What makes you thankful to live in a free country?

[jerseydevil]

I came upon this article on CNN about valentines being outlawed in Saudi Arabia and made me thankful once again that I live in a FREE country.

Saudis defy Valentine's Day ban
Sunday, February 13, 2005 Posted: 7:11 PM EST (0011 GMT)

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) -- The Saudi woman, swathed in black with only her eyes showing, circled a huge, red teddy bear, wondering if the plastic flowers stuck in the crook of its arm were too tacky.

She wanted this Valentine's Day to be perfect. She ordered 100 red roses to be delivered to her husband of a few weeks, bought him the largest-size bar of his favorite chocolate and planned to surprise him with a dinner party at her parents' house.

But there was one hitch: She had made the plans for February 12, thinking that was the day the rest of the world marked Valentine's.

Her confusion was not a surprise in a country where Valentine's Day is prohibited and religious authorities confiscate red items from gift stores and call the occasion a Christian celebration true Muslims should shun.

The woman, like others interviewed for this story, knew she was flirting with the law and spoke on condition of anonymity.

The kingdom's attitude toward Valentine's Day is in line with the strict school of Islam followed by the kingdom for a century.

Like Valentine's Day, all Christian and even most Muslim feasts are banned in the kingdom, the birthplace of Islam, because they're considered an unorthodox creation Islam doesn't sanction.

Beyond the ban, it's a challenge for couples to be together on Valentine's or any other day because of strict segregation of the sexes. Dating consists of long phone conversations and the rare tryst.

Men and women cannot go for a drive together, have a meal or talk on the street unless they are close relatives. Infractions are punished by detentions.

The muttawa, or religious police, mobilize a few days before February 14, making the rounds of gift and flower shops. As February 14 approaches, the flush of red fades.

Every heart, every rose and every item that's red or that suggests love and romance descends underground, to the black market, where its price triples and quadruples. Red flowers are hidden in back rooms.

Sheik Ibrahim al-Ghaith, chief of the 5,000-man religious police, told Al-Hayat newspaper his men were "acting upon instructions to confiscate manifestations" of Valentine's Day, birthdays and other celebrations.

"The feast of love is based on love and passion and things that are not proper for a Muslim to respond to," he told the paper.

Salesmen and waiters avoid wearing red; entrepreneurs whose stores maintain a red hue risk days in jail.

In religious lectures at schools, teachers and administrators warn students against marking the occasion, noting Saint Valentine was a Christian priest, according to an educational supervisor, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Saint Valentine is believed to have been a 3rd-century martyred Roman priest or bishop.

Why the holiday became a celebration of lovers isn't clear, but the theories are it stemmed from his February 14 feast date falling close to a pagan love festival or that it was because mid-February was seen in Europe as the time of year when birds start mating.

The supervisor said that on Valentine's Day last year girls lining up for daily morning prayer were inspected from head to toe by teachers looking for violations of rules that ban wearing or carrying any red item on the day.

Ribbons, boots, jackets, bags and pen holders with a hint, stripe or pattern in red, burgundy and hot pink were thrown into a heap, and the school called the girls' mothers to pick up the offensive items, the supervisor said.

Badr al-Buraidi, assistant to the head of the religious awareness department at a hospital, told Al-Eqtisadiah newspaper people have to be "persuaded that foreigners do not mark (Muslim feasts)."

"Why should we celebrate their feasts?" he was quoted as saying.

Despite the restrictions, Valentine's Day has caught on, partly due to satellite TV, where the occasion, like other holidays, is worked into the course of a series.

Shops call ahead
Shoppers who know where to look can find plenty of Valentine gifts: hearts that make kissing sounds and say "I love you" when squeezed, white teddy bears sitting on a red heart, lips touching, elaborate gift arrangements with "beating" hearts fitted with blinking lights and baskets of plastic red fruits.

Lingerie stores have rows of red, lacy lingerie, with one shop displaying a sheer negligee and the picture of a heart next to it.

In most cases, the gifts are not presented on Valentine's Day. A woman may not get permission from her parents to go out that night, and stores don't want to be saddled with the incriminating items when the muttawa begin making their rounds.

Shops either deliver the gifts or call recipients a few days early and ask them to pick up their presents.

Asked how long he planned to keep the gift items on display, one salesman said: "Until there's a change in the situation," referring to a possible muttawa raid.

Restaurants also are warned against creating a Valentine's atmosphere. One waiter, looking at his red apron and red placement mats, said he worried what the muttawa's reaction would be if they dropped by on Valentine's.

At the store, the Saudi woman said that because she was aware of the difficulties, she had ordered the 100 roses a week in advance.

Asked if she still wanted to mark the occasion February 12, she said: "Yes. I can't wait two more days."

[katya]

That's sad. I'd be screwed because an awful lot of my clothes are red. This is the kinda stuff that you would think pushes people *away* from organized religion. I guess I'll have to be extra thankful that I can wear a red shirt today.^^

[sun-star]

JD - thank you for posting that article. It's important that people know such things are happening, and are aware how privileged we are here



Last edited by Sister Golden Hair

[jerseydevil]

This thread is so you can give examples of why you are happy to live in a free country. People bitch about the thngs that are wrong - or about the election, but it seems like few people look at the many things we have. I would like to keep this thread on that topic. It seems to be turning into the typical "what is wrong" thread.

[Sister Golden Hair]

What makes you thankful to live in a free country?

That is the topic. Stick to it.

Not every thread has to become a political argument.

Just tell us what country you live in and what you appriciate about its freedoms.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Sister Golden Hair

What makes you thankful to live in a free country?

That is the topic. Stick to it.

Not every thread has to become a political argument.

Just tell us what country you live in and what you appriciate about its freedoms.

Thank you. At least someone understands what the purpose si without dragging a damn political argument into it.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Okay, let's try this again.

Stay on topic please.

[Insidious Rex]

SGH I just gotta say that was attrocious. The very idea of deleting selected posts in a thread supposedly about why we are better then them because we have freedoms is side splitingly ironic. At least you could have split off inked's posts about gay/religious free speech so we could have talked about that eslewhere. It was a very good topic to discuss. And really this thread should be called "Valentines Day is Banned in Saudi Arabia" since that was what Jersey posted. I could certainly make a strong argument for the idea that this thread being about "what we like about freedom" doesnt fit.

[Elemmírë]

I live in America. I've complained about it, and will certainly do so again , but I've got to give credit where credit is due.

The thing I like most about America is that I've got the right to complain about it without having to worry about getting thrown into prison, or worse.

JD, I've got a question for you. Last year in a politics class, we were told that burning the flag was allowed. My brother, however, this year argued that it wasn't. I did a search for it on the Internet just now and came up with this. I most certainly don't believe everything I read, so I don't know if it's true at all, but if it is, I'm certainly worried.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

SGH I just gotta say that was attrocious. The very idea of deleting selected posts in a thread supposedly about why we are better then them because we have freedoms is side splitingly ironic. At least you could have split off inked's posts about gay/religious free speech so we could have talked about that eslewhere. It was a very good topic to discuss. And really this thread should be called "Valentines Day is Banned in Saudi Arabia" since that was what Jersey posted. I could certainly make a strong argument for the idea that this thread being about "what we like about freedom" doesnt fit.

My dear IR, I find it attrocious that you question moderator actions in open forum rather than by email or PM. That is a violation of Entmoot's posting policies, as you well know.

The thread is not about why we are better than them, but about what you appriciate about the freedoms of your country, any country. Although Inked's post was informative, it was not topic related. And if you wish to discuss that topic, there is already the "Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual" thread. And as far as splitting hairs, the fact that the "Valentine's Day" issue is what prompted JD to start the thread, does not alter the fact that the topic is plainly statred. Like it or not.

Any further complaints regarding moderation should be addressed off the board.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Elemmire

JD, I've got a question for you. Last year in a politics class, we were told that burning the flag was allowed. My brother, however, this year argued that it wasn't. I did a search for it on the Internet just now and came up with this. I most certainly don't believe everything I read, so I don't know if it's true at all, but if it is, I'm certainly worried.

You can freely burn the flag - as long as it is your flag and it's not a matter of vandalism. As for that site you posted - I have no comment. It's rather off topic and that person seems to be one of those fear monger whiner types. I am personally agaisnt any amendment to protect the flag, as I have stated many times.

Now - back to the topic at hand which is about being thankful for living in a free country.

[Elemmírë]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

You can freely burn the flag - as long as it is your flag and it's not a matter of vandalism. As for that site you posted - I have no comment. It's rather off topic and that person seems to be one of those fear monger whiner types. I am personally agaisnt any amendment to protect the flag, as I have stated many times.

Now - back to the topic at hand which is about being thankful for living in a free country.

I didn't say you were for the possible amendment; I don't see how concerns relating to possible limitations of freedom is not related to a thread where you talk about why freedom is important to you is off topic; and all in all it's not overly difficult to stay on topic here, so I hope some of you (not you, JD) will stop complaining.

That being said, I rather like living in a country where I can read whatever I want (even if they are banned philosophical writings).

[sun-star]

There's not really a way to say this without sounding like I'm being sarcastic, but I swear I'm not I'm thankful for the free press we have in our country - its diversity, intelligence, and audacity. I complain about individual newspapers sometimes but I'm very glad we have such things - because I think freedom of information is as important as free speech, freedom of religion etc.

[katya]

I hosted an exchange student from Germany for two weeks, and he was interested in reading Mein Kampf, which is banned in Germany. He didn't agree with Hitler at all, but was just curious. I'm glad I'm allowed to read pretty much whatever (like Elemmire said).

Hm, what else? I'm thankful for the Bill of Rights and all rights contained in that. No use posting them all.

[Elemmírë]

I'm glad I can wear whatever I want, and listen to whatever type of music I want. I read "Reading Lolita in Tehran" by Azar Nafisi over the summer for college, and it definitely made me appreciate the sort of things that we can do here that isn't allowed in other places.

~Have long fingernails
~Paint your fingernails
~Wear make-up

It's strange that I remember things like that more than mentions of torture and murder in the book, I suppose. Perhaps it's simply that those are the sort of things I can better comprehend...

Sometimes I downright "girly", I suppose. But at least it's not a crime.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

thankful for right to follow whatever political ideology i like

[sun-star]

Originally Posted by Elemmire

It's strange that I remember things like that more than mentions of torture and murder in the book, I suppose. Perhaps it's simply that those are the sort of things I can better comprehend...

That was what most got to me about the article at the top. It's easiest to imagine the loss of the little things you don't even realise are freedoms, like buying flowers at Valentine's Day

[Elemmírë]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

thankful for right to follow whatever political ideology i like

And religion.

Except for Wicca, I suppose, which Bush doesn't consider a religion.

...ahem... 90 second rule... come on...let's go...grrrrr!!!!!

[Elemmírë]

Originally Posted by sun-star

That was what most got to me about the article at the top. It's easiest to imagine the loss of the little things you don't even realise are freedoms, like buying flowers at Valentine's Day

When reading the book, I couldn't help but stare at my fingernails and think... what's the point in having to cut them so far down that they start bleeding, in some cases... Where's the need to degrade someone by inspecting their face to make sure that they're not wearing any make-up?

I suppose it's shallow that it's the little things that matter to me.

Socially, if not legally, we're not quite as free as we think we are. Several of my friends have issues with the swastika being an unacceptable symbol... they're Indian, and in their culture, it was originally a sign of peace, I believe.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by sun-star

That was what most got to me about the article at the top. It's easiest to imagine the loss of the little things you don't even realise are freedoms, like buying flowers at Valentine's Day

Exactly - that's why I thought of the thread. It's these incredible little freedoms that you don't even think about - like the ability to have a red pen on Feb 14th and not have it confiscated. It really makes one think about the freedoms we have and the many we just take for granted and expect.