HP Vs. LoTR - Page 2

Lizra · 01-02-2005, 02:47 PM

Well...forgeting all the "god stuff"...

They are written in very different times...and the authors (IMO) style would be greatly affected my the changing world. JKR's world is so different from the professor's.....I agree with Minielin.

Minielin · 01-02-2005, 04:43 PM

Well, setting aside the deeper themes of good vs. evil and Christian references, which don't ever happen in any other books, I'm sure.

But you're right, parallels can be drawn. However, the styles etc. remain too different to possibly be able say which is "better" than the other.

**Nurvingiel** · 01-02-2005, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inked

Actually, useful comparisons can be drawn productively! See LOOKING FOR GOD IN HARRY POTTER by John Granger, or his THE HIDDEN KEY TO HARRY POTTER (if you are lucky enough to get a copy). For a blurb to the concept check out www.hogwartsprofessor.com and site articles. Also, I have read the "Harry is a Hobbit" essay recommended on the site, and it notes the parallels quite well.

Hm... interesting site.

In this article, I would argue that Voldemort is Dumbledore's "doppleganger", but maybe that's another thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by inked

That said, I do not think our original thread starter's cited article's author has these depths of perception in mind, nor the depth of the texts of either, IMHO.

Or even... the texts themselves, at least in the case of LOTR.

But I'm done poking fun at him/her now.

inked · 01-03-2005, 12:02 AM

O, Lizra, you are ALWAYS wanting to drop the "god" stuff! Comes of being an atheist, I suppose

, but I remind you that an atheist cannot be to careful of his reading per CS Lewis, .. or her reading in your case

!

Nurv,
Having the inestimable advantage of having read the recommended books at least twice each, and referenced them lots of times as I have re-read HP this year, Granger's construction of JKR's use is that Voldemort is Harry's doppelganger! Read S...L...O...W...E...R and digest!

(Sheesh, next you'll be arguing about Christian influence in Narnia!

)

**Nurvingiel** · 01-03-2005, 11:56 AM

I disagree, I still think Voldemort is Dumbledore's doppleganger. Though I think more along the lines of character foil. Hm... *ponders new thread*

Lizra · 01-03-2005, 01:56 PM

God, schmod.....

inked · 01-05-2005, 09:59 AM

God, scmod
Clod!
Created
Redeemed
Sustains
Artiste!
As Lizra,
So He,
Clod,schmod.
God.

Lizra · 01-05-2005, 05:47 PM

Clod?

Your brain is sod!

Prop
Crutch
Pie in the sky?
So the artist creates
of her own.
Inked
winked,
kinked.....

inked · 01-05-2005, 11:39 PM

Lizra,

Offense at clod?
I am besod
myselfy
thus you would take!
It's you recall
that makes Man
of earth alone.
Whereas, I
would say
of dust made,
to dust return!
And leave the rest
to God.

Love,
Your fellow clod,

inked · 01-05-2005, 11:43 PM

PS

Remind me Lizra, which primary color was it you made

?

The artiste/artist subcreates as Tolkien told.
So does JK Rowling as I have made bold.
The same for you I will vow.
It's just a difference in Who, not how!

Lizra · 01-06-2005, 12:15 AM

Oh! go plod with that old clod!

While I play with your clay....

Your verse does not make
A clear road to take,

And I wondered which way,
your words I should play....

I took my color from the sun,
And made "beauty" to please anyone
I can do on my own
No authors neccessary.....

**Nurvingiel** · 01-06-2005, 11:08 AM

Augh stop the poetry, make it stop!!!

I think we've all soundly decided that HP is not better than LOTR (and I don't think LOTR is better than HP either) because they are incomparable. Unless there are more comments... hopefully in prose.

inked · 01-06-2005, 11:16 AM

Lizra,

I only mean the best for you, of course!
So, in reading, English, Greek, or Norse
Ascription to deity, ultimate resource,
Puts cart properly behind the horse.
Artist to artist the story unfold -
Visual pastels or colors bold
Illustrate the stories told.
Authorian, Creatorian - unless sold
The lading bill that the gleam
Is due the polishers, who seem
It their duty to deem
They made the beauties' beam!
Learn rather to correctly assign
Lineaments sketched or bursting rind
Origin in Creative Mind
Concordances, differences: degree, not kind!

Hey, have you ever read THE MIND OF THE MAKER by Dorothy L. Sayers. I think you mind find it, well, illuminating, to use a visual image! A study of the creative artist as a clue to the meaning of the Universe! *

*warning, warning, warning, Will Robinson! explicit Christian content!

Lizra · 01-06-2005, 04:43 PM

Analyze, organize...line it all up.

Chicken....egg....yeesh!...don't be a schmuck!

While you study and read, and think you know all,
I'll create new, and answer the call...of the artist.

Thanks for the "tip" Inky ....but you should know by now that I don't like to "waste"

my time reading other people's ideas....I like to ruminate and luxuriate in my own! (Time's running out!

)

Lizra · 01-06-2005, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Augh stop the poetry, make it stop!!!

Ahhh! The only thing better than talking in rhyme, is aliteration!

I've found my soul mate (as far as making corny rhyming posts

) Dr. Inky-poo! I'm thinking of that old KC and the Sunshine co. song now..."Keep it coming love, keep it coming love, Don't stop it now, don't stop it now...."

Minielin · 01-06-2005, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Augh stop the poetry, make it stop!!!

please do... though I tip my hat to both of your inventiveness.

inked · 01-06-2005, 10:03 PM

ingrates!

**Nurvingiel** · 01-07-2005, 10:36 AM

Danger Will Robinson! Danger!

Aaaaand that will be my last post in the thread, unless someone has something new (and on topic) to add!

Pytt · 01-07-2005, 11:20 AM

good to see someone with sence here Nurvi

but your poems are fine, Lizra and Inked. maybe move them to writers workshop?

inked · 01-09-2005, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizra

Well...forgeting all the "god stuff"...

They are written in very different times...and the authors (IMO) style would be greatly affected my the changing world. JKR's world is so different from the professor's.....I agree with Minielin.

okay, okay, back on topic......THOUGH forsooth we never left the path!

I think JKR neatly isolates Hogwarts from these issues of technology by not letting technology work due to magical interference - accomplishing the same thing as Tolkien - by making the setting force us into looking at values and choices without the business and distraction of one's pager and cell phone and home phone all going off while the TV blares out further idiocy in large letters with the mute on! (Read that one ten times real fast

).

So in this way, JKR succeeds as well as Tolkien, and to a certain degree, better, as he did not have to deal with so many devices. (But someone will argue that the palantiri were picture-phones of a rude and inept age...beware, there lies Mordor.....

).

01-02-2005, 02:47 PM	#21
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	Well...forgeting all the "god stuff"... They are written in very different times...and the authors (IMO) style would be greatly affected my the changing world. JKR's world is so different from the professor's.....I agree with Minielin. __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats! Last edited by Lizra : 01-02-2005 at 10:57 PM.

01-02-2005, 04:43 PM	#22
Minielin Elven Warrior Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: I dwell in possibility. Posts: 247	Well, setting aside the deeper themes of good vs. evil and Christian references, which don't ever happen in any other books, I'm sure. But you're right, parallels can be drawn. However, the styles etc. remain too different to possibly be able say which is "better" than the other. __________________ "...then how shall I Revive the dying tones of minstrelsy, Which linger yet about lone gothic arches, In dark green ivy, and among wild larches?" Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum.

01-03-2005, 12:02 AM	#24
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	O, Lizra, you are ALWAYS wanting to drop the "god" stuff! Comes of being an atheist, I suppose , but I remind you that an atheist cannot be to careful of his reading per CS Lewis, .. or her reading in your case ! Nurv, Having the inestimable advantage of having read the recommended books at least twice each, and referenced them lots of times as I have re-read HP this year, Granger's construction of JKR's use is that Voldemort is Harry's doppelganger! Read S...L...O...W...E...R and digest! (Sheesh, next you'll be arguing about Christian influence in Narnia! ) __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

01-03-2005, 01:56 PM	#26
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	God, schmod..... __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats!

01-05-2005, 09:59 AM	#27
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	God, scmod Clod! Created Redeemed Sustains Artiste! As Lizra, So He, Clod,schmod. God. __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

01-05-2005, 05:47 PM	#28
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	Clod? Your brain is sod! Prop Crutch Pie in the sky? So the artist creates of her own. Inked winked, kinked..... __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats!

01-05-2005, 11:39 PM	#29
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	Lizra, Offense at clod? I am besod myselfy thus you would take! It's you recall that makes Man of earth alone. Whereas, I would say of dust made, to dust return! And leave the rest to God. Love, Your fellow clod, __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

01-05-2005, 11:43 PM	#30
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	PS Remind me Lizra, which primary color was it you made ? The artiste/artist subcreates as Tolkien told. So does JK Rowling as I have made bold. The same for you I will vow. It's just a difference in Who, not how! __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

01-06-2005, 12:15 AM	#31
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	Oh! go plod with that old clod! While I play with your clay.... Your verse does not make A clear road to take, And I wondered which way, your words I should play.... I took my color from the sun, And made "beauty" to please anyone I can do on my own No authors neccessary..... __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats!

01-06-2005, 11:16 AM	#33
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	Lizra, I only mean the best for you, of course! So, in reading, English, Greek, or Norse Ascription to deity, ultimate resource, Puts cart properly behind the horse. Artist to artist the story unfold - Visual pastels or colors bold Illustrate the stories told. Authorian, Creatorian - unless sold The lading bill that the gleam Is due the polishers, who seem It their duty to deem They made the beauties' beam! Learn rather to correctly assign Lineaments sketched or bursting rind Origin in Creative Mind Concordances, differences: degree, not kind! Hey, have you ever read THE MIND OF THE MAKER by Dorothy L. Sayers. I think you mind find it, well, illuminating, to use a visual image! A study of the creative artist as a clue to the meaning of the Universe! * warning, warning, warning, Will Robinson! explicit Christian content! __________________ Inked* "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

01-06-2005, 04:43 PM	#34
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	Analyze, organize...line it all up. Chicken....egg....yeesh!...don't be a schmuck! While you study and read, and think you know all, I'll create new, and answer the call...of the artist. Thanks for the "tip" Inky ....but you should know by now that I don't like to "waste" my time reading other people's ideas....I like to ruminate and luxuriate in my own! (Time's running out! ) __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats!

01-06-2005, 10:03 PM	#37
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	ingrates! __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

01-07-2005, 11:20 AM	#39
Pytt The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: trondheim, norway Posts: 1,388	good to see someone with sence here Nurvi but your poems are fine, Lizra and Inked. maybe move them to writers workshop? __________________ Don't Panic!

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