William Shakespeare - Page 5

sun-star · 01-30-2005, 09:51 AM

I'm going to see A Comedy of Errors on Thursday, which I'm really looking forward to, so I need to try and read it before then...

Mercutio · 01-30-2005, 01:10 PM

Has anyone seen the new Merchant of Venice movie?

sun-star · 01-30-2005, 01:42 PM

Yes! I thought it was very good.

***Fat middle*** · 01-30-2005, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercutio

Has anyone seen the new Merchant of Venice movie?

Hadn't heard about it...

Can anybody post more details about the movie? director, cast...

It's a difficult movie to be made these days. Let's see how they deal with the antisemitic plot. And let's see if they make an homosexual Antonio or not

Mercutio · 01-30-2005, 03:19 PM

apparently they did...a little at least...

Sun-star-- it was rated "R" in the U.S. for "some nudity." How bad/not bad was it? My mom want's to go see it and I think her reaction from that rating would be..."um never mind."

the Philadelphia newspaper gave it a 3.5 out of 4 (3.5-4s are rare for them).

Quote:

A 'Merchant' of fine measure

Carrie Rickey
Philadelphia Inquirer
Published: Friday, January 28, 2005

At the molten core of Michael Radford's superb The Merchant of Venice is the stooped figure of Al Pacino's Shylock, whose guttural eloquence is an insufficient defense against religious persecution.

For those unfamiliar with this most morally challenging of Shakespeare's plays, Shylock is a Jewish moneylender stewing over Christian hypocrisy. Venetians such as Antonio (Jeremy Irons) have no scruples about borrowing money from the loan shark. But they spit upon Shylock even as they accept his golden ducats.

And so the moneylender contrives elaborate revenge: If Antonio defaults, Shylock will extract from him a pound of flesh - payback for the abuse heaped upon him by the so-called merciful Christians of Venice.

Given its caricatured figure of the money-grubbing Jew, for the last two centuries the debate about the play has run roughly along these lines: Merchant of Venice, Jewish tragedy or Christian comedy? Shylock, villain or victim?

In their crisp and lucid interpretation Radford and Pacino answer: Yes, yes, yes, YES.

For Shakespeare, who in all probability never met a Jew in an England where Catholics were routinely put to death, Shylock was a homunculus with a money bag for a heart. As Pacino plays it with Old Testament beard and wrath, if his character's heart is a bottomless well of festering fury, it is the cumulative effect of the poisonous stabs from the likes of Antonio.

Yet for all of Shylock's rage, Shakespeare scholars call Merchant a comedy. Because? The Bard devotes roughly half the story to Shylock's feud with Antonio, the other half to the courtship of Portia (Lynn Collins) by Bassanio (Joseph Fiennes), whose friend (and perhaps lover?) Antonio borrowed from Shylock to bankroll the younger man's fortune-hunt. If the play were a modern human, it probably would be diagnosed as bipolar. But the old-master painters (Caravaggio and Velasquez) whom Radford quotes extensively (and humorously) had another word for such startling play of brightness and shadow: chiaroscuro.

In Radford's perceptive adaptation, condensed to less than 21/2 hours and shot in the Venice of murky canals and marbled palazzos, the leaden darkness surrounding Shylock intensifies the golden light haloing Portia - and vice versa. The metallurgical metaphor is intentional, Radford mining the meaning in scenes in which the extrinsic glow of gold blinds characters to the intrinsic qualities of what lies beneath. If Shylock is obsessed with his golden ducats, so, too was Portia's late father, who devised a test for her husband-to-be that involves caskets of lead, silver and gold.

The Shylock tragedy and the Portia comedy converge in the famous courtroom scene in which Portia, disguised as a male lawyer, entreats the moneylender to show mercy to Antonio. Pacino's ferocious Shylock argues that a contract is a contract, the emotional subtext being that since he has been so grievously wronged, revenge must be right. Collins' formidable Portia appeals to Shylock's better self, entreating him to show mercy even though she shows him none.

Collins, who at the eleventh hour replaced a pregnant Cate Blanchett, is an actress of extraordinary gifts and Botticelli radiance. In what is, unbelievably, the first English-language film of Merchant since the silent era, Collins and Pacino plumb the depths of acting, of Shakespeare, of the difference between law and justice. Radford brings the themes of the movie to life by highlighting Shakespeare's language and his imagery.

Mrs.Gimli · 01-30-2005, 04:01 PM

Thats funny PippenTook becouse I watched HAMLET last night.I have read the unabriged version

sun-star · 01-31-2005, 08:42 AM

Cast list and details
here

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercutio

Sun-star-- it was rated "R" in the U.S. for "some nudity." How bad/not bad was it? My mom want's to go see it and I think her reaction from that rating would be..."um never mind."

As I recall, there's one rather gratuitous scene in a brothel, but that's all, and I'm sure it's nothing you haven't seen before

It was only rated a PG in the UK, I think.

The anti-Semitism was dealt with fairly well - it's there in the play, there's not much you can do about it. Al Pacino and Jeremy Irons were both excellent. Unlike the reviewer above, I thought the actress who played Portia lacked gravitas, and was the most unconvincing boy I've ever seen! The section at the end about the rings dragged on a bit, but apart from that it didn't seem like a long film. The settings (Venice and Belmont) were stunning, and there were lots of interesting details and enjoyable little moments such as Portia's different suitors choosing between the caskets. Definitely recommended.

sun-star · 02-11-2005, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sun-star

I'm going to see A Comedy of Errors on Thursday, which I'm really looking forward to, so I need to try and read it before then...

It turned out to be excellent. I'm not crazy about the Shakespeare comedies where everyone dresses up as someone else and there are twins getting mixed up and whatever, so I wasn't sure I would like this... since it has two pairs of identical twins. They've never met each other, and when they turn up in the same city they keep being mistaken for each other, including by one of the twins' wife. Sounds terrible but is actually really funny and it was a great production too.

Count Comfect · 02-11-2005, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sun-star

I'm not crazy about the Shakespeare comedies where everyone dresses up as someone else and there are twins getting mixed up and whatever,

Isn't that all of them?

I mean, the man milked those 2 devices (disguise and twins) soooooo much...

sun-star · 02-12-2005, 07:15 AM

Oh, I know! The Elizabethan sense of humour must have been very strange

Count Comfect · 02-13-2005, 09:36 PM

It's all just ripoffs of Plautus and Italian theater - so I guess ALL old senses of humour must have been very strange

ethuiliel · 02-18-2005, 12:20 AM

Lets see...

I've seen the version of Hamlet that my sisters class put on.
I read Julius Ceasar for school last year.
I'm reading Macbeth in English now.
I've seen the movie of... some play by Shakespeare, I can't remember which right now.
I've seen a "Complete Works of Shakespeare [abridged]" play that someone in my youth group's school put on, but it basically skimmed by all the plays without going into detail, so it hardly counts other than giving you an idea of what the VERY basic plot is of each.

I feel like I've read at least something else by Shakespeare, but I can't think of anything else. I know I know the plot of Romeo and Juliet (who doesn't?) but I can't remember if I've read it or not.

One of my classmates is really obsessed with Shakespeare.

Count Comfect · 02-18-2005, 01:18 AM

Complete Works of Shakespeare [abridged] is a great play. Although, as you say, it skims. And is inaccurate. But funny.

sun-star · 02-18-2005, 04:08 PM

I think I've said this before... if not in this thread then in the other Shakespeare one. Anyway, I like their abridged Hamlet

Count Comfect · 02-18-2005, 04:55 PM

Oob!

Tanoliel (she's on here occasionally) and I were in that once. It was amazingly fun.

We're reading/watching versions of Richard III in one of my Shakespeare classes right now. Does anyone have anything insightful to say about Act 4 scene 2 (when Richard orders the Princes in the tower killed)? I have to write an essay on it

Last Child of Ungoliant · 04-22-2005, 06:02 PM

there is a new production of Julius up west at the moment, Ralph Fiennes is in it
bit of a modernisation i think, so that could be interesting

my favourite play by old billy boy is the scottish play

Adonai Dragonwagon · 04-23-2005, 02:49 AM

I saw the Merchant of Venice movie. It was really quite good, although I would have thought that it was rated 'R' because of the intensity of the court room scene. I think they just threw the nudity in there to date the movie, and make it more realistic, but it probably would have been rated 'R' anyway.
I thought the last scene was interesting; the one where Jessica is watching the guys shooting arrows from boats, and she has a ring on her finger. That means that the tale of her being an ungrateful child was false; she kept her mother's ring, as well as most of the money.
My parents and I got into a lengthy discussion about that, actually, since it seemed to be mostly Jessica's fault that Shylock insisted on his bond. At first, it was just a threat, a reminder to Antonio that he was a human being. But then, he wanted revenge.
So we were wondering; who wanted Shylock to go crazy? Or even, Who wanted Antonio dead?

Ah, the Complete Works of Shakespeare [Abriged!]. I love them. Because they are really accurate, if you read deep enough and have enough familiarity with the plays.

Oh, yeah, I've read most of Shakespeare's plays, whether on my own or through school, and I've seen quite a few of them, too.

Jabberwock · 07-18-2005, 02:31 PM

I saw Taming of the Shrew last summer in Cedar City Utah and the Shakespeare festival. It was incredible. That being said, I am not a huge Shakespeare fan. I think my aversion goes back to a graduate class in university where we were forced to read more than 20 of the plays and a good 60-70 critical texts on the plays just for one credit. I hated that course, but it was my only option.
My interest in Shakespeare now lies in his use of and massive influence on the English language. I'm a hobby linguist, so Shakespeare is constantly popping up in my studies and its all good.

Lotesse · 07-18-2005, 04:05 PM

The Merchant of Venice the movie is a pile of crap. An agonizing, horrible pile of crap, a slap in Shakespeare's face. Crap.

Mercutio · 07-18-2005, 04:52 PM

We are going to see "Love's Labours Lost" in a couple weeks at the Delaware Shakespeare Festival.

01-30-2005, 09:51 AM	#81
sun-star Lady of Letters Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England Posts: 2,476	I'm going to see A Comedy of Errors on Thursday, which I'm really looking forward to, so I need to try and read it before then... __________________ And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool.

01-30-2005, 01:10 PM	#82
Mercutio Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Narnia Posts: 1,656	Has anyone seen the new Merchant of Venice movie? __________________ Mike nodded. A sombre nod. The nod Napoleon might have given if somebody had met him in 1812 and said, "So, you're back from Moscow, eh?". Interested in C.S. Lewis? Visit the forum dedicated to one of Tolkien's greatest contemporaries.

01-30-2005, 01:42 PM	#83
sun-star Lady of Letters Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England Posts: 2,476	Yes! I thought it was very good. __________________ And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool.

02-12-2005, 07:15 AM	#90
sun-star Lady of Letters Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England Posts: 2,476	Oh, I know! The Elizabethan sense of humour must have been very strange __________________ And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool.

02-13-2005, 09:36 PM	#91
Count Comfect Word Santa Claus Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,922	It's all just ripoffs of Plautus and Italian theater - so I guess ALL old senses of humour must have been very strange __________________ Sufficient to have stood, yet free to fall.

01-30-2005, 04:01 PM	#86
Mrs.Gimli Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 39	Thats funny PippenTook becouse I watched HAMLET last night.I have read the unabriged version

02-18-2005, 12:20 AM	#92
ethuiliel Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: USA until I find a way to get to Middle Earth Posts: 681	Lets see... I've seen the version of Hamlet that my sisters class put on. I read Julius Ceasar for school last year. I'm reading Macbeth in English now. I've seen the movie of... some play by Shakespeare, I can't remember which right now. I've seen a "Complete Works of Shakespeare [abridged]" play that someone in my youth group's school put on, but it basically skimmed by all the plays without going into detail, so it hardly counts other than giving you an idea of what the VERY basic plot is of each. I feel like I've read at least something else by Shakespeare, but I can't think of anything else. I know I know the plot of Romeo and Juliet (who doesn't?) but I can't remember if I've read it or not. One of my classmates is really obsessed with Shakespeare. __________________ "...but I love not the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend: the city of the Men of Numenor." "'I would,' said Faramir. And he took her in his arms and kissed her under the sunlit sky, and he cared not that they stood high upon the walls in the sight of many. And many indeed saw them and the light that shone about them as they came down from the walls and went hand in hand to the Houses of Healing."

02-18-2005, 01:18 AM	#93
Count Comfect Word Santa Claus Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,922	Complete Works of Shakespeare [abridged] is a great play. Although, as you say, it skims. And is inaccurate. But funny. __________________ Sufficient to have stood, yet free to fall.

02-18-2005, 04:08 PM	#94
sun-star Lady of Letters Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England Posts: 2,476	I think I've said this before... if not in this thread then in the other Shakespeare one. Anyway, I like their abridged Hamlet

02-18-2005, 04:55 PM	#95
Count Comfect Word Santa Claus Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,922	Oob! Tanoliel (she's on here occasionally) and I were in that once. It was amazingly fun. We're reading/watching versions of Richard III in one of my Shakespeare classes right now. Does anyone have anything insightful to say about Act 4 scene 2 (when Richard orders the Princes in the tower killed)? I have to write an essay on it __________________ Sufficient to have stood, yet free to fall.

04-22-2005, 06:02 PM	#96
Last Child of Ungoliant The Intermittent One Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: here and there Posts: 4,671	there is a new production of Julius up west at the moment, Ralph Fiennes is in it bit of a modernisation i think, so that could be interesting my favourite play by old billy boy is the scottish play

04-23-2005, 02:49 AM	#97
Adonai Dragonwagon Hobbit Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: If you ever want to find me, look in the clouds. I'll probably be there. Posts: 28	I saw the Merchant of Venice movie. It was really quite good, although I would have thought that it was rated 'R' because of the intensity of the court room scene. I think they just threw the nudity in there to date the movie, and make it more realistic, but it probably would have been rated 'R' anyway. I thought the last scene was interesting; the one where Jessica is watching the guys shooting arrows from boats, and she has a ring on her finger. That means that the tale of her being an ungrateful child was false; she kept her mother's ring, as well as most of the money. My parents and I got into a lengthy discussion about that, actually, since it seemed to be mostly Jessica's fault that Shylock insisted on his bond. At first, it was just a threat, a reminder to Antonio that he was a human being. But then, he wanted revenge. So we were wondering; who wanted Shylock to go crazy? Or even, Who wanted Antonio dead? Ah, the Complete Works of Shakespeare [Abriged!]. I love them. Because they are really accurate, if you read deep enough and have enough familiarity with the plays. Oh, yeah, I've read most of Shakespeare's plays, whether on my own or through school, and I've seen quite a few of them, too. __________________ "The world is held together with sheets of paper!" -A very wise person. Me! Although I'm not really wise. Too bad.

07-18-2005, 02:31 PM	#98
Jabberwock Enting Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Canadian temporarily in USA. Posts: 55	... I saw Taming of the Shrew last summer in Cedar City Utah and the Shakespeare festival. It was incredible. That being said, I am not a huge Shakespeare fan. I think my aversion goes back to a graduate class in university where we were forced to read more than 20 of the plays and a good 60-70 critical texts on the plays just for one credit. I hated that course, but it was my only option. My interest in Shakespeare now lies in his use of and massive influence on the English language. I'm a hobby linguist, so Shakespeare is constantly popping up in my studies and its all good.

07-18-2005, 04:05 PM	#99
Lotesse of the House of Fëanor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,150	The Merchant of Venice the movie is a pile of crap. An agonizing, horrible pile of crap, a slap in Shakespeare's face. Crap. __________________ Few people have the imagination for reality. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

07-18-2005, 04:52 PM	#100
Mercutio Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Narnia Posts: 1,656	We are going to see "Love's Labours Lost" in a couple weeks at the Delaware Shakespeare Festival. __________________ Mike nodded. A sombre nod. The nod Napoleon might have given if somebody had met him in 1812 and said, "So, you're back from Moscow, eh?". Interested in C.S. Lewis? Visit the forum dedicated to one of Tolkien's greatest contemporaries.

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