Jackson got it right on the Scouring

[LuthienTinuviel]

not touching this one, no no no.

[IronParrot]

Hmm... I suppose I could dig up my old mega-posts on this subject, and just copy and paste, but maybe a capsule summary will suffice.

I suspected that the Scouring of the Shire would be dumped long before they even filmed the movie, and initially I was outraged, but after a lot of careful analysis - especially seeing what's been done with the first two films - I would agree that leaving it out is the right thing to do.

I could write a whole essay about this, but my key point is that cinema is a fundamentally visual medium. Its dramatic beats are created and transmitted to the audience through a visual means. Therefore, in the interest

Regarding Tolkien's original work, in many ways the Scouring of the Shire was the true climax, when you see the hobbits come into their own. It's got this sort of structure:

hobbit story -> hobbits get involved in the big picture -> big picture story -> Ring is destroyed -> big picture story is over -> hobbit character development is put to the test in final climax.

What's especially important to remember is that throughout the book - at the Prancing Pony before meeting Strider, at the Mirror of Galadriel, or when Merry and Pippin find pipeweed in Isengard, etc. - we are constantly reminded that all may not be well in the Shire. Look at the order by which the characters enter the story. The hobbits are introduced first, Strider and the rest of the Fellowship a fair bit later. The Fellowship finally disbands before the journey home. The Scouring of the Shire essentially serves as a bookend.

Tolkien is able to write it as a climax, because of structure. He is able to make it, in some ways, an even bigger finish than the destruction of the Ring. Why? Because he's working with words alone.

Let's look at the film.

In a film, the climax needs to be visual. (I'm particularly interested in how much room there will be between the destruction of the Ring and the Grey Havens.) My point is, unlike in print, on film there is no way to make the destruction of the Ring a "smaller" or "less significant" event than the fate of the Shire. Peter Jackson and company have committed to portraying LOTR on a large canvas, so it'd better stay on one.

I believe, furthermore, that the way Peter Jackson has done it, he's not shirking the responsibility of focusing on the hobbits and the sanctity of the Shire. I'm not just talking about the Mirror of Galadriel here. I am particularly fond of the scene with Merry and Pippin in The Two Towers after the Ents decide not to do anything, because it reminds us why the hobbits are even in this in the first place. They want to save the Shire. Even in the film of Fellowship, Frodo leaves the Shire with such urgency in the first place because he doesn't want evil to come to it - and that, if anything, is true to the book.

However: if the Scouring of the Shire was to be included - though I don't think it's happening - it would certainly be a good thing, if done right. Anticlimaxes in film can be very powerful if done properly. Exhibit A: Lawrence of Arabia.

Still, with what's been established already, it would seem out of place. There haven't been any clues as to the fate of the Shire, unlike the book. It doesn't make sense to include it now, and tack it on at the end.

Whoops, did I say capsule summary?

[Lizra]

As an emotional wimp, I'll be more than happy NOT to see PJ showing horrendous images of a ruined and raped Shire. Bag End in Galadriel's mirror was awful! (I love that scrabble piece rune!)

[Coney]

Originally posted by Lizra
As an emotional wimp, I'll be more than happy NOT to see PJ showing horrendous images of a ruined and raped Shire. Bag End in Galadriel's mirror was awful! (I love that scrabble piece rune!)

Bag End in seen through Galadriels mirror was indeed awful.....but it does make me wonder if the Scouring has already been filmed in full....................

[Hasty Ent]

Originally posted by IronParrot
However: if the Scouring of the Shire was to be included - though I don't think it's happening - it would certainly be a good thing, if done right. Anticlimaxes in film can be very powerful if done properly. Exhibit A: Lawrence of Arabia.

Unfortunately, Peter Jackson is no David Lean. In fact, imho, he isn't worthy of polishing the latter's boots.

Makes me wonder, had a director of Lean's caliber been involved what sort of Middle Earth we would have seen...

The Scouring wraps the story up for me, but I can see how a one-dimensional action flick couldn't have it as an ending.

[Gilraen]

Point well taken, IronParrot. I'm not a movie maker, but I've always thought the Scouring would be tricky to include in a commercial release. However, what's to be done about Saruman??

[Aralyn]

Exactly Gilraen!

What's he gonna do about Saruman? I mean they can't have someone else kil them can they?

I Love the scouring but it probably wouldn't work in the movie. Which is why the book will always be better than the movie!!

[Coney]

However, what's to be done about Saruman??

Good question!

Also raises the point of Gandalf (presuming the Grey Havens departure will have a scene).

In the book Gandalf was finished with the affairs of ME after Sauron fell. He "went for a long talk with Bombadil" what will become of Gandalf in the interviening years between the end of the 3rd age and his departure from ME?


Why do I feel RotK ending will be akin to the medal giving ceremony at the end of Star Wars?....only the ending will be Aragorns coronation....with the fellowship standing in front of Aragorns throne, grinning like a set of baboons.

[Aralyn]

Originally posted by Coney

Why do I feel RotK ending will be akin to the medal giving ceremony at the end of Star Wars?....only the ending will be Aragorns coronation....with the fellowship standing in front of Aragorns throne, grinning like a set of baboons. [/B]

Oh please no Oh please no! Another thing to worry about.
Actually that scene was dissapointing (in star wars)

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Coney
Why do I feel RotK ending will be akin to the medal giving ceremony at the end of Star Wars?....only the ending will be Aragorns coronation....with the fellowship standing in front of Aragorns throne, grinning like a set of baboons.

Amazing I thought the exact same thing. But I also saw that scene at the end of Jedi when they are all hanging out in the ewok kingdom and the ghosts of Darth and Obi Won are there with big huge "Yep I saved the universe" smiles on their faces just chumming it up. So imagine this:

Lothlorien. Elves are running about happy and gay as ever. Little hobbits have appeared in the scene for some reason and are running about playing little hobbit games. And theres all our heroes. Smug as ever looking over everything. And theres the ghost of Gollum! Now much mellower and more hobbit like winking over at Frodo who winks back at him. And theres Saruman whose seen the error of his ways and has come back from the dark side. And Legolas give Gimli a playful nudge who responds with a wookie like grunt and everyone laughs as the camera pans backwards. What a finish eh?

[Coney]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
Lothlorien. Elves are running about happy and gay as ever. Little hobbits have appeared in the scene for some reason and are running about playing little hobbit games. And theres all our heroes. Smug as ever looking over everything. And theres the ghost of Gollum! Now much mellower and more hobbit like winking over at Frodo who winks back at him. And theres Saruman whose seen the error of his ways and has come back from the dark side. And Legolas give Gimli a playful nudge who responds with a wookie like grunt and everyone laughs as the camera pans backwards. What a finish eh?

AAARRGGHHhh!! runs away ---------->

Actually it's this way <-------- but don't tell Black Breathalizer

[Gilraen]

Ouch! To your room you go without supper for even VISUALIZING that!!

[Insidious Rex]

*laugh* sorry. I guess you dont want to see my alternate Vegas chorus line ending where Gandolf reveales himself to actually be Wayne Newton.

[Insidious Rex]

Oh! Or the one where Frodo and Sam have destroyed the ring and everything is falling over and fire is spitting out of the ground and Frodo assumes they are doomed and is forlorn and Sam smiles at him and breaks into song: "Dont be so glum Frodo ol pal! The sun'll come out TOO-MOR-OW! BET YOUR BOTTOM DOLLAR THAT TOMORROW! THERE'LL BE SUN! TOMORROW!!! TOMORROW!!! I LOVE YA!! TOMORROW!!! YOURE ALWAYS..." etc.

[IronParrot]

Gollum bites Frodo's finger off - then Frodo awakens. It was all a dream.

[Blackboar]

Originally posted by IronParrot
Gollum bites Frodo's finger off - then Frodo awakens. It was all a dream.

*speechless*

You had BETTER be kidding!

*Stabs PJ*

[Fat middle]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
The trilogy is about the destruction of the ring. The Scouring, although great, was terribly anticlimatic.

You're lucky you didn't post that in the LOTR books forum. I understand that you're speaking of the film trilogy. LOTR books are not "about the destruction of the ring", they're much more about the Scouring and the passing of the elves, but Jackson has ignored that (at least in his movies).

[Black Breathalizer]

Wrongo, Fat middle.

The emphasis of both the LOTR books and the movies is CLEARLY about the destruction of the ring. Like all great stories, there are many great subplots too. Many of them are so strong that they can hold the reader's (or the audience's) attention past the end of the primary plot. But they are always secondary to the driving force of the main plotline.

I love ROTK. But there is no avoiding the fact that the book lost much of its edge once the ring was destroyed, the king was crowned and it was time for the crew to head home. I would suspect that Jackson will leave little time wasted between the destruction of the ring and the Grey Havens.

[markedel]

Actually the LOTR is also about the end of the age of myth-and the scouring is symbolic of this ending, this dramatic shift in the workings of the Earth. But when I first read LOTR when I was 11 or 12 I thought it was boring, and since the movies are action set-pieces (beautiful and well-done though they are) to have such a part in would not fit.

But if only...

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by markedel
Actually the LOTR is also about the end of the age of myth-and the scouring is symbolic of this ending, this dramatic shift in the workings of the Earth.

I will make a prediction: I'll bet that Jackson's ROTK will beautifully communiate the end of one age and the dawn of dominion of Man without the Scouring of the Shire.

Remember to say "Wow, BB, you were psychic!" next December.