HP Vs. LoTR

[Lizra]

Well...I was thinking more of the way we talk to each other now. (Versus Tolkien's generation) We say and talk about stuff much more directly, we are more "upfront", more open....less formality, less hush/hush about feelings and emotions...you follow me?

[inked]

Lizra,

Yes and No. I think it is true that we discuss sex, sexuality, relationship-stuff much more openly between the sexes and same-sex. But, on the other hand, we are much more reticent about death and related subjects.

Did I get it?

[Ragnarok]

First of all, let me say that I couldn't care less which books are classified as adult or children's literature, nor could I care less how many years each series has been around. Another thing I don't give a darn about is how many Oscars your over-exposed movies won, since all Peter Jackson did was hire a special effects crew. Also, don't use the Rowling-stole-ideas-from-Tolkien excuse because that one is false. So, if you're going to provide a counterargument, please don't use any of those shallow reasons.

The author of this argument seems to forget it was the books, not the movies, that made Lord of the Rings great, so why mention Peter Jackson in the first place? The movies where his interpretation... not Tolkiens.

1) The wizarding world in HP is more difficult to conjure up than Middle Earth is. Middle Earth resembles more of a fantasy land than the HP world does. Tolkien just created a world that he could have easily invented while day-dreaming. His land includes mountains, rivers, grasslands, and little towns, all with unique names that he could have made up by picking letters out of a hat and then arranging them. When Sauron's not stirring up evil, Middle Earth is simple and boring. (Actually, even when Sauron is around, it's boring, but more about that later..) Rowling's world, on the other hand, is complex. She includes politics, social classes, problems in society, and elements that occur in reality. She takes modern circumstances and integrates them into a fantasy world. Many of the names that she gives to the places and characters are carefully chosen, either using Latin roots or some similarity to the object. The non-realistic factors in HP are also more complex than the ones in LOTR. For every magical creature Tolkien created, Rowling has made ten more. Also, Rowling's creatures have more to them than grotesqueness. There are several species, each with their own innate characteristics. Furthermore, you may call Quidditch a silly game, but I don't see anything that creative in LOTR. The HP characters are always learning and discovering new things. What are the LOTR characters uncovering?? That Smeagol is a deceiving villain?? That's about it. The magic in HP blows any fantasy elements in LOTR out of the water. In LOTR, people kill each other with mortal weapons. In HP, people kill each other with spells.

Have you ever heard of the Silmarillion? If not, I suggest you take a look at it and you will find that Tolkien's world is far more complex than Rowling's world. You are a fool, if you believe Tolkien just randomly came up with name and places of his fantasy world. Tolkien was a master of linguistics and very much developed his world around that.

2) The plots of the HP books are more intricate than those of the LOTR books. In LOTR, there is only one objective: Destroy the Ring, therefore defeat
Sauron. All Frodo has to do is make an obstacle course to Mount Doom, while the rest of the fellowship is off protecting him and killing ugly creatures. Sure, it's difficult for them, but there's not that much substance for the readers. All we really care about in the end is whether the ring was destroyed and if any of the characters died. In Harry Potter, on the other hand, you have to acquire all the plot points in order to understand the conclusion. That's because there are plot twists (example: Pettigrew is Scabbers and becomes Voldemort's servant), background information (example: the origins of the connection between Voldemort and Harry), and characters who die for reasons (Rowling has said that she killed off Sirius for later reasons; she didn't do it just so she could include some sappy moment a la taking Boromir's body to his father.) When reading LOTR, we know that Sauron would be destroyed by throwing the ring into the fires of Mount Doom. However, while reading HP, we have absolutely no clue how Voldemort would be able to be defeated. LOTR has no suspense - It just drones on and on with battles.

When talking about plot structures you must consider that both Tolkien and Rowling have very different writing styles. Whos to say which one is better, it is subjective to each person.

3) The characters in Harry Potter are far deeper than the characters in LOTR. Now, don't start talking about the Aragorn-Arwen-Eowyn love triangle (which is extremely stupid, by the way) or Sam's loyalty. Yes, the LOTR characters show great emotions, but that doesn't make them interesting. The personalities of the LOTR characters are either black or white. They're either good or bad, comedic or serious, skilled or unskilled. In reality, the behavior of people is not always that simple, especially in the life-or-death situations that the characters face. In HP, we are given the psychology of the characters. They each have complex personalities, they all have different motives, and they are affected by their own personal circumstances. The readers can identify with characters in HP. We've each known how it feels to be an outcast like Harry, or an academic nerd like Hermione, or some of us have had a troubled past like Snape has, or we've faced discrimination like Lupin does, or people have lost loved ones like some of the characters have. Even though they're fictional, they have qualities of real people. Not that many people can relate to the LOTR characters. War casualties may be of a high number, but the ordinary person has not fought in battle. Readers might be able to relate to the emotions of the LOTR characters, but that doesn't go as far as watching a character go through something similar to what you have personally experienced.

In Harry Potter the characters are more developed, that is true, however how does that make LotR less interesting? Once again, you are arguing through opinions not facts, not only are your statements asinine but they further discredit your argument.

4) Simply put - HP is more interesting than LOTR. LOTR is just a bunch of battle scenes and cool characters kicking butt. That's captivating if you're playing a video game. Like I said earlier, Middle Earth is boring even when Sauron is around. HP is much more complex and deeper than that. The overall themes of HP are more powerful. The main theme of LOTR is the battle between good and evil, which has always been obvious. The themes in HP are such as love is the greatest power and family is not always connected through blood - themes that people often forget when they need them most.

If you ask me, HP is a far more intelligent series than LOTR. I'm not just saying that as a biased fan, for I have given explanations above. To all of you LOTR fans who say that HP is a silly kiddie series - think again. To all of you who say that HP is boring, that's because it requires you to think intelligently and not rely solely on special effects.

A little advice to the author, when you are attempting an argument you need proof/facts to back up your thoughts, never base your argument over subjective opinion. It is your opinion that Harry Potter is more interesting and intelligent than LotR, however you have no proof nor will you ever. What I find interesting or intelligent may very well differ to what you find interesting. Give substantial proof that Middle Earth is boring, oh whats that.. you can't, yea thats right, its your opinion, not a fact. And what does special effects have to do with LotR books, nothing at all. We are comparing the books right? I suggest you also reread LotR because you have missed several important themes in LotR besides good vs. evil.

Btw, I have read both the HP and LOTR books.

By the ignorance of this post, I would have never guessed.

[Lizra]

Originally Posted by inked

Lizra,

Yes and No. I think it is true that we discuss sex, sexuality, relationship-stuff much more openly between the sexes and same-sex. But, on the other hand, we are much more reticent about death and related subjects.

Did I get it?

Sex!? No, that wasn't what I was really thinking of, I think there was a lovely veil of manners and formality, that has dissappeared...but I could be wrong.

[inked]

The lovely veil of manners and formality is what I would call courtesy, is that more what you had in mind?

[Minielin]

Originally Posted by inked

(But someone will argue that the palantiri were picture-phones of a rude and inept age...beware, there lies Mordor..... ).

Technology in Middle Earth

Heh.

[inked]

Zehr gut!

[inked]

Well, for some serious comparison for those who like that sort of thing:

Harry Potter is a Hobbit
http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/doc...s_a_hobbit.pdf


A long and interesting article from a respectable source and author.

[Mrs.Gimli]

You Do Have A Point But You Are Still Wrong

[rael]

Okay I might understand that you think hp is better than tolkien but It was recently discovered that rowlings copywrit alot of hp from a book wrote by a lady that did not sell so she was sued and lost In a court of law !

[Peregrina_Took]

I could spend hours and hours picking this apart until it turned into a little pile of splinters, but I'm not going to. All you need to do to make this 'argument' into an accurate statement is to switch the words 'LotR' and 'Harry Potter' around. Then, it would be much better.

[Pitchike12]

I not really fan of it but I think LotR is more awesome and I seconded HP.

[Galdor of the Havens]

Well...I rather vote for LotR, because it's the best book I've ever read since I was 8. My mom always read it to me before sleeping.

[Ulfsark]

As this is LotR forums obviously LotR is favored.

IMHO:
tFotR, tTT, tRotK > tPS, tCS tPoA, TGoF, tOotP, tHBP

but
tFotR, tTT, tRotK < tDH

There that was relatively unbiased. Oh, and see if you can understand the acronyms.