Gwaihir the immortal

[Ñólendil]

Every once in a while there's a discussion about Gwaihir the Windlord from the Lord of the Rings. I remember people on the Hobbit forum debating whether Gwaihir is the same as the Lord of the Eagles from The Hobbit. What I've never read, though I'm certain it has occured, is discussion of Gwaihir from The Silmarillion.

I believe Gwaihir is in some way a Maia, or at least has Maian blood. And if he is not immortal or indefinitely longeval, he is at least very long lived.

My evidence lies in The Lost Road And Other Writings (History of Middle-earth Vol. V) and Morgoth's Ring (HoMe X).

In that part of the Lost Road covering the Quenta Silmarillion chapters 12-15, Christopher Tolkien is talking about the editorial alterations made to his father's writings in order to produce the text published in The Silmarillion. Concerning the line in Of Beren and Lúthien where those two are rescued by Thorondor and two other Eagles from the steps of Angband, Christopher has these interesting remarks:

with wings swifter than the wind (p. 182). The draft text B has at this point: 'Thorondor led them, and the others were Lhandroval (Wide-wing) and Gwaewar his vassal.' In the following text C, also of 1937, this became: 'Thorondor was their leader; and with him were his mightiest vassals, wide-winged Lhandroval, and Gwaewar lord of the wind.' This was emended (in 1951) to 'Gwaihir the lord of storm', and in this form the passage is found in the QS [Quenta Silmarillion] manuscript. It was omitted in The Silmarillion on account of the passage in The Return of the King (VI. 4): 'There came Gwahir the Windlord, and Landroval his brother ... mightiest of the descendants of old Thorondor, who built his eyries in the inaccessible peaks of the Encircling Mountains when Middle-earth was young.' At the time, I did not understand the nature and dating of the end of QS. It now appears that there was no reason to suppress the names; in fact, it seems that Gwaewar was changed to Gwaihir to bring it into accord with The Lord of the Rings -- however this is to be interpreted.

So we have Gwaihir, the descendant of old Thorondor, alive in the First Age and serving his ancestor. And we have the same Eagle living on to the end of the Third Age and most likely beyond.

Why do I say he's a Maia (or anyway Maian)?

Morgoth's Ring, Myths Transformed, an excerpt from an essay about Orcs:

(4) What of talking beasts and birds with reasoning and speech? These have been rather lightly adopted from less 'serious' mythologies, but play a part which cannot now be excised. They are certainly 'exceptions' and not much used, but sufficiently to show they are a recognized feature of the world. All other creatures accept them as natural if not common.

But true 'rational' creatures, 'speaking peoples', are all of human / 'humanoid' form. Only the Valar and Maiar are intelligences that can assume forms of Arda at will. Huan and Sorontar [Thorondor] could be Maiar -- emissaries of Manwë.[note 4] But unfortunately in The Lord of the Rings Gwaehir and Landroval are said to be descendants of Sorontar.[note 5]

Note 4: See p. 138. -- At the bottom of the page bearing the brief text V (p. 389) my father jotted down the following, entirely unconnected with the matter of the text:
Living things in Aman. As the Valar would robe themselves like the Children, many of the Maiar robed themselves like other lesser living things, as trees, flowers, beasts. (Huan.)

Note 5: 'There came Gwaihir the Windlord, and Landroval his brother, greatest of all the Eagles of the North, mightiest of the descendants of old Thorondor' ('The Field of Cormallen' in The Return of the King).

So Tolkien was at this time thinking about making Thorondor and Huan Maiar. He seemed unsure and noted that it was "unfortunate" Gwaihir had been named Sorontar's descendant. He writes it as though a Maia could not have descendants. Think of Melian, whose line is not yet ended! In any case, as I have shown, he later placed both Gwaihir and Landroval back in the First Age, helping mighty Thorondor rescue Beren and Lúthien, and he did it so as to be in accord with the Lord of the Rings. Also, as shown by Note 4, J. R. R. Tolkien at one point names Huan as a Maia (and Werewolves and Wargs, enemies of Huan, are often described as "demonic").

And if Gwaihir is a Maia that lived through all the first Three Ages of the Sun, then he was undoubtedly the same lord of the eagles seen in The Hobbit.

If Gwaihir was not a Maia, I must believe he had Maian blood through Thorondor, as Elwing or Elrond had it from Melian (through Lúthien grandmother of Elwing).

[Garina]

The eagle's longevity could be something to do with them being beloved of Manwe.

[Michael Martinez]

You are mixing mythologies, and therefore invalidating your theory and argument.

Just because Tolkien reused a name from an older set of stories doesn't mean there is any continuity from the older set of stories to the newer set of stories.

That has to be the most common flaw made in Tolkien analysis.

[Ñólendil]

I totally agree, but I don't think that's what I've done here. It's not as though Tolkien reused the name "Gwaehir" in the Lord of the Rings from the Book of Lost Tales mythology. In the old mythology, the Eagle who accompanied Thorondor was called Gwaewar and Christopher Tolkien makes it clear that J. R. R. changed this name to Gwaihir after the completion of the Lord of the Rings to bring that passage in the Beren and Lúthien story into accord with it (Rings). The Eagle was named Gwaehir after the Lord of the Rings was finished. So I don't think I'm really mixing mythologies.

[Darth Tater]

As I mentioned to Nolendil over AIM, assuming his idea is true Gwaihir wouldn't be a Maia, but the son of the Maia Thorondir. I would assume the Maiar are only those created by Iluvatar and not their children as well, even if both their parents are Maiar.

[Michael Martinez]

Originally posted by Ñólendil
I totally agree, but I don't think that's what I've done here. It's not as though Tolkien reused the name "Gwaehir" in the Lord of the Rings from the Book of Lost Tales mythology. In the old mythology, the Eagle who accompanied Thorondor was called Gwaewar and Christopher Tolkien makes it clear that J. R. R. changed this name to Gwaihir after the completion of the Lord of the Rings to bring that passage in the Beren and Lúthien story into accord with it (Rings). The Eagle was named Gwaehir after the Lord of the Rings was finished. So I don't think I'm really mixing mythologies.

That is exactly what you have done here.

with wings swifter than the wind (p. 182). The draft text B (see p. 293) has at this point: 'Thorondor led them, and the others were Lhandroval (Wide-wing) and Gwaewar his vassal.' In the following text C, also of 1937, this became: 'Thorondor was their leader; and with him were his mightiest vassals, wide-winged Lhandroval, and Gwaewar lord of the wind.' This was emended (in 1951, see p. 294) to 'Gwaihir the lord of storm', and in this form the passage is found in the QS manuscript. It was omitted in The Silmarillion on account of the passage in The Return of the King (VI.4): 'There came Gwaihir the Windlord, and Landroval his brother...mightiest of the descendants of old Thorondor, who built his eyries in the inaccessible peaks of the Encircling Mountains when Middle-earth was young.' At the time, I did not understand the nature and dating of the end of QS. It now appears there was no reason to supporess the names; in fact, it seems that Gwaewar was changed to Gwaihir to bring it into accord with The Lord of the Rings -- however this is to be interpreted.

Now, while it may seem that Christopher vindicates what you have done, he has more to say on the QS manuscript. The comment cited above is published on page 301. Christopher explains part of the complex history of the QS texts starting on page 292, and on page 293 he points out that Text C is dated to 1937, and was begun while QS was being considered by George Allen & Unwin (who eventually rejected it). On page 294, Christopher explains how some of the additions and corrections made to Text C occurred in 1951 (14 years later), by citing a marginal note where his father left a date of May 15, 1951.

1951 was a very crucial year for Tolkien. But what happened to Text C had nothing to do with bringing it into the Lord of the Rings mythology. Christopher lays out a brief summary of the textual history on pages 294-5:

The story can be summarised thus:

(1) A rough draft 'A', in which the telling of the tale of Beren and Luthien was very amply conceived, was soon abandoned.

(2) The QS-manuscript version of the tale was begun, again in a very full form but less so than in A, and was in turn abandoned quite early in the tale ('QS I').

(3) A rough draft 'B' for the whole story of Beren and Luthien was completed, and was the basis for:

(4) A second, more compressed version to stand in the QS manuscript ('QS II') ; this was interrupted towards the end of the tale when the manuscript went to the publishers.

(5) An intermediate text 'C', taking up from this point, was continued as a substitute while the QS manuscript was gone, and this completed the story of Beren and Luthien, extended through the chapter on the Battle of Unnumbered Tears, and went some way into the story of Turin.

(6) When C became very rough, it was taken over by a text 'D', which beginning in the course of the chapter on the Battle of Unnumbered Tears extended somewhat further into the story of Turin; this was abandoned when the QS manuscript returned in December 1937.

(7) In 1951 the conclusion of the tale of Beren and Luthien (chapter 15) was at last added to the QS manuscript.

Basically, JRRT was just tidying up a previous mythology's manuscript, and there is plenty of clear evidence that that was all he was doing. The Treason of Isengard shows that Gwaewar the Windlord started out as lord of the Eagles and was demoted. His named was changed during the composition of "The White Rider" in 1944 or later. In Morgoth's Ring, Christopher explains that his father returned to the Silmarillion legends in the 1940s, at least no later than 1948, perhaps as early as 1947. JRRT's primary focus there was on "Ainulindale", in which he completed the transformation of the Valar from gods to angels.

In the opening comments on "The Later Quenta Silmarillion", Christopher writes:

In this book, as explained in the Foreword, my account of the development of The Silmarillion in the years following the completion of The Lord of the Rings is restricted to the 'Valinorean' part of the narrative -- that is to say, to the part corresponding to the Annals of Aman.

As with the Annals of Valinor (Aman) (p. 47), my father did not begin revision of the Quenta Silmarillion as a new venture on blank sheets, but took up again the original QS manuscript and the typescript (entitled 'Eldanyare') derived from it (see V. 199-201) and covered them with corrections and expansions. As already seen (p. 3), he noted that the revision had reached the end of the tale of Beren and Luthien on 10 May 1951. The chapters were very differently treated, some being much more developed than others and running to several further texts.

An amanuensis typescript was then made, providing a reasonably clear and uniform text from the now complicated and difficult materials. This was made by the same person as made the typescript of Ainulindale D (p. 39) and seems to have been paginated continuously on from it. I shall call this typescript 'LQ 1' (for 'Later Quenta 1', i.e., 'the first continuous text of the later Quenta Silmarillion'). It seems virtually certain that it was made in 1951(-2).

LQ 1 was corrected, at different times and to greatly varying extent. A new typescript, in top copy anc carbon, was professionally made later, incorporating all the alterations made to LQ 1. This text I shall call 'LQ 2'. In a letter to Rayner Unwin of 7 December 1957 (Letters no. 204) my father said:

I now see quite clearly that I must, as a necessary preliminary to 'remoulding', get copies made of all copyable material. And I shall put thaht in hand as soon as possible. But I think the best way of dealing with this (at this stage, in which much of the stuff is in irreplaceable sole copies) is to install a typist in my room in college, and not let any material out of my keeping, until it is multiplied.

It seems likely that it was soon this that LQ 2 was made. It is noteworthy that it was typed on the same machine as was used for the typescript of the Annals of Aman (also extant in top copy and carbon), and both texts may well belong to the same time -- say 1958. LQ 2 (like LQ 1) has naturally no textual value in itself, but it received careful emendation in Chapter 1 Of the Valar (thereafter, however, only scattered jottings).

Finally, my father turned to new narrative writing in the Matter of the First Age before the Hiding of Valinor. The first chapter, Of the Valar much altered at this time, became separated off from the Quenta Silmarillion proper under the title Valaquenta; while the sixth chapter, Of the Silmarils and the Darkening of Valinor (numbered 4 in QS, V. 227), and a part of the seventh, Of the Flight of the Noldor (numbered 5 in QS), were very greatly enlarged and gave rise to new chapters with these titles:

Of Finwe and Miriel
Of Feanor and the Unchaining of Melkor
Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor
Of the Darkening of Valinor
Of the Rape of the Silmarils
Of the Thieves' Quarrel

This new work exemplifies the 'remoulding' to which my father looked forward in the letter to Rayner Unwin cited above. It represents (together with much other writing of a predominantly speculative nature) a second phase in his later work on The Silmarillion. The first phase included the new version of the Lay of Leithian, the later Ainulindale, the Annals of Aman and the Grey Annals, the later Tale of Tuor, and the first wave of revision of the Quenta Silmarillion, much of this work left unfinished. The years 1953-5 saw the preparation and publication of The Lord of the Rings; and there seems reason to think that it was a good while yet before he turned again to The Silmarillion, or at least to its earlier chapters.

In these substantially rewritten chapters of the 'second phase' he was moving strongly into a new conception of the work, a new and much fuller mode of narrative -- envisaging, as it appears, a thorough-going 're-expansion' from the still fairly condensed form (despite a good deal of enlargement in the 1951 revision) that went back through QS and Q to the 'Sketch of the Mythology' of 1926, which had made a brief summary from the amplitude of The Book of Lost Tales (on this evolution see IV. 76).

So, in the final analysis, the comment cited from Volume V, The Lost Road and Other Writings regarding the name-change of the First Age eagle, is placed into a clear context where JRRT was making notes as part of a transition to a complete rewriting of the Silmarillion legends.

See followup message for conclusion.

[Michael Martinez]

And the conclusion is:

It is therefore inappropriate to use material from The Lost Road and Other Writings as the basis for an analysis of the world of The Lord of the Rings. That material was never incorporated into the later mythology. It was used as a springboard for creating the fuller version of the much-revised Silmarillion mythology, which version was incorporated into the world of The Lord of the Rings (through the story itself and the appendices, which Tolkien created in 1950 and revised in 1953-5).

[Michael Martinez]

Christopher may have suppressed the passage from the published Silmarillion, but he does not show that the passage itself was carried forward to the later texts. (In fact, a variant of the passage is found in "The Grey Annals", but there Gwaihir is simply named "Gwaihir" -- he is given no title). Had Christopher included "Gwaihir the Windlord" in the published Silmarillion, he would have been wrong to do so, since "The Grey Annals" succeeded QS Text C.

Tolkien often reused names from the earlier stories. If we were to accept your argument about the two Gwaihirs being the same creature, then we would have to assume that Legolas Greenleaf from "The Fall of Gondolin" was the same Legolas who joined the Fellowship of the Ring.

That two Elves are named Rumil does not mean they were the same character. That two Eagles are named Gwaihir does not mean they were the same, either.

[Ñólendil]

Well, thank you very much for the correction and information. I understand better now.

Do you think it's even possible that the two Gwaihirs were the same? And what about Lhandroval/Landroval? Is his name used in that Grey Annals variant?

[Michael Martinez]

I can only go back to the quilt analogy (or was that in another forum?). Tolkien was transplanting ideas and elements from mythology to mythology. The only way to be sure that Gwaihir from The Lord of the Rings would have been ancient enough to live in the First Age is to find a relevant text which places him there. Otherwise, you are faced with two Gwaihirs in two separate mythologies.