Hobbit funerals

[Rochwen]

Hullo there, Rochwen here. I've been thinking about Sam, and how it is said that after Rosie dies, he sails to the Undying Lands also. So, I'm wondering, what would a hobbit's funeral be like? I suppose that perhaps it might be like an English one, quiet. Or maybe like an Irish one, loud? Or maybe American? Like a wedding announcement? Any thoughts? Comments? Let me know!
Rochwen

[Valandil]

Prepare to be teleported to either the LOTR Books Forum... or Middle-earth Forum!

BBBbbbbbrrrrrrrrrrzzzzzzzzzzxxxxXXXXiiiiiiinNNNnnn ngggggg!

[Sister Golden Hair]

Energizing! Your destination is the Middle-earth forum.

[The Gaffer]

Sam gets in because he was a ring-bearer. He doesn't get eternal life, though, nor does Frodo or Bilbo, they just get their ring-related wounds healed before they shuffle off.

Funerals? Hmm. I imagine they'd be lengthly: a funeral breakfast, a procession strictly governed by protocol (who stands where, etc), elevenses, a service, lunch, a public reading of the will in triplicate with seven witnesses followed by dinner, supper and a midnight snack.

[Rochwen]

Thanks Gaffer, that sounds very hobbitish. Everything you said there makes sense.
Rochwen

[Valandil]

Originally posted by The Gaffer
Funerals? Hmm. I imagine they'd be lengthly: a funeral breakfast, a procession strictly governed by protocol (who stands where, etc), elevenses, a service, lunch, a public reading of the will in triplicate with seven witnesses followed by dinner, supper and a midnight snack.

Gaffer, I think you nailed THAT one!

[Twista]

Originally posted by Valandil
Gaffer, I think you nailed THAT one!

Exactly!


Btw Val... Its good to see that old avatar back, ive missed it! . The tower in the background looks like one of the spires from the Dome of the Rock!

[kiddstodd]

it would probally be like a catholic funeral because Tolkien was catholic

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by kiddstodd
it would probally be like a catholic funeral because Tolkien was catholic

Not necessarily. Tolkien didn't exactly reflect his religious beliefs in his epic mythos. You will of course remember that the Silmarillion is styled after a pantheon of gods, rather than the monotheistic One God, and to all intents and purposes, Hobbits seem to be pretty uninterested in developing a religious overtone into their everyday lives. It's a good question though... I don't remember reading anything about whether they had burials, or pyres, or those stone mound thingies. I would suspect a burial... probably modeled somewhat after some archaic english peasant-style practice. But I really don't know.

[Michael Martinez]

Tolkien never mentions any cemeteries in Middle-earth.

The barrow-downs are not, technically, a cemetery, since the barrows are spread across an extensive region which had also contained towers and fortified positions.

Interestingly, the word "cemetery" is related to the word "city", since both are believed to come from the same Indo-European root word, kei-1. The oldest form of the word "cemetery" that I could find was the ancient Greek word "koimeterion", derived from "koim" (to put to sleep).

Another meaning for kei-1 is "to lie", while yet another meaning is "bed". It is also extended to "loved" and "dear one". A "cemetery" may therefore be a place where a loved one is laid to rest.

Now, David Salo once proposed that Tyrn Gorthad (the apparent Sindarin name for the Barrow Downs) could be translated as "hills" (tyrn being the plural form of torn, possibly with the Quenya equivalent of torni in Hyarnastorni) and "place of the dead (one)" (gorth possibly being the singular form of gyrth from "Dor gyrth i guinar" and -ad possibly from theoretical sad, thad, had, "place").

The region could have been named for the burial site of a long-dead chieftain who was renowned, or it could simply be a collective plural much like "Barrow Downs" (which combines a singluar and plural word to establish a collective plural).

Hence, I don't believe the Barrow Downs were used as a general cemetary by the Dunedain (or the Edain before them). Only chieftains are said to have been buried there in the First Age. Also, in "Aldarion and Erendis", in the section which summarizes the story of their daughter, Ancalime, her suitor (Hallatan of Hyarnastorni) is said to have sung songs from ancient days, when the Edain pastured their flocks in Eriador. The ancient Edain may have grazed their flocks in the Barrow Downs, since the Dunedain of the Third Age built towers and other structures there.

The land is just too large and broad to be a cemetery, and it was used for other purposes besides burying dead chieftains.

So, then, where would everyone bury their dead?

Minas Tirith offers one possible explanation. Rath Dinen was the Silent Street, the street of tombs (technically, called the Hallows, but in "Nomenclature of the Lord of the Rings", published in A Tolkien Compass, Tolkien specifically stated that "Hallows, the" was "a Common Speech translation...of the Gondor name (not given) for the Sacred Places of the tombs").

The Kings of Gondor and the Stewards had their own houses of the dead. Other great families apparently did as well. These "houses" were communal burying places. The occupants were placed on stone beds in great chambers, many bodies gathered together.

Assuming the poorest families of Gondor could not afford the fancy large tombs, they might have nonetheless buried their dead in communal graves, possibly dug into hillsides.

The barrow where Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin were almost sacrificed by the wight sounds very much like the great Irish burial chambers which are believed to served several generations of the same families.

Hence, the practice of burying relatives together might have flourished among the Dunedain of Eriador. They taught the Hobbits to use the Westron language, to use Elvish tengwar and cirth, and to build houses (and other buildings). So they may also have taught the Hobbits how to house their dead.

Each Hobbit family would probably have had a special hill designated for its dead, if one was available. But, like the Northmen, who raised barrows over their dead leaders, the Hobbits could simply have built a stone house (a mausoleum) and covered it with dirt. The Hobbits could have developed or shared or learned a similar custom with the Northmen of the Vales of Anduin prior to entering Eriador.

In a place like the Shire, the location of the family hallows would probably have been close to the main smials of the larger clans. There seems to have been little danger of grave robbery.

In Bree, however, the hallows might have been located in the remote woods, to discourage brigands and thieves from plundering the family tombs.

It might be that individual graves were dug at need and placed around family lands. Villagers might have buried their dead in communal grave-yards, but there are no examples of such places in any of the stories. Even the Edain of the First Age, in The Silmarillion, seem to have buried their dead haphazardly.

The Great Plague may have radically altered the burial practices of Bree and the Shire anyway.

[Michael Martinez]

You know, it occurs to me that Tolkien did describe a Hobbit funeral, of sorts. They buried some Hobbits after the Battle of Bywater. They were buried separately from the Ruffians, and I believe a memorial was set up. I don't have the book handy to check.

[Michael Martinez]

Originally Posted by BeardofPants

Not necessarily. Tolkien didn't exactly reflect his religious beliefs in his epic mythos. You will of course remember that the Silmarillion is styled after a pantheon of gods,...

Early versions of The Silmarillion had the pantheon of gods, but the published version had switched to the Angels of God motif (a decision Tolkien appears to have made in the years 1938-1948). And there was indeed a monotheistic One God (Iluvatar) in The Silmarillion.

Tolkien pointed out in one of his letters that the Numenoreans were strict monotheists, though of a more primitive sort than the Biblical Hebrews.