Concerning Smeagol

[barrelrider110]

The one ring had an immediate and drastic effect on Smeagol. He lied and then killed Deagol for it as soon as he saw it, or knew of it. He soon turned into Gollum and became a recluse. Since Smeagol was of a race that was closely related to Hobbits.

he was one of the fisherfolk that lived along the Gladden river, the grandfathers of the grandfathers of the Stoors"

Why was the ring's effect on Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam so dramatically different? Any ideas?

[TinuvielChild]

praps it's just that Smeagol was a fundamentally evil little creature, that was easily twisted to the will of the Ring? and the Hobbits were sturdy creatures, extraordinarily resilient. *shrugs*

[Earniel]

It took very long to change Smeagol into Gollum. I also think the effect of the ring depends on the mind of the Bearer and the situation. The situations of Bilbo, Frodo and Sam were very different which might explain the difference in effect. Bilbo had it for a long time but also for a long time when Sauron was rather inactive, which influenced the ring too. Frodo had it for a shorter time but at the height of Sauron's power. Sam had it only for a short while. Well, that's the way I see it.

[Tar-Elendil]

in the book it says he was related "distantly" to hobbits. the wills of the shire hobbits just might be stronger

[Strange-Looking Lurker]

I think Smeagol was just kinda rotten from the start. Sure, the ring gave him the idea to kill his friend, but it didn't have control of him yet.

[Khamûl]

Perhaps Bilbo and Frodo were stronger at heart, and had enough control over themselves not to let the ring influence them that much. I think that it all comes down to strength of character. Maybe Smeagol was just weaker than either Frodo or Bilbo, and that's why the ring corrupted him from the first time he saw it.

But that's just my humble opinion.

[Khadrane]

I think that Smeagol was rotten to begin with. He wasn't as bad as Gollum, but he was still pretty bad.

[Arathorn]

Could it be that the ring itself had consciousness and could decide whom to focus its malice on and how to make one guy decide to take it when the time is right?

[Elfhelm]

Gandalf also wonders why the troll and the watcher in the water were both drawn to atack Frodo. Their hearts were already corrupted. So I'm going to agree with Lurker. Sméagol was already corrupt.

[Earniel]

I think the ring to some extent can see the weakness in people's character and exploit it by using their fears and desires against themselves. I don't think Smeagol was corrupt already, but there must have been something in his character that wasn't 'that nice'.

[Tar-Elendil]

It took very long to change Smeagol into Gollum

around the year 2463, Déagol finds the One Ring and is murdered by Sméagol. 7 years later after being shunned by his family, Sméagol hides under the misty mountains..
the "transformation" of Sméagol into gollum took place as soon as he beheld the ring, but it took many years for a complete change..
just my opinion

[Wayfarer]

The ring gives power according to your stature, so smeagol, who was a sneak to begin with (thought not a bad one) was affected differently from bilbo, who had no idea what he was getting ionto, and no interest in it anyway, and frodo, who was noble and self sacrificing, or sam, who was decent, and sensible, and loyal above all.

In the same way, Saruman, Gandalf, Galadriel, Elrond and Aragorn would have all been corrupted differently had they become dark lords. Each would have been vastly different from Sauron as well.

[Elf Girl]

Smeagol was a jerk. That's just my opinion, though.

[wecks]

I think that Frodo and Bilbo did have immediate affects over the Ring immediately. Didn't Frodo keep the Ring secret to himself as soon as he met up with the Dwarves and even lie to Gandalf about it? Wasn't Frodo reluctlant to throw the Ring into the fire?

[BeardofPants]

Welcome to the Moot Wecks!

Regarding the ring, it seemed to have a mind of it's own. It deliberately left Isildur, and perhaps even Smaegol. If it can choose it's owners, I suspect it can also choose the degree with which to effect the bearer. I guess, Frodo/Sam were the best bets to get the ring to Mordor, so it corrupted them less. Whereas, with Smaegol, it corrupted his character more, because he was more inclined to be a sneak, and to keep him holed up in the Misty Mountains....

[Elf Girl]

I never thought of that, the Ring wanting to hitch a ride on Frodo and Sam to Mordor. It seems obvious now.

[barrelrider110]

Thank you all for your ideas. I am intrigued by the last post by BeardofPants:

Regarding the ring, it seemed to have a mind of it's own. It deliberately left Isildur, and perhaps even Smaegol. If it can choose it's owners, I suspect it can also choose the degree with which to effect the bearer. I guess, Froda/Sam were the best bets to get the ring to Mordor, so it corrupted them less.

The ring wanted to get back to its master, and since Frodo was going to Mordor, the ring could exert its influence at an opportune time. A very astute conclusion. However, when Frodo was first given the ring, it appeared to have little or no effect upon him, until Bree. He did not know he was to take the ring to Mordor until the Council of Elrond.

The ring did seem to "choose" its master. It could grow or shrink in size. It slipped off Isildur's hand as it did Gollum. I wonder if the ring "committed suicide" when Gollum took it back from Frodo, rather than be possessed by him again.

Regarding the evilness of Smeagol: I don't think Smeagol was inherently rotten. He shows glimpses of good in a couple of instances. (1) In the Taming of Smeagol, he shows his willingness to help Frodo, and furthermore in his debate with himself later, we actually hear his good side talking to the bad (2) During the riddle game, he demonstrates his willingness to play fair, albeit to a point (3) Almost all of Tolkien's characters, even the bad ones, were good at the start. The bad ones became bad after they were corrupted. This demonstrates JRRT's view of humanity: that we are all inherently good, but some are stronger than others at resisting temptation. So I think the professor's intention was to paint Smeagol as weak rather than evil.

[Elfhelm]

I have always thought that the inherent goodness in Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam protected them from a great portion of the corruption. Bilbo was able to give it up, and so was Sam. Let's not leave that out of the equation. That, I think, is huge.

[Earniel]

Originally posted by barrelrider110
The ring wanted to get back to its master, and since Frodo was going to Mordor, the ring could exert its influence at an opportune time. A very astute conclusion. However, when Frodo was first given the ring, it appeared to have little or no effect upon him, until Bree. He did not know he was to take the ring to Mordor until the Council of Elrond.

The ring is linked to Sauron. During their journey Sauron's power grew and the ring came constantly closer to him. That may have effected the rings own power as well.

The ring trying to get a free ride from the hobbits is an original idea. Frodo claiming the ring at Mt Doom even fits in that theory. The rings must have thought: "Hey, now just wait a minute!"

You have a very interesting point concerning Gollum's evil, barrelrider.

[Elf Girl]

Originally posted by Eärniel
The rings must have thought: "Hey, now just wait a minute!"

LOL!!!