2003, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sween
Yes but Elrond never had the one ring in his hand so you cannot judge them really

Did you mean Elendil?

Sween · 11-23-2003, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith K
Not positive, but didn't Elrond handle it when it came to Rivendell?

Hell no that would be very unwise! In the book Elrond like the rest of the council get a brief glance at the ring by Frodo before he puts it away again

Keith K · 11-23-2003, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sween
Hell no that would be very unwise! In the book Elrond like the rest of the council get a brief glance at the ring by Frodo before he puts it away again

I wonder who put it on a chain around his neck? Sam? Gandalf? I'm not saying it was Elrond, but somebody had to put it there.

Artanis · 11-23-2003, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith K
I wonder who put it on a chain around his neck? Sam? Gandalf? I'm not saying it was Elrond, but somebody had to put it there.

Good question. Never thought of that before. You're right, the Ring was put on a new chain in Rivendell. Likely by one of the Elves, after Gandalf's instructions.

11-19-2003, 09:56 PM	#1
Keith K Elf Lord Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: charlotte, n.c. Posts: 1,081	The Gladden Fields - Isildur's luckiest battle What do y'all think about Isildur's demise at the Gladden Fields? Is that not the luckiest death in all of these histories? Imagine Isildur making it home to set up his kingdom bearing the ring! How long could he have resisted its evil? I suggest he was already falling under its spell since he refused to cast it into the fire that was at hand. It would have changed him very quickly as he ruled as the High King of a united realm. The line of Isildur would have become accursed and the civil war of the Kin-strife would have been as childs play to the revolution that would have eventually occured as those Dunedain who would resist evil banded together against their brothers. Fortunately he was High King for only a short while and died before he could cause irreparable harm to his family. That must be the luckiest death in all of Middle Earth!

11-20-2003, 02:12 AM	#7
Keith K Elf Lord Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: charlotte, n.c. Posts: 1,081	Ever the pain in my side eh Dunedain? Always pointing out the technicalities...lol (you're going to have a field day picking apart my geometry riddle when the answer becomes known). Last edited by Keith K : 11-20-2003 at 02:15 AM.

11-20-2003, 03:18 PM	#10
Sween im quite stupid Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cockermouth Posts: 2,058	As has been said before there is more than one power in this world! Isildur was ment to fail and be destroyed in the same way the ring was ment to pass out of all knoledge! Nothing ever happens by pure chance in middle earth __________________ Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot

11-21-2003, 02:38 PM	#12
matthew Enting Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 75	It was fated to happen. Anyway, if Isildur hadn't died, he still couldn't have used the Ring. The elves would have deafeted him and destroyed the Ring. ( I always hated Isildur anyway. I was glad to see him go notwithstanding this silly "ring" business. THE SILMARILLION'S BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! __________________ Nai anar caluva tierelyanna Flame me. Go ahead. Matthew in 2028. One by one we're bringing them back. Vote Nader. Stop the hamster eaters!!!! End global warming! Turn on the AC!!! Gadzooks! Run!

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
One Thousand and One Knights	hectorberlioz	General Messages	160	04-06-2007 04:03 AM
Biggs at the Pelennor Fields	Fat middle	Lord of the Rings Books	28	05-21-2000 07:36 PM

11-19-2003, 11:28 PM	#3
Keith K Elf Lord Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: charlotte, n.c. Posts: 1,081	Yes, that is what I was thinking. A North vs. South and those type of wars have a modern history for bloodiness. I had forgotten the passage you quoted from Unfinished Tales but I instantly remembered it. Without a doubt he was not under any evil spells at that point in time. Perhaps the Ring merely serves to cloud your judgement in the early stages of its domination. For dominate it will eventually. (Even for those who may have greater strength than Men, such as Wizards and Elves).

11-20-2003, 02:54 PM	#9
Keith K Elf Lord Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: charlotte, n.c. Posts: 1,081	Ha Ha, stick that tongue out all you like! I intend to repost that riddle on each new page until one of y'all solves it!