Will Sirius Return - Page 2

Gulio, Strength of Many · 06-21-2004, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sirigorn
I wish that Sirius hadn't been killed, but you know, I would be soooo disappointed if Harry found a way to contact him. Unless he dies and there's this scene up in heaven,

How do you know he's in Heaven?

I think it'd really suck if Sirius came back. Bleargh, the thought maketh me sick. I read in the newspaper a while ago that JKR cried for a week after writing that chapter, but wouldn't even tell her husband what was wrong (

). I don't think she'd do that if she were going to bring him back. And that would suck if she did, too

Elessar the Elfstone · 06-27-2004, 03:39 PM

i've just read the link from Fimbrethil further up the page and it also says that there was a reason for Sirius's death so somethings got to happen to do with him the the next two books has'nt it?

Elf Girl · 06-27-2004, 06:50 PM

Er... no... couldn't the reason just be something like giving Harry a taste of what life might be like as an Auror, or helping him grow up, or something like that?

Sono · 06-29-2004, 11:06 AM

I wish that Sirius hadn't been killed. I was realy sad as I read that chapter

I will be happy if he return, but I don't belive that...
He's gone, I think....

Gulio, Strength of Many · 06-29-2004, 07:51 PM

*Does happy dance* He's gone! Gone gone gone! Oh... right. Boo hoo, and all that. *Puts on flame-proof suit*

Tanoliel · 07-13-2004, 05:38 PM

Oh, pooh on you.

I was really sad he was gone--he was one of my favorite characters, along with Remus--but really I'm sad he went because he was such a link for Harry to his father, and the past and all. Remus is too, but Sirius seems more compelling--as a bit of a bad boy, flying motorbikes and the prankster best friend of his father--and that loss is (as much as I HATE the phrase) a huge character-building moment. (Uck. Got that outta the way.)

On the other hand...there have been some mentions that Sirius coming back would make his death "cheap." I dunno...it was sort of cheap to begin with. Okay--not cheap (ducks flames), but very, very....hmm. Hard to say. Just that it was shocking, but not because he died--because of the way he died. I read it, stopped, went, "hold on, what just happened?" It seemed very fast and unrealistic. Falling through a veil? What does that mean, anyway?
I guess the only thing I mean by that is that I wouldn't be suprised if Sirius "came back" somehow...or communicated somehow. Because his death hardly felt like "dying"--it didn't feel very real--I can see how he might be able to not actually be DEAD-dead.

(EG--Necromancy doesn't have to be cheap. Off-topic entirely, have you read Garth Nix?)

Lizra · 07-13-2004, 10:05 PM

Yep, you're right Tano! His so called "death" was cheap!

Not THAT sacred!

Elessar the Elfstone · 07-15-2004, 11:33 AM

finally someone believes he may not be 100% dead and that it may be possible for him to come back!!!!!

and I also agree his so called death was cheap!

Elfmaster XK · 07-15-2004, 01:37 PM

I think that perhaps the way Sirius died was done in that way to show Harry how easy it is to lose people. Like, a lesson in how the war is real, and dangerous, and people die. In war people are just killed. One minute they're there and the next they're not. In school Harry and the others have been relatively safe. This will show how it can happen to anyone.

And Sirius is gone everyone. Let him RIP.

Tanoliel · 07-15-2004, 03:56 PM

True, EXK....but I still think it was just a little too clean, if you know what I mean. Hmm. We'll see. (Argh, wish I knew now though!)

Rûdhaglarien · 08-13-2004, 03:07 AM

I was very nearly very angry with JKR for killing off Sirius. But, I got over it... sort of. And, I have to say, though I would be pleasantly surprised and I would probably *squee* with delight when it happened, I don't want him to come back.

It would just make it too fantasy, y'know? For me, the best part of fantasy is what links it to reality and yourself. Death is how JKR makes HP real, not fake. The death of Sirius helps to bring the story home and equalize it with out world; it allows us to touch the HP world and feel as if it could be real.

So... I wouldn't mind her bringing him back, and I certainly wouldn't complain. But, I don't believe, in any way, that it should be done.

Willow Oran · 08-27-2004, 02:53 AM

It doesn't feel like Sirius is dead in the strongest sense of the word. As far as I remember, there was the battle scene and he got hit with an unspecified curse and fell through the veil in a sort of literary slow motion and all that was said after that was that he was 'gone' and that the mirror didn't work. We know nothing about what was behind the veil, what sort of curse he got hit with or anything, all we know he that he fell and is presumed dead. We have nothing but the characters words to confirm that presumption and the author, the only person who knows for sure, isn't telling, and is known for throwing in surprising plot twists. I'm not considering any character in these books to be dead until either their ghost, or their corpse has been described to us in full.

As for characters not dieing in full being cheap, would you call Gandalf's 'death' a cheap trick? Glorfindel's? Wesley's, in the 'Princess Bride'? Aslan's?
It's an old trick certainly, but I wouldn't call it cheap.

Spock · 08-29-2004, 11:11 AM

Well Dumbledore did tell Harry that "he cannot come back" and indicated that the doorway was one way ..sort of a portal to lost souls. If "D" says he can't come back, I'd tend to believe him.

Lalaith_Elf · 08-29-2004, 06:02 PM

I don't think he's totally gone. He'll find some way to return, even if it is only for a few minutes. The mirror is still a bit of a mystery, and the veil....

I think that killing him off was a good move, as it was a death that affected Harry in a great way. Killing off another less-signifigant character wouldn't have had the same impact. It means that Harry has more hatred towards Voldy and the Death Eaters.

I don't think that we can say that there is absolutly no way that he's returning, because there has been too many questions about his death left uncovered.

Spock · 08-30-2004, 09:33 AM

Gee you are very optimistic considering that nothing like this has happened in the world of H.P.

Lalaith_Elf · 08-30-2004, 01:42 PM

Call it my 'being-forced-out-of-a-pessimistic-view-on-life' phase.

Spock · 08-30-2004, 02:33 PM

:lol:

Fimbrethil · 09-09-2004, 08:50 PM

I cna honestly say that I'm disappointed this thread is still in disscusion. JKR made Dumbldore say that Sirius was gone. His death wasn't cheap...but now I think it should have been suspected. He's not going to return JKr has basically told us that he's not. As I've said in other threads just reread the book. Everything we need to kow for the other books are staring us in the face. It just takes the right kind of mind to see them.

Spock · 09-10-2004, 08:27 AM

Indeed!

Fimbrethil · 09-11-2004, 04:49 PM

Are you agreeing with me?

06-27-2004, 06:50 PM	#23
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 3,419	Er... no... couldn't the reason just be something like giving Harry a taste of what life might be like as an Auror, or helping him grow up, or something like that? __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

06-29-2004, 11:06 AM	#24
Sono Hobbit Join Date: May 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 42	I wish that Sirius hadn't been killed. I was realy sad as I read that chapter I will be happy if he return, but I don't belive that... He's gone, I think.... __________________ Sorry everybody! My english isn't very good, because I'm a 9th grade student from Germany. ^^ I must say, its very difficuld to understand the postings at this page! At school we never learn this words! And I must know. I'm the besst student in my english class... But I try Wenn Sie mich suchen, ich halte mich in der Nähe des Wahnsinns auf. Genauer gesagt, auf der schmalen Linie zwischen Wahnsinn und Panik. Gleich um die Ecke von Todesangst nicht weit von Irrwitz und Idiotie.

06-29-2004, 07:51 PM	#25
Gulio, Strength of Many Lover of all things orange and cheesy Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: On a smokestack eating my the chekt. Posts: 1,045	Does happy dance He's gone! Gone gone gone! Oh... right. Boo hoo, and all that. Puts on flame-proof suit __________________ El Poco Diablo is watching you... It was like the Manifest Destiny all over again, except, instead of taking and consuming everything in their paths for God, they did so with the same fervor and sense of entitlement for their new god... themselves. If you want to know more about Jesus, have a prayer need, or want to talk about anything, PM me.

07-13-2004, 05:38 PM	#26
Tanoliel Eccentric Chocolate Crow Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The Emerald City--Seattle, WA Posts: 1,861	Oh, pooh on you. I was really sad he was gone--he was one of my favorite characters, along with Remus--but really I'm sad he went because he was such a link for Harry to his father, and the past and all. Remus is too, but Sirius seems more compelling--as a bit of a bad boy, flying motorbikes and the prankster best friend of his father--and that loss is (as much as I HATE the phrase) a huge character-building moment. (Uck. Got that outta the way.) On the other hand...there have been some mentions that Sirius coming back would make his death "cheap." I dunno...it was sort of cheap to begin with. Okay--not cheap (ducks flames), but very, very....hmm. Hard to say. Just that it was shocking, but not because he died--because of the way he died. I read it, stopped, went, "hold on, what just happened?" It seemed very fast and unrealistic. Falling through a veil? What does that mean, anyway? I guess the only thing I mean by that is that I wouldn't be suprised if Sirius "came back" somehow...or communicated somehow. Because his death hardly felt like "dying"--it didn't feel very real--I can see how he might be able to not actually be DEAD-dead. (EG--Necromancy doesn't have to be cheap. Off-topic entirely, have you read Garth Nix?) __________________ Wisdom for Short Attention Spans...Ozy and Millie. It rocks. Food Of The Gods: 3,7-dihydro-3,7-dimethyl-1H-purine-2,6-dione Feed Me.... Another Online Dwelling Place... "All right, I confess. It is my intention to comandeer a ship, pick up a crew in Tortuga, to rape, pillage, plunder and otherwise pilfer my weasely black guts out." -Captain Jack Sparrow "The trouble with unknown enemies is that they are so difficult to identify." -Amelia Peabody Emerson "Most people obey the orders of someone who is pointing a gun at their head." -A.P. Emerson

07-15-2004, 11:33 AM	#28
Elessar the Elfstone Enting Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Usually located Bree Inn of the prancing pony Posts: 59	finally someone believes he may not be 100% dead and that it may be possible for him to come back!!!!! and I also agree his so called death was cheap! Last edited by Elessar the Elfstone : 07-15-2004 at 11:35 AM.

06-27-2004, 03:39 PM	#22
Elessar the Elfstone Enting Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Usually located Bree Inn of the prancing pony Posts: 59	i've just read the link from Fimbrethil further up the page and it also says that there was a reason for Sirius's death so somethings got to happen to do with him the the next two books has'nt it?

07-13-2004, 10:05 PM	#27
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	Yep, you're right Tano! His so called "death" was cheap! Not THAT sacred!

07-15-2004, 01:37 PM	#29
Elfmaster XK Possessive Villain Fancier Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: On my ship, riding the waves YARR! Posts: 2,008	I think that perhaps the way Sirius died was done in that way to show Harry how easy it is to lose people. Like, a lesson in how the war is real, and dangerous, and people die. In war people are just killed. One minute they're there and the next they're not. In school Harry and the others have been relatively safe. This will show how it can happen to anyone. And Sirius is gone everyone. Let him RIP. __________________ My soul is painted like the wings of butterflies, Fairytales of yesterday will grow but never die, I can fly - my friends. XK

07-15-2004, 03:56 PM	#30
Tanoliel Eccentric Chocolate Crow Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The Emerald City--Seattle, WA Posts: 1,861	True, EXK....but I still think it was just a little too clean, if you know what I mean. Hmm. We'll see. (Argh, wish I knew now though!) __________________ Wisdom for Short Attention Spans...Ozy and Millie. It rocks. Food Of The Gods: 3,7-dihydro-3,7-dimethyl-1H-purine-2,6-dione Feed Me.... Another Online Dwelling Place... "All right, I confess. It is my intention to comandeer a ship, pick up a crew in Tortuga, to rape, pillage, plunder and otherwise pilfer my weasely black guts out." -Captain Jack Sparrow "The trouble with unknown enemies is that they are so difficult to identify." -Amelia Peabody Emerson "Most people obey the orders of someone who is pointing a gun at their head." -A.P. Emerson

08-13-2004, 03:07 AM	#31
Rûdhaglarien Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 288	I was very nearly very angry with JKR for killing off Sirius. But, I got over it... sort of. And, I have to say, though I would be pleasantly surprised and I would probably squee with delight when it happened, I don't want him to come back. It would just make it too fantasy, y'know? For me, the best part of fantasy is what links it to reality and yourself. Death is how JKR makes HP real, not fake. The death of Sirius helps to bring the story home and equalize it with out world; it allows us to touch the HP world and feel as if it could be real. So... I wouldn't mind her bringing him back, and I certainly wouldn't complain. But, I don't believe, in any way, that it should be done. __________________ I have a very expensive pen.

08-27-2004, 02:53 AM	#32
Willow Oran Deus Ex Machina Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,951	It doesn't feel like Sirius is dead in the strongest sense of the word. As far as I remember, there was the battle scene and he got hit with an unspecified curse and fell through the veil in a sort of literary slow motion and all that was said after that was that he was 'gone' and that the mirror didn't work. We know nothing about what was behind the veil, what sort of curse he got hit with or anything, all we know he that he fell and is presumed dead. We have nothing but the characters words to confirm that presumption and the author, the only person who knows for sure, isn't telling, and is known for throwing in surprising plot twists. I'm not considering any character in these books to be dead until either their ghost, or their corpse has been described to us in full. As for characters not dieing in full being cheap, would you call Gandalf's 'death' a cheap trick? Glorfindel's? Wesley's, in the 'Princess Bride'? Aslan's? It's an old trick certainly, but I wouldn't call it cheap. __________________ "5. Plain Rings with RUNES on the inside. Avoid these like the PLAGUE. -Diana Wynne Jones Tough Guide To FantasyLand ...it's not much of a show if somebody doesn't suffer, and preferably at length. Suffering is beautiful in any case, and so is anguish; but as for loathing, and bitterness... I don't think they belong on the stage at all. - Isabella, I Gelosi

08-29-2004, 11:11 AM	#33
Spock An enigma in a conundrum Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 6,476	Sirus Dead Well Dumbledore did tell Harry that "he cannot come back" and indicated that the doorway was one way ..sort of a portal to lost souls. If "D" says he can't come back, I'd tend to believe him. __________________ Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

08-29-2004, 06:02 PM	#34
Lalaith_Elf Her Infernal Majesty Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,188	I don't think he's totally gone. He'll find some way to return, even if it is only for a few minutes. The mirror is still a bit of a mystery, and the veil.... I think that killing him off was a good move, as it was a death that affected Harry in a great way. Killing off another less-signifigant character wouldn't have had the same impact. It means that Harry has more hatred towards Voldy and the Death Eaters. I don't think that we can say that there is absolutly no way that he's returning, because there has been too many questions about his death left uncovered.

08-30-2004, 09:33 AM	#35
Spock An enigma in a conundrum Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 6,476	Gee you are very optimistic considering that nothing like this has happened in the world of H.P. __________________ Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

08-30-2004, 01:42 PM	#36
Lalaith_Elf Her Infernal Majesty Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,188	Call it my 'being-forced-out-of-a-pessimistic-view-on-life' phase.

08-30-2004, 02:33 PM	#37
Spock An enigma in a conundrum Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 6,476	:lol: __________________ Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

09-09-2004, 08:50 PM	#38
Fimbrethil My microwave speaks to me Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Having conversations with my major household appliances. Posts: 937	I cna honestly say that I'm disappointed this thread is still in disscusion. JKR made Dumbldore say that Sirius was gone. His death wasn't cheap...but now I think it should have been suspected. He's not going to return JKr has basically told us that he's not. As I've said in other threads just reread the book. Everything we need to kow for the other books are staring us in the face. It just takes the right kind of mind to see them. __________________ Bah, Bah black sheep have oyu any wool? Yes sir, yes sir. Three bags full! One for the master, one for the dame, one for the little boy who lives down the lane! Bah, bah black sheep have you any wool? Yes sir, yes sir. Three bags full. I'll be gone for a while. But never fear! "I shall return anon!"

09-10-2004, 08:27 AM	#39
Spock An enigma in a conundrum Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 6,476	Indeed! __________________ Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

09-11-2004, 04:49 PM	#40
Fimbrethil My microwave speaks to me Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Having conversations with my major household appliances. Posts: 937	Are you agreeing with me? __________________ Bah, Bah black sheep have oyu any wool? Yes sir, yes sir. Three bags full! One for the master, one for the dame, one for the little boy who lives down the lane! Bah, bah black sheep have you any wool? Yes sir, yes sir. Three bags full. I'll be gone for a while. But never fear! "I shall return anon!"

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