Words/names used in/similarities between Tolkien's works and old myths/languages

Falagar · 04-21-2003, 07:52 PM

I was thinking of making a list of!
Anybody interested? Here's a few names and similarities I've found in Tolkiens works:

1. Beorn is a synonym for 'man' in Old English

2. Gimli is a place where the dead come in Norse mythology

3. There were 12 powerful Aesir in old Norse mythology (compared to the 12 lords and ladies of the Valar)

4. There's a land where the "fair Elves" live in Norse mythology.

More to come, but I don't have time right now, and the book where I draw most of my "facts" from is not at hand right now.
Feel free to add names, words or other similarities yourself

PS. I've just bought The Monsters and the Critics, but has not gotten very far yet. There's a whole essay written by Tolkien on Beowulf!)

PPS. Sorry for the very confusing title! Had some problems forming it...

Ornelírë Mistë · 04-22-2003, 11:11 PM

I believe I read somewhere that Earendil was a name he found in some obscure text.
Beorn was a character in Beowulf.
Gandalf was on a list of Dwarves in an old northern Europe text.

Anglorfin · 04-23-2003, 02:11 AM

Errr let's see, there's a lot having to do with Norse mythology. The whole way Valinor is set up. The concept of the Halls of Mandos. You could compare Telperion and Laurelin to Yggdrasill the World Tree. There will be a "Last Battle" (Dagor Dagorlad in ME, Ragnarok in Norse myth)

The language of the Rohirrim is shaped mainly out of early Anglo-Saxon.

I know there are more but I'm too tired right now to remember a lot of them.

Inderjit Sanghera · 04-23-2003, 03:33 AM

I'm sure that 'Ent' is old English for giant.

Bombadillo · 04-23-2003, 04:16 AM

I'm listening to the special features on the EE Fellowship. Some guy's talking about 'wraith' sounding like wreath and wrath, suggesting that it would be something twisted and in a dangerous bad mood. There was another word he compared to also that suggested association with shape as opposed to substance.

Linaewen · 04-24-2003, 06:07 AM

Carnë in Quenya, meaning 'red' happens to also mean 'meat' in Italian.

Anglorfin · 04-26-2003, 03:45 PM

Oh I got a good one, this comes directly from BoLT. Originally Tolkien created Tol Eresse with the intention that it would one day become the island of Great Britain. Much of his early narrative that later became The Silmarillion is framed around the story of a traveler, Eriol, who came from Europe to Tol Eresse during the late Anglo-Saxon period.

Gwaimir Windgem · 04-27-2003, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Linaewen
Carnë in Quenya, meaning 'red' happens to also mean 'meat' in Italian.

I noticed that as well. I expect the Romance root is descended from the Quenyan.

***Earniel*** · 04-29-2003, 02:06 PM

I came across the name Hama (and some dwarfnames but I can't remember them exactly) in the 'Edda'.

The dwarvenrings remind me of the ring Draupnir of Odin. Each night nine (or three I don't remember) identical rings dripped from it. To possess it would mean to become wealthy.

Melko Belcha · 04-29-2003, 02:27 PM

1. Can't remember what language but I know Beorn means bear.

2. Letters #297

Quote:

As stated in the Appendix the 'outer' public names of the northern Dwarves were derived from the language of men in the far north not from that variety represented by Anglo-Saxon, and in consequence are given Scandinavian shape, as rough equivalents of the kinship and divergence of the contemporary dialects. A-S will have nothing to say about Gimli. Actually the poetic word gim in archaic Old Norse verse is probably not related to gimm (an early loan<Latin gemma) 'gem', though possibly it was later associated with it: its meaning seems to have been 'fire'.

3. There are 14 valar, not 12.

Elf Girl · 04-29-2003, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bombadillo
I'm listening to the special features on the EE Fellowship. Some guy's talking about 'wraith' sounding like wreath and wrath, suggesting that it would be something twisted and in a dangerous bad mood. There was another word he compared to also that suggested association with shape as opposed to substance.

But hold it- 'wraith' isn't Tolkien's word.

Bombadillo · 04-29-2003, 06:19 PM

Well that poses an interesting puzzle: what the hell was that guy talking about? Anyway I'd never heard the word before so I trusted him. I guess I should have known better than to trust one of PJ's minions.

Falagar · 04-29-2003, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Well that poses an interesting puzzle: what the hell was that guy talking about? Anyway I'd never heard the word before so I trusted him. I guess I should have known better than to trust one of PJ's minions.

But those blizzful days are gone, there's now no return...

I had many other similarities, but now I can't find that book!

markedel · 04-29-2003, 11:22 PM

Being a prof of such things I assume he used his knowledge-certainly the lays and such were based on well lays.

04-21-2003, 07:52 PM	#1
Falagar Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 2,870	Words/names used in/similarities between Tolkien's works and old myths/languages I was thinking of making a list of! Anybody interested? Here's a few names and similarities I've found in Tolkiens works: 1. Beorn is a synonym for 'man' in Old English 2. Gimli is a place where the dead come in Norse mythology 3. There were 12 powerful Aesir in old Norse mythology (compared to the 12 lords and ladies of the Valar) 4. There's a land where the "fair Elves" live in Norse mythology. More to come, but I don't have time right now, and the book where I draw most of my "facts" from is not at hand right now. Feel free to add names, words or other similarities yourself PS. I've just bought The Monsters and the Critics, but has not gotten very far yet. There's a whole essay written by Tolkien on Beowulf!) PPS. Sorry for the very confusing title! Had some problems forming it... __________________ Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle. Last edited by Falagar : 04-21-2003 at 07:57 PM.

04-23-2003, 02:11 AM	#3
Anglorfin Alasailon Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: college Posts: 861	Errr let's see, there's a lot having to do with Norse mythology. The whole way Valinor is set up. The concept of the Halls of Mandos. You could compare Telperion and Laurelin to Yggdrasill the World Tree. There will be a "Last Battle" (Dagor Dagorlad in ME, Ragnarok in Norse myth) The language of the Rohirrim is shaped mainly out of early Anglo-Saxon. I know there are more but I'm too tired right now to remember a lot of them. __________________ "and then this hobbit was walking, and then this elf jumped out of a bush and totally flipped out on him while wailing on his guitar." "Anglorfin was tall and straight; his hair was of shining gold, his face fair and young and fearless and full of anger; his eyes were bright and keen, and his voice like music; on his brow sat wisdom, and in his hand was great skill."

04-23-2003, 04:16 AM	#5
Bombadillo "The Bomb" Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: all over the place Posts: 1,601	I'm listening to the special features on the EE Fellowship. Some guy's talking about 'wraith' sounding like wreath and wrath, suggesting that it would be something twisted and in a dangerous bad mood. There was another word he compared to also that suggested association with shape as opposed to substance. __________________ Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity?

04-24-2003, 06:07 AM	#6
Linaewen Fair Dinkum Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,319	Carnë in Quenya, meaning 'red' happens to also mean 'meat' in Italian. Last edited by Linaewen : 04-24-2003 at 06:08 AM.

04-26-2003, 03:45 PM	#7
Anglorfin Alasailon Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: college Posts: 861	Oh I got a good one, this comes directly from BoLT. Originally Tolkien created Tol Eresse with the intention that it would one day become the island of Great Britain. Much of his early narrative that later became The Silmarillion is framed around the story of a traveler, Eriol, who came from Europe to Tol Eresse during the late Anglo-Saxon period. __________________ "and then this hobbit was walking, and then this elf jumped out of a bush and totally flipped out on him while wailing on his guitar." "Anglorfin was tall and straight; his hair was of shining gold, his face fair and young and fearless and full of anger; his eyes were bright and keen, and his voice like music; on his brow sat wisdom, and in his hand was great skill."

04-22-2003, 11:11 PM	#2
Ornelírë Mistë Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 482	I believe I read somewhere that Earendil was a name he found in some obscure text. Beorn was a character in Beowulf. Gandalf was on a list of Dwarves in an old northern Europe text. __________________ "Lot of people say this city looks like Hell," Allie said. She took a long drag from her cigarette. The glowing tip burned a hole in the darkness. "Most people never been to Hell," Jacob said. She looked at him and he could hear the smile in her voice. "And I suppose you have?"

04-23-2003, 03:33 AM	#4
Inderjit Sanghera Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England. Posts: 260	I'm sure that 'Ent' is old English for giant.

04-29-2003, 02:06 PM	#9
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	I came across the name Hama (and some dwarfnames but I can't remember them exactly) in the 'Edda'. The dwarvenrings remind me of the ring Draupnir of Odin. Each night nine (or three I don't remember) identical rings dripped from it. To possess it would mean to become wealthy. __________________ We are not things.

04-29-2003, 06:19 PM	#12
Bombadillo "The Bomb" Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: all over the place Posts: 1,601	Well that poses an interesting puzzle: what the hell was that guy talking about? Anyway I'd never heard the word before so I trusted him. I guess I should have known better than to trust one of PJ's minions. __________________ Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity?

04-29-2003, 11:22 PM	#14
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	Being a prof of such things I assume he used his knowledge-certainly the lays and such were based on well lays. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"