thrandruil the greedy

afro-elf · 10-11-2001, 11:28 PM

I can understand the men of lake town wanting some gold to claim as damage for the loss of their town.

But wasn't Legolas's dad a bit of a greedy guy? Did he really have a solid claim?

Ñólendil · 10-12-2001, 12:39 AM

He had some claim because of his aid in the Battle, but he does come across to me as rather greedy, yes. Not really a corrupt person, that is: not wicked, but a bit money-hungry. As a matter of fact he reminds me somewhat of Thingol, but less in might and wisdom.

easterlinge · 10-12-2001, 06:32 AM

Everyone's blasting Thingol......

afro-elf · 10-12-2001, 09:18 AM

Inoldonil

wasn't the reason for his army being there in the first place ( before the orc threat) to claim gold?

Strange-Looking Lurker · 10-17-2001, 09:53 AM

He was a greedy jurk, willing to risk the lives of his men for something he had no claim to whatsoever. His men were either brain washed or as bad as he was.

Ñólendil · 10-17-2001, 04:36 PM

Right. Like his son, Legolas, eh?

Strange-Looking Lurker · 10-17-2001, 05:04 PM

Legolas, thank goodness, was not like his father.

Ñólendil · 10-17-2001, 06:10 PM

Then surely the people he belonged to could be like Legolas, rather than 'brain washed or as bad as Thranduil is'?

afro-elf · 10-17-2001, 09:52 PM

I think there is something about Thrandruil saying he and his people were "ASSAULTED" by Thorin.

I hardly think that Bilbo and co. assault the King in the forest, but if the king told is people that he was assaulted, then they may follow him for some type of retribution.

afro-elf · 10-18-2001, 01:37 AM

i got this from galadriel's mirror

Middle Earth Editorial #4
I really just don't think the Wood Elves have a leg to stand on

By Thorin Oakenshield

I'm sorry. I've mulled this over a thousand times now, and I STILL just can't see where those Wood Elves get off claiming a part of this treasure! This is baffling the hell out of me, and I wish someone could explain it.

Okay, I'm cool with the lakemen. The burgler and Balin have explained it so I see. They DID save us from the barrels and they DID outfit us for this little expedition. And I suppose it isn't insignificant that they're pretty much responsible for that dragon not coming back and devouring us, so okay - fine. I'm okay with giving them a healthy share. Probably even more than the 1/12th they asked for. I'm also open to the idea of sending some gold back Beorn and Elrond's way. They actually HELPED us.

But the Elves??? Come on! Okay, forget the fact that they waylaid us and locked us up in their dungeon and would have kept us there for time out of mind if it weren't for the burgler. Assuming that we're willing to forgive them for THAT little episode, I just do not see how they have a legitimate claim on anything!

They hindered us from getting to the mountain, and they didn't do anything to rid us of the dragon. All they did was show up in force after the work was done. Is there an aspect of this situation that I am somehow missing? Please, if I'm being blind to some obvious fact of justice here, point it out to me and I will shower you with thanks! Is it OKAY to show up after any fight and demand a share of the spoils just because... well, just BECAUSE?

I admit, greed and good old-fashioned dwarven gold-lust overtook me when I first got here. But I've quite come to my senses now and I am still forced to conclude that any school child would have to question this preposterous claim to our gold.

Now of course, there will be those who think I'm some old miser who can't share and share alike. Well that's just not fair! I ask you, would it be legitimate for me and my dwarves to show up in Mirkwood and demand a little food and lodging just for no reason and with no payment? A-HA! The elves didn't seem to think so when they locked us up! But now that the tables are turned and we are the ones with means, the elves are all like: "Why can't you share?" Well, they're just breaking my heart.

What vexes me the most is the fact that wether they get any gold or not, they're bound to benefit from the release of this wealth into the local economy. Why can't they be happy with the inevitable benefit to everyone that this supply-side bonanza will have in short order? If you ask me, those elves have a lot of nerve.

Strange-Looking Lurker · 10-22-2001, 05:38 PM

I agree with Thorin.

Bregalad · 10-23-2001, 09:50 PM

I agree with thorin as well. I think the elves in question were just pissed off that their prisoners managed to escape. makes them look bad, don't you know. To save face they had to make someone "pay"! either figuratively or literally.

easterlinge · 10-26-2001, 12:26 AM

Thorin, aren't you dead?

Maybe Thranduil's kingdom is in deep economic crisis. Them Wood Elves do import a lot of food, even exotic stuff like Dorwinion wine. How Thranduil pays for them is a mystery, his folk don't seem to export anything. I think the Kingdom has been running a deficit for quite some time.

Erebor's re-establishment will surely drive up the demand and price of food, and the Dwarves flooding the market with cheap manufactured goods and gold will assuredly drive up inflation.

Things aren't looking so hot for Thranduil's kingdom.

This may be the catalyst for a meeting of the W.T.O. (Wilderland Trade Organization) ..... King Elessar will have to send somebody to mediate with them after the War.

Christiana · 06-08-2002, 12:02 AM

Elves are a pure, full-blooded,powerful people.They took no more than their due.

Tar-Elendil · 06-08-2002, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Christiana
[B]Elves are a pure, full-blooded,powerful people./B]

pure? eol maeglin..feanor(mebbe)
maeglins company in the "defense" of gondolin

Christiana · 06-08-2002, 05:38 PM

Eol was an "unwilling" elf, and Maeglar was his son. Feanor was just corrupted.

Tar-Elendil · 06-09-2002, 03:50 PM

maeglor? i believe ur thinking of maglor one of the sons of feanor. Maeglin was just a bad elf as was his dad Eol.
maeglin wanted to kill tuor and earendil and take his cousin as wife. Eol tried to kill maeglin for staying in gondolin. maeglin told the location of gondolin to morgoth.
feanor was over-prideful. I for one dont consider him evil, but yes he was corrupted due to the lies of Morgoth intertwined with his pride.

Christiana · 06-10-2002, 11:12 PM

I get confoosled w/ the M names

webwizard333 · 06-14-2002, 05:40 PM

Also, keep in mind that when the Hobbit was first written, Tolkien was still working on the world of Middle Earth. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong), that he didn't intend at first to make it the introduction of Middle Earth.
Non of the species (including Valar and Maiar) inhabiting Middle Earth were all good. There were no perfect races, and elves could do wrong too.

Jador · 06-14-2002, 07:40 PM

Maybe It was an age old resentment for the Dwarves,stemming from the sack of Doriath,that made these Sindarian's want to caus trouble with the Dwarves.After all isn't Thranduil supposed to be from(or desended from someone from)Doriath?-Maybe he just don't like Dwarves,In which case, Curse Elves and thier stiff neck's!

10-11-2001, 11:28 PM	#1
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	thrandruil the greedy I can understand the men of lake town wanting some gold to claim as damage for the loss of their town. But wasn't Legolas's dad a bit of a greedy guy? Did he really have a solid claim? __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

10-12-2001, 12:39 AM	#2
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	He had some claim because of his aid in the Battle, but he does come across to me as rather greedy, yes. Not really a corrupt person, that is: not wicked, but a bit money-hungry. As a matter of fact he reminds me somewhat of Thingol, but less in might and wisdom. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

10-17-2001, 09:53 AM	#5
Strange-Looking Lurker Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: OK, USA Posts: 213	He was a greedy jurk, willing to risk the lives of his men for something he had no claim to whatsoever. His men were either brain washed or as bad as he was. __________________ <hr>Check out my site: www.christianjugglers.org

10-17-2001, 04:36 PM	#6
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	Right. Like his son, Legolas, eh? __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

10-17-2001, 05:04 PM	#7
Strange-Looking Lurker Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: OK, USA Posts: 213	Legolas, thank goodness, was not like his father. __________________ <hr>Check out my site: www.christianjugglers.org

10-12-2001, 06:32 AM	#3
easterlinge Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Farthest Khand, the darkest East... Posts: 442	Everyone's blasting Thingol......

10-12-2001, 09:18 AM	#4
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	Inoldonil wasn't the reason for his army being there in the first place ( before the orc threat) to claim gold? __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

10-17-2001, 06:10 PM	#8
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	Then surely the people he belonged to could be like Legolas, rather than 'brain washed or as bad as Thranduil is'? __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

10-17-2001, 09:52 PM	#9
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	I think there is something about Thrandruil saying he and his people were "ASSAULTED" by Thorin. I hardly think that Bilbo and co. assault the King in the forest, but if the king told is people that he was assaulted, then they may follow him for some type of retribution. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

10-18-2001, 01:37 AM	#10
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	i got this from galadriel's mirror Middle Earth Editorial #4 I really just don't think the Wood Elves have a leg to stand on By Thorin Oakenshield I'm sorry. I've mulled this over a thousand times now, and I STILL just can't see where those Wood Elves get off claiming a part of this treasure! This is baffling the hell out of me, and I wish someone could explain it. Okay, I'm cool with the lakemen. The burgler and Balin have explained it so I see. They DID save us from the barrels and they DID outfit us for this little expedition. And I suppose it isn't insignificant that they're pretty much responsible for that dragon not coming back and devouring us, so okay - fine. I'm okay with giving them a healthy share. Probably even more than the 1/12th they asked for. I'm also open to the idea of sending some gold back Beorn and Elrond's way. They actually HELPED us. But the Elves??? Come on! Okay, forget the fact that they waylaid us and locked us up in their dungeon and would have kept us there for time out of mind if it weren't for the burgler. Assuming that we're willing to forgive them for THAT little episode, I just do not see how they have a legitimate claim on anything! They hindered us from getting to the mountain, and they didn't do anything to rid us of the dragon. All they did was show up in force after the work was done. Is there an aspect of this situation that I am somehow missing? Please, if I'm being blind to some obvious fact of justice here, point it out to me and I will shower you with thanks! Is it OKAY to show up after any fight and demand a share of the spoils just because... well, just BECAUSE? I admit, greed and good old-fashioned dwarven gold-lust overtook me when I first got here. But I've quite come to my senses now and I am still forced to conclude that any school child would have to question this preposterous claim to our gold. Now of course, there will be those who think I'm some old miser who can't share and share alike. Well that's just not fair! I ask you, would it be legitimate for me and my dwarves to show up in Mirkwood and demand a little food and lodging just for no reason and with no payment? A-HA! The elves didn't seem to think so when they locked us up! But now that the tables are turned and we are the ones with means, the elves are all like: "Why can't you share?" Well, they're just breaking my heart. What vexes me the most is the fact that wether they get any gold or not, they're bound to benefit from the release of this wealth into the local economy. Why can't they be happy with the inevitable benefit to everyone that this supply-side bonanza will have in short order? If you ask me, those elves have a lot of nerve. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

10-22-2001, 05:38 PM	#11
Strange-Looking Lurker Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: OK, USA Posts: 213	I agree with Thorin. __________________ <hr>Check out my site: www.christianjugglers.org

10-23-2001, 09:50 PM	#12
Bregalad Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: KY Posts: 217	I agree with thorin as well. I think the elves in question were just pissed off that their prisoners managed to escape. makes them look bad, don't you know. To save face they had to make someone "pay"! either figuratively or literally. __________________ "They have called me that ever since I said yes to an elder Ent before he had finished his question" -Quickbeam This post property of Entmoot.

10-26-2001, 12:26 AM	#13
easterlinge Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Farthest Khand, the darkest East... Posts: 442	Thorin, aren't you dead? Maybe Thranduil's kingdom is in deep economic crisis. Them Wood Elves do import a lot of food, even exotic stuff like Dorwinion wine. How Thranduil pays for them is a mystery, his folk don't seem to export anything. I think the Kingdom has been running a deficit for quite some time. Erebor's re-establishment will surely drive up the demand and price of food, and the Dwarves flooding the market with cheap manufactured goods and gold will assuredly drive up inflation. Things aren't looking so hot for Thranduil's kingdom. This may be the catalyst for a meeting of the W.T.O. (Wilderland Trade Organization) ..... King Elessar will have to send somebody to mediate with them after the War.

06-08-2002, 12:02 AM	#14
Christiana Elf Lord Join Date: May 2002 Location: Searching desperately for a swan boat to take to Valinor Posts: 1,231	Elves are a pure, full-blooded,powerful people.They took no more than their due. __________________ I take full responsibility for my actions, except for those that are somebody else's fault Having someone to blame is nearly as good as having a solution to the problem Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you habe their shoes. ~Frieda Norris

06-08-2002, 05:38 PM	#16
Christiana Elf Lord Join Date: May 2002 Location: Searching desperately for a swan boat to take to Valinor Posts: 1,231	Eol was an "unwilling" elf, and Maeglar was his son. Feanor was just corrupted. __________________ I take full responsibility for my actions, except for those that are somebody else's fault Having someone to blame is nearly as good as having a solution to the problem Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you habe their shoes. ~Frieda Norris

06-09-2002, 03:50 PM	#17
Tar-Elendil Númenorean Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,050	maeglor? i believe ur thinking of maglor one of the sons of feanor. Maeglin was just a bad elf as was his dad Eol. maeglin wanted to kill tuor and earendil and take his cousin as wife. Eol tried to kill maeglin for staying in gondolin. maeglin told the location of gondolin to morgoth. feanor was over-prideful. I for one dont consider him evil, but yes he was corrupted due to the lies of Morgoth intertwined with his pride. __________________ Why can we not be sober..

06-10-2002, 11:12 PM	#18
Christiana Elf Lord Join Date: May 2002 Location: Searching desperately for a swan boat to take to Valinor Posts: 1,231	I get confoosled w/ the M names __________________ I take full responsibility for my actions, except for those that are somebody else's fault Having someone to blame is nearly as good as having a solution to the problem Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you habe their shoes. ~Frieda Norris

06-14-2002, 05:40 PM	#19
webwizard333 Elf Lord Join Date: May 2001 Location: myob Posts: 587	Also, keep in mind that when the Hobbit was first written, Tolkien was still working on the world of Middle Earth. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong), that he didn't intend at first to make it the introduction of Middle Earth. Non of the species (including Valar and Maiar) inhabiting Middle Earth were all good. There were no perfect races, and elves could do wrong too. __________________ Boo!

06-14-2002, 07:40 PM	#20
Jador Elven Warrior Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Land of my Fathers. Posts: 184	Maybe It was an age old resentment for the Dwarves,stemming from the sack of Doriath,that made these Sindarian's want to caus trouble with the Dwarves.After all isn't Thranduil supposed to be from(or desended from someone from)Doriath?-Maybe he just don't like Dwarves,In which case, Curse Elves and thier stiff neck's! __________________ 'Some who have read the book.. have found it boring,absurd or contemptible;and I have no cause to complain,since I have similar opinions of thier works...'-JRRT 'If he wins back to the caves,he will pass your count again... Never did I see an axe so wielded'-Aragorn Last edited by Jador : 06-15-2002 at 03:49 AM.