Book IV, ch. 7&8: The Journey to the Crossroads and The Stairs of Cirith Ungol

[Elanor the Fair]

Well, finally it is my turn and although I have been thinking about it for some time, it was still really difficult to make a start. I referred to Azalea’s guidelines for the chapter summaries and tried to keep this in mind. In the end I really enjoyed writing my summary. Thanks Azalea, for making this project possible. So, let’s start…..

Journey to the Crossroads

Frodo and Sam resume their journey after saying their farewells to Faramir and his company. There is a moment where Faramir gives them gifts at parting – just like the elves in Lothlorien. I couldn’t think of any other instances of gift giving at parting besides these two and wondered if there was any significance in this.

At first Frodo and Sam journey southwards through lush green forest then as their journey progresses, the forest opens up to a more wooded forest, with huge trees and grasses dotted with a variety of field flowers.

When I first read the book I was surprised that so much unspoilt forest could lie so close to Mordor. How did Ithilien remain so natural when it was at the very feet of Mordor?

I loved the journey through Ithilien. It always seemed like a bit of a respite for Frodo and Sam after the exhaustion of the Emyn Muil and its barren slopes and stony passages; the stagnant stinking marshes with the horrors seen beneath the water; the barren desert of the Noman-Lands; and finally the desolation of ash and fire-blasted rock that lay at the feet of the Black Gate. Do you feel that there was any effect on Sam and Frodo as they travelled through Ithilien compared to their journey before this?

The hobbits continue to journey southwards through the silent forest. As they get closer to the crossroads, the forest begins to change with much evidence of recent fires. It is on the third day that the darkness crept out of Mordor and covered the land with a grey twilight. We can feel the increasing tension here and so does Gollum. He becomes almost frantic with haste – why?

Frodo and Sam have a very lonely journey to the crossroads. In fact, their whole journey is one of isolation compared to the journey of the rest of the Company. Apart from taking Gollum as their guide and meeting briefly with Faramir’s company, they have interacted with no-one else since the Company parted. What effect do you think this had on their relationship and on their character development?

I feel that the journey through the green lands of Ithilien is part of one of Tolkien’s bigger themes. - A message that is predominant through this book – There is always hope. There are other references to this theme in this chapter –

Presently, not far ahead, looming up like a black wall, they saw a belt of trees. As they drew nearer they became aware that these were of vast size, very ancient it seemed, and still towering high, though their tops were gaunt and broken, as if tempest and lightening-blast had swept across them, but had failed to kill them or to shake their fathomless roots.

And where they see the fallen statue of the King at the crossroads…..

There, far away, beyond sad Gondor now overwhelmed in shade, the Sun was sinking, finding at last the hem of the great slow-rolling pall of cloud…… Suddenly, caught by the level beams, Frodo saw the old King’s head…. The eyes were hollow and the carven beard was broken, but about the high stern forehead there was a coronal of silver and gold.

This last part of the chapter is so beautiful and poignant. It tells us a great deal about Frodo and about Tolkien’s own message: “They cannot conquer for ever!”

[Elanor the Fair]

The Stairs Of Cirith Ungol

As Frodo and Sam turn towards the East there is a palpable difference in the way they feel. Frodo feels the weight of the Ring once more and all the companions feel weary and depressed. A sense of fear and horror comes upon them in the Morgul vale. Here again, Tolkien refers to nature, but in contrast to the fragrant meadow flowers of Ithilien the flowers here are …beautiful and yet horrible of shape … and they gave forth a faint sickening charnel-smell.

A dangerous moment occurs when Frodo feels pulled towards the tower. Do you think it is something from within the tower or the Ring itself that was compelling Frodo?

As they approach the stairs of Cirith Ungol, the weight of the Ring becomes a real burden to Frodo, he who found it so easy to bear in Ithilien. But, before they ascend the stairs, there was an explosion from Gorgoroth – and the enemy host came forth from Minas Morgal led by the Lord of the Nine Riders.

This is the second dangerous moment for Frodo. As he waited, he felt more urgent than ever before, the command that he should put on the Ring. …but he felt no inclination now to yield to it. …He knew that he had not, even if he put it on, the power to face the Morgul-King – not yet. And of course, the moment is saved by Galadriel’s gift!

This is an interesting passage. I really liked the way it is so tense and then is softened by the mention of Galadriel. Again, there is that theme – in the darkest despair, there is always hope. There are many other references to this theme in this chapter. What does this passage suggest about Frodo and what does it suggest about the Ring’s power? There have been times when Frodo could not resist the urge to put on the Ring. Why can he now?

After strengthening his resolve, Frodo and Sam, led by Gollum, begin the long ascent of the stairs – the Straight Stair and the Winding Stair. Finally they reach the top, and then comes that famous passage of Sam’s (from the movies – picked up and displaced) … The brave things in the old tales and songs….. I used to think that they were things the wonderful folk of the stories went out and looked for …But it’s not that way with the tales that really mattered…. Folk seemed to have just landed in them … But I expect they had lots of chances, like us, of turning back, only they didn’t. I wonder if we shall be put into songs or tales.

I very inspiring speech by Sam and evidence enough of how much his character has surfaced. These aspects of his character have always existed –Tolkien just allows them to fully develop and emerge as the book progresses. I really love Sam’s character: so simple on the surface but so complex underneath. Such loyalty, such pleasure in the simple things in life, such integrity – always doing what he thinks is right without concern for the opinions of others, such courage – always doing the right thing when it would be easier to do something else.

And then a little bit of irony from Tolkien… Why, even Gollum might be good in a tale, better than he is to have by you, anyway.

Then at the top of the stairs we have that moment of pathos where we see Gollum as a tragic figure.

Gollum looked at them. A strange expression passed over his lean hungry face. The gleam faded from his eyes, and they went dim and grey, old and tired. …very cautiously he touched Frodo’s knee – but almost the touch was a caress. For a fleeting moment, could one of the sleepers have seen him, they would have thought that they beheld an old weary hobbit, shrunken by the years that had carried him far beyond his time, beyond friends and kin, and the fields and streams of his youth, an old starved pitiable thing.

But then Frodo awoke and Sam, seeing Gollum touch Frodo, was gruff and ungentle and the fleeting moment passed. I wonder what would have happened if Frodo had not awakened at that moment or if Sam had spoken differently.

Tolkien always talked about applicability in his writing – we see our own parallels within his writing, which make it less of a fantasy and more like a history. What parallels do we see for Gollum in our own world?

These are great chapters. Perhaps not favourites for everyone as there are only three characters throughout, but they are insightful and full of poetic narrative. They reveal a great deal about the three travellers and are also full of some very moving passages. I’ve only touched on a few; there are many more. So over to anyone else who would like to add comments!

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Elanor the Fair

Well, finally it is my turn ...

Hello, and thanks

Frodo and Sam resume their journey after saying their farewells to Faramir and his company. There is a moment where Faramir gives them gifts at parting – just like the elves in Lothlorien. I couldn’t think of any other instances of gift giving at parting besides these two and wondered if there was any significance in this.

Would Tom's gifts from the Barrows count? That's a good question to think about - other "gifts at parting" times ... that's all I can think of now.

At first Frodo and Sam journey southwards through lush green forest then as their journey progresses, the forest opens up to a more wooded forest, with huge trees and grasses dotted with a variety of field flowers.

When I first read the book I was surprised that so much unspoilt forest could lie so close to Mordor. How did Ithilien remain so natural when it was at the very feet of Mordor?

Yes, that didn't seem to make sense to me, either. I suppose Sauron isn't omnipresent, and had other things to attend to and couldn't quite make it to Ithilien?

I loved the journey through Ithilien. It always seemed like a bit of a respite for Frodo and Sam after the exhaustion of the Emyn Muil and its barren slopes and stony passages; the stagnant stinking marshes with the horrors seen beneath the water; the barren desert of the Noman-Lands; and finally the desolation of ash and fire-blasted rock that lay at the feet of the Black Gate. Do you feel that there was any effect on Sam and Frodo as they travelled through Ithilien compared to their journey before this?

I physically feel relief as they go thru Ithilien! so I'm sure they did, too. And as I think about it, it makes getting back to the ugly parts even uglier. Maybe that's why Tolkien did that.

I feel that the journey through the green lands of Ithilien is part of one of Tolkien’s bigger themes. - A message that is predominant through this book – There is always hope. There are other references to this theme in this chapter ...

Yes, I think that's a theme of his, too.

This last part of the chapter is so beautiful and poignant. It tells us a great deal about Frodo and about Tolkien’s own message: “They cannot conquer for ever!”

Yes!! Woo hoo!!

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Elanor the Fair

Here again, Tolkien refers to nature, but in contrast to the fragrant meadow flowers of Ithilien the flowers here are …beautiful and yet horrible of shape … and they gave forth a faint sickening charnel-smell.

Yes, interesting - in Letters, he talks about how there is no such thing as pure evil, because that would be non-existence. Evil can only corrupt good.

After strengthening his resolve, Frodo and Sam, led by Gollum, begin the long ascent of the stairs – the Straight Stair and the Winding Stair. Finally they reach the top, and then comes that famous passage of Sam’s (from the movies – picked up and displaced) … The brave things in the old tales and songs….. I used to think that they were things the wonderful folk of the stories went out and looked for …But it’s not that way with the tales that really mattered…. Folk seemed to have just landed in them … But I expect they had lots of chances, like us, of turning back, only they didn’t. I wonder if we shall be put into songs or tales.

Yes, GREAT section! And here's one part where I like an addition in the movies, and as far as I recall it's not in the book - the "why did they keep going" question from Frodo, and "because there's good in the world, and it's worth fighting for" response from Sam. I don't think that's in the book, but to me, it's totally consistent with what JRRT wrote.

I very inspiring speech by Sam and evidence enough of how much his character has surfaced. These aspects of his character have always existed –Tolkien just allows them to fully develop and emerge as the book progresses. I really love Sam’s character: so simple on the surface but so complex underneath. Such loyalty, such pleasure in the simple things in life, such integrity – always doing what he thinks is right without concern for the opinions of others, such courage – always doing the right thing when it would be easier to do something else.

Yes, Sam's development is very interesting to watch

Gollum looked at them. A strange expression passed over his lean hungry face. The gleam faded from his eyes, and they went dim and grey, old and tired. …very cautiously he touched Frodo’s knee – but almost the touch was a caress. For a fleeting moment, could one of the sleepers have seen him, they would have thought that they beheld an old weary hobbit, shrunken by the years that had carried him far beyond his time, beyond friends and kin, and the fields and streams of his youth, an old starved pitiable thing.

But then Frodo awoke and Sam, seeing Gollum touch Frodo, was gruff and ungentle and the fleeting moment passed. I wonder what would have happened if Frodo had not awakened at that moment or if Sam had spoken differently.

Yes, that's a tragic and poignant part...

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Elanor the Fair

I wonder what would have happened if Frodo had not awakened at that moment or if Sam had spoken differently.

(my goodness - everyone must be on vacation! )

I wondered that too - but then decided that Gollum had already made too many choices the other way and could not have truly changed at this point. If Sam had spoken differently or Frodo not awakened, maybe Gollum would have been nicer for awhile, but then I imagine he would have been meaner after the mood passed.

But it does make you think about how your actions affect others - both for good and for evil - altho I don't think we can entirely (or even mostly) blame others for our wrongdoings.

[Elanor the Fair]

Thanks for your comments Rian. Let's hope everyone else comes out of hibernation soon!!

[CrazySquirrel]

When I first read the book I was surprised that so much unspoilt forest could lie so close to Mordor. How did Ithilien remain so natural when it was at the very feet of Mordor?

Yes it was surprising at the first reading. But Itilien is not at the doorstep of Mordor proper, it is at the doorstep of Minas Morgul. And that is a place of TWISTED BEAUTY, not desolation. The unspoilt state of Itilien fits well with the description of Morgul by Gollum and Faramir "The tower seems empty" "the dead city" and so on. The army of Morgul described in this chapter is an army of men, not orcs. It seems there never were lots of orcs in Morgul, and those who dwelt there were kept in check by nazgul. That made sense, as Itilien had to be the main source of food for Morgul troops. So orcs were not allowed to roam free and defile Ithilien.

Gorbag , the Morgul orc says: "Those Nazgûl give me the creeps. And they skin the body off you as soon as look at you, and leave you all cold in the dark on the other side. ...I tell you, it's no game serving down in the city."

[CrazySquirrel]

A sense of fear and horror comes upon them in the Morgul vale. Here again, Tolkien refers to nature, but in contrast to the fragrant meadow flowers of Ithilien the flowers here are …beautiful and yet horrible of shape … and they gave forth a faint sickening charnel-smell.

I loved the description of eerie, beautiful and twisted Minas Morgul... Interesting that right before we have a glimpse of the city, Faramir tells us some more of the nazgul story? We learn that the Ringwraiths were High Numenorean Lords.
Is it a coincidence, what do you think?

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Elanor the Fair

Thanks for your comments Rian. Let's hope everyone else comes out of hibernation soon!!

look, a squirrel came out of hibernation! (I love your avvy, crazysquirrel!)

Good point about Faramir's giving of info.

[CrazySquirrel]

Thanks, Rian.
Bur Squirrels don't hibernate in August! , even crazy ones.

CS

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Elanor the Fair

I couldn’t think of any other instances of gift giving at parting besides these two and wondered if there was any significance in this.

If you think about it, there is an interesting LOT of gift-giving in LoTR, right from the start at Bilbo's birthday after which Bilbo leaves. There isn't seemingly a gift in the book that does not have a significance. Even right to Sam's seemingly useless box of dirt.

For me that adds a certain charm to the book, and recalls to the old myths in which gifts sometimes also played an important role. It makes you look for a meaning into every gift.

When I first read the book I was surprised that so much unspoilt forest could lie so close to Mordor. How did Ithilien remain so natural when it was at the very feet of Mordor?

I thought it was because Sauron had conquered Ithilien only recently or that Gondor only recently pulled out and abandonned it, or was about to do so. Seeing that Faramir and his rangers still roamed Ithilien and pestered Sauron's forces and allies in it, I take it Sauron didn't have such a firm grip on Ithilien as he had on Minas Morgul and its valley, which were under his shadow a lot longer. It was indeed disputed land. It did require the loss of Os-giliath to the orcs, if I'm not mistaken, for Gondor to effectively stop going into Ithilien.

I loved the journey through Ithilien. It always seemed like a bit of a respite for Frodo and Sam after the exhaustion of the Emyn Muil and its barren slopes and stony passages; the stagnant stinking marshes with the horrors seen beneath the water; the barren desert of the Noman-Lands; and finally the desolation of ash and fire-blasted rock that lay at the feet of the Black Gate. Do you feel that there was any effect on Sam and Frodo as they travelled through Ithilien compared to their journey before this?

Ithilien is also my more favourite part in Frodo and Sam's journey into Mordor, the rest is very doom and gloom. Even though the talk in Ithilien with Faramir centers mainly around the ring, Frodo seems to be far less troubled by it in Ithilien. It is, both for characters and readers, a nice breathing space.

It is on the third day that the darkness crept out of Mordor and covered the land with a grey twilight. We can feel the increasing tension here and so does Gollum. He becomes almost frantic with haste – why?

I suppose it was because he daily was coming closer to Her, and also closer to a possible reclaiming of his Preciouss. Even though he still seemed undecided to the very end whether he should have gone through with it. Gollum is IMO the definition of a very messed up character.

Originally Posted by Elanor the Fair

A sense of fear and horror comes upon them in the Morgul vale. Here again, Tolkien refers to nature, but in contrast to the fragrant meadow flowers of Ithilien the flowers here are …beautiful and yet horrible of shape … and they gave forth a faint sickening charnel-smell.

The Morgul Vale, now this I've always regarded as a very gripping scene. There is this impressively eerie feeling about the whole place. The flowers, the sickly sheen of the tower... Thinking about it still gives me goose bumps.

Especially when it is followed by the equally scary scene as the armies of Sauron with their terrible commander depart to deliver battle in the West. One doesn't want to consider the consequences should Frodo and company have arrived just 15 minutes later.

This was one of the scenes I could perfectly picture in my mind, a pity the movie couldn't quite recreate it for me.

A dangerous moment occurs when Frodo feels pulled towards the tower. Do you think it is something from within the tower or the Ring itself that was compelling Frodo?

I think it was a combination: the Ring and the Witch-King. For the Ring this was a prime opportunity to return to his master: by revealing itself along with Frodo and his companions to Sauron's Second in Command. And the Witch-King was on home turf, with his armies behind him, the Ringbearer could not have escaped him again if the Ring could have revealed itself.

It goes to show how powerful Galadriel's phial was in the end to repress the Ring's influence on Frodo long enough to remove the suspicion of the Witch-King.