Five armies

Agburanar · 01-09-2002, 10:27 AM

Which were the actual five armies? My list seems to be:
The dwarves,
The elves,
The men of Lake town,
The goblins,
The wargs,
The eagles,
Beorn?

That's 6 or 7 armies so which one doesn't count? The eagles, because they arrived late?

Lightice · 01-09-2002, 03:50 PM

Eagles and Beorn weren't armies. Wargs were.
So Five Armies were wood elves, lake men, dwarves, goblins and wargs.

Entlover · 01-12-2002, 08:48 PM

Excuse the contradiction, but I believe the 5 armies were dwarves, elves, men, goblins and wargs (one army), and eagles.

Spock · 01-13-2002, 12:51 PM

Men
Elves
Dwarves
Eagles
fought
The Hosts of Mordor (wargs, goblins, etc. etc.)

Thus the Battle of the Five Armies.

noldorlord · 01-15-2002, 05:03 PM

spock: sorry but I don't think the goblins in this encounter were the hordes of mordor. Perhaps the spawn of but not the hordes. They came from thei own cities and declared war because they wanted to not because sauron did. Sorry for being picky...

Wayfarer · 01-15-2002, 08:48 PM

The Orcs and Goblins from the misty mountains and Moria.
Wargs from Wilderland.
Dwarves from the Iron Mountains.
Elves From Mirkwood.
Men from Esgaroth.

That's it. The Eagles and the bats were not armies.

Agburanar · 01-16-2002, 09:28 AM

Goblins- led by Bolg of the North from Mt. Gundabad, High pass and Moria.
Men- led by Bard, from Esgaroth, and Beorn?
Elves- Led by Thranduil, from Mirkwood
Dwarves- Led by Dain (from the Iron Hills) and Thorin (Thorin's co.)
Wargs- Led by some big wolf! From the foothills of the Misty Mountains.

Yes.

***HOBBIT*** · 01-16-2002, 08:32 PM

What more is there to discuss.

Michael Martinez · 01-16-2002, 10:27 PM

"Upon one side were the Goblins and the wild Wolves, and upon the other were the Elves and Men and Dwarves."

I'm afraid the Eagles arrived too late to count as the fifth army. But I would regard their force as an army nonetheless.

Spock · 01-17-2002, 08:57 PM

hmmm, silly me I only enumerated what is in the original book.
allies, hosts, associates et.al. joined together as in a coalition.

Greg Ferlito · 01-20-2002, 02:10 PM

I agree with Entlover the wargs and goblins count as one army and Beorn is not an army

dark over lord · 01-24-2002, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Agburanar
Elves- Led by Thranduil, from Mirkwood

Was Legolas at the Battle of the Five Armys since he's a wood elf (and not Elrond's son like in the cartoon), even though they don't menton him.

Ñólendil · 01-25-2002, 04:42 PM

I don't remember a cartoon where Legolas is Elrond's son. He's only in the Bakshi Fellowship of the Ring movie, but I don't think he was Elrond's son in that. It's not said whether or not he was in the Battle, but I don't see why he wouldn't be. You'd think Legolas would have mentioned it to Frodo or Gimli at one point though.

dark over lord · 01-25-2002, 04:45 PM

in that cartoon in which they covered th first two books and part of the last they meet legolas and he says that hes elronds son

Twilight · 02-08-2002, 05:03 PM

Maybe Legolas wanted to keep his role to himself. Frodo split off from the company in the first book, so that was before he was friends with Gimli. He might not have wanted Gimli to know because that could have been a potentially senesitive issue. I am sure that Gimli got a rahter biased acount of the story, and it would have strained relations between them to know that Legolas was part of an army that was making demands from the dwarves.

The king needed somebody to stay behing and run things while he was gone. Legolas would have been a good choise for that. I don't think there is much evidence for either possibility.

Entlover · 02-09-2002, 01:42 AM

Legolas is Thranduil's son, king of the Mirkwood elves (as you all know). They probably were condensing characters and made Elrond stand for all the elf kings. But I wonder if Legolas was alive at the Battle of Five Armies; wasn't that, like, 60 years earlier? Gimli was Gloin's son and wasn't mentioned in the battle either, was he? (If I were really together I would know all this off the top of my head, but sorry, I don't)

Starr Polish · 02-09-2002, 01:47 AM

Legolas would have been around because elves are immortal and most Tolkien scholars think he was around Arwen's age (who is around 3000 years old), but Tolkien never specified his age. In interviews with Orlando Bloom he says his character is 2931 years old...probably just some number that Peter jackson pulled out of the air, but he is at least a few thousand years old, so he would have been around.

I look at this later and say HOLY RUN ON SENTENCE...I'm tired, cut me a break

01-09-2002, 10:27 AM	#1
Agburanar Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dorset Posts: 608	Five armies Which were the actual five armies? My list seems to be: The dwarves, The elves, The men of Lake town, The goblins, The wargs, The eagles, Beorn? That's 6 or 7 armies so which one doesn't count? The eagles, because they arrived late?

01-12-2002, 08:48 PM	#3
Entlover Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 463	5 armies Excuse the contradiction, but I believe the 5 armies were dwarves, elves, men, goblins and wargs (one army), and eagles.

01-13-2002, 12:51 PM	#4
Spock An enigma in a conundrum Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 6,476	Men Elves Dwarves Eagles fought The Hosts of Mordor (wargs, goblins, etc. etc.) Thus the Battle of the Five Armies. __________________ Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Last edited by Spock : 01-13-2002 at 01:01 PM.

01-15-2002, 05:03 PM	#5
noldorlord Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: derbyshire, england Posts: 42	spock: sorry but I don't think the goblins in this encounter were the hordes of mordor. Perhaps the spawn of but not the hordes. They came from thei own cities and declared war because they wanted to not because sauron did. Sorry for being picky... __________________ "fly you fools" - Gandalf

01-15-2002, 08:48 PM	#6
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	The Orcs and Goblins from the misty mountains and Moria. Wargs from Wilderland. Dwarves from the Iron Mountains. Elves From Mirkwood. Men from Esgaroth. That's it. The Eagles and the bats were not armies. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

01-09-2002, 03:50 PM	#2
Lightice Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 192	Eagles and Beorn weren't armies. Wargs were. So Five Armies were wood elves, lake men, dwarves, goblins and wargs.

01-16-2002, 09:28 AM	#7
Agburanar Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dorset Posts: 608	Goblins- led by Bolg of the North from Mt. Gundabad, High pass and Moria. Men- led by Bard, from Esgaroth, and Beorn? Elves- Led by Thranduil, from Mirkwood Dwarves- Led by Dain (from the Iron Hills) and Thorin (Thorin's co.) Wargs- Led by some big wolf! From the foothills of the Misty Mountains. Yes.

01-16-2002, 08:32 PM	#8
*HOBBIT* Saviour of Entmoot Admiral Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: NC/NJ (no longer Same place as bmilder.) Posts: 61,986	What more is there to discuss. __________________ President Emeritus (2000-2004) Private message (or email) me if you need any assistance. I am here to help! "I'm up to here with cool, ok? I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis" - Zaphod Beeblebrox Latest Blog Post: Just Quit Facebook? No One Cares!

01-16-2002, 10:27 PM	#9
Michael Martinez Elven Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 892	"Upon one side were the Goblins and the wild Wolves, and upon the other were the Elves and Men and Dwarves." I'm afraid the Eagles arrived too late to count as the fifth army. But I would regard their force as an army nonetheless. __________________ http://www.xenite.org/faqs/lotr_movie/ http://www.michael-martinez.com/ http://www.merp.com/essays/MichaelMartinez/

01-17-2002, 08:57 PM	#10
Spock An enigma in a conundrum Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 6,476	hmmm, silly me I only enumerated what is in the original book. allies, hosts, associates et.al. joined together as in a coalition. __________________ Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Last edited by Spock : 01-17-2002 at 08:59 PM.

01-20-2002, 02:10 PM	#11
Greg Ferlito Sapling Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: new york Posts: 3	I agree with Entlover the wargs and goblins count as one army and Beorn is not an army

01-25-2002, 04:42 PM	#13
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	I don't remember a cartoon where Legolas is Elrond's son. He's only in the Bakshi Fellowship of the Ring movie, but I don't think he was Elrond's son in that. It's not said whether or not he was in the Battle, but I don't see why he wouldn't be. You'd think Legolas would have mentioned it to Frodo or Gimli at one point though. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

01-25-2002, 04:45 PM	#14
dark over lord Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 41	in that cartoon in which they covered th first two books and part of the last they meet legolas and he says that hes elronds son __________________ The question which once haunted my being has been answered. The future is not fixed, and my choices are my own. And yet, how ironic, for now I find, I have no choice at all. I am a warrior, let the battled be joined. -dinobot, and me, before i went and got myself shot- The sleeper has awakend, i am the prince of all sayans once again-Vegeta-

02-08-2002, 05:03 PM	#15
Twilight Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wilmore, KY Posts: 269	Maybe Legolas wanted to keep his role to himself. Frodo split off from the company in the first book, so that was before he was friends with Gimli. He might not have wanted Gimli to know because that could have been a potentially senesitive issue. I am sure that Gimli got a rahter biased acount of the story, and it would have strained relations between them to know that Legolas was part of an army that was making demands from the dwarves. The king needed somebody to stay behing and run things while he was gone. Legolas would have been a good choise for that. I don't think there is much evidence for either possibility. __________________ Sometimes I wonder how many monkeys with typewritters it would take to reproduce what I just wrote.

02-09-2002, 01:42 AM	#16
Entlover Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 463	Legolas is Thranduil's son, king of the Mirkwood elves (as you all know). They probably were condensing characters and made Elrond stand for all the elf kings. But I wonder if Legolas was alive at the Battle of Five Armies; wasn't that, like, 60 years earlier? Gimli was Gloin's son and wasn't mentioned in the battle either, was he? (If I were really together I would know all this off the top of my head, but sorry, I don't)

02-09-2002, 01:47 AM	#17
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	Legolas would have been around because elves are immortal and most Tolkien scholars think he was around Arwen's age (who is around 3000 years old), but Tolkien never specified his age. In interviews with Orlando Bloom he says his character is 2931 years old...probably just some number that Peter jackson pulled out of the air, but he is at least a few thousand years old, so he would have been around. I look at this later and say HOLY RUN ON SENTENCE...I'm tired, cut me a break __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell Last edited by Starr Polish : 02-09-2002 at 01:48 AM.

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