Blatant LoTR Copy-Cats

[ItalianLegolas]

Okay, in school my class had to watch "The Wizard of Oz", and me and my fellow LoTR nerds noticed some very obvious very much alike/stolen portions of the movie that were very much like the LoTR books! One such example is the "object of power", in the Wizard of Oz, the ruby slippers, in LoTR, the ring. Another one, would be a a huge gate where all the witches minions(which are orc look-alikes) march through, you guessed it, an enormous BLACK GATE, very much like the one that is the entrance to Mordor! My final such copy-cat is the appearance of short people, in the Wizard of Oz, the munchkins, in LoTR, the Hobbits!

I guess my point is, has anyone else noticed such LoTR look-alikes, or am i the only one?

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Dumbledore and Gandalf. They are both "wizards" and very wise and trusted.

[Elemmírë]

Gandalf and Obi-wan Kenobi...

There are a lot, many more I can't think of right now, but you can't always put it down to copy-cats. Some of these things are simply recurrent themes that not even Tolkien created, and I'm not about to accuse him of copying from Norse mythology or Christian theology...

[Aragorn]

Everyone copied from Tolkien. LotR is pretty much the ultimate fantasy story, so you'll see 'coincidences' in many popular movies/books/etc.

[Count Comfect]

I'd say most of those are just common themes... especially since the Wizard of Oz predates Tolkien.

[Nurvingiel]

I've got a real LotR copycat for ya. I can't believe someone hasn't said it already!

The Sword of Shannarah, by J.R.- I mean Terry Brooks.

I love this book, and Terry Brooks himself said later that it was a total LotR rip off (paraphrase).

Shae Ohmsford - Frodo
Flick Ohmsford - Sam
Jerle Shannarah - Gil-galad
Allanon - Gandalf
The King of Silver River - Elrond
The Skullbearers - the Nazgul

It's been ages since I read this, but I bet you could parallel pretty much anything.

[Elvengirl]

That book is awesome Nurv! One of my favorites besides LotR, of course!

Another trilogy that is a complete rip-off, but again some of the BEST books I have ever read, is The Iron Tower Trilogy by Dennis McKiernan.
In soo many ways it's almost identical. He even openly admits it. But I loved it and I'd recommend it to anyone.

Tolkien was the first to really write a successful fantasy series, so everyone seems to use him as their inspiration. I don't really mind, as long as the book is well written and hard to put down and I still acknowledge Tolkien as the ultimate fantasy writer

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by ItalianLegolas

Okay, in school my class had to watch "The Wizard of Oz", and me and my fellow LoTR nerds noticed some very obvious very much alike/stolen portions of the movie that were very much like the LoTR books! One such example is the "object of power", in the Wizard of Oz, the ruby slippers, in LoTR, the ring. Another one, would be a a huge gate where all the witches minions(which are orc look-alikes) march through, you guessed it, an enormous BLACK GATE, very much like the one that is the entrance to Mordor! My final such copy-cat is the appearance of short people, in the Wizard of Oz, the munchkins, in LoTR, the Hobbits!

I guess my point is, has anyone else noticed such LoTR look-alikes, or am i the only one?

If you study the meaning of the Wizard of Oz - you will notice that there is nothing in common with Tolkien. However - there are many scenes that jackson did that remind me of the Wizard of Oz. if anything - Jackson took from the Wizard of Oz movies. I have said before - that at the black gate - when Frodo, Sam and Gollum are there - it looks like the Scarcrow, Tin Man and Lion. I was just waiting for "oh ee oh - oh oh" to be chanted.

And as Count Confect states - the Wizard of Oz was written before Tolkien wrote the Hobbit or Lord of the Rings.

[edit]
For those who want to know the meanings behind the Wizard of Oz -

Muchkins - immigrants
Witch of the East - businessmen who took advantage of the immigrants
yellow brick road - gold standard
ruby slippers (in the movie) - I believe silver in the book - the silver standard
Emerald city - washington
witch of the west - nature (tornados and the causes of the dustbowl)

My recollection may be rusty on some of them though. But that is a general idea behind the meaning of wizard of oz.

[Elvengirl]

Hmm..interesting JD. I never noticed the Wizard being anything like Jackson's films, but know you've mentioned it, that scene is kind of similar.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Elvengirl

Hmm..interesting JD. I never noticed the Wizard being anything like Jackson's films, but know you've mentioned it, that scene is kind of similar.

I've mentioned several scenes in the movie forum - such as when Saruman and the orc are in orthanc (Fellowship of the Ring). It looks very similar to when the witch is telling the flying monkey to go after dorothy.

[Embladyne]

About copycats....if it can be pulled off, the retelling of a good story is a commendable accomplishment.
That said, I generally appreciate stories that more influnced by other works rather than rehashed. I do read my share of doujinshi and fanfics...and have contemplated authoring several (may they never see the light of day!)

But, if we are going to accuse others of "copying Tolkien" first we must know that everything he wrote was *original*. And it wasn't. In fact, that's why I like his work so much. It takes a great deal of the mythology that has always fascinated me, and puts it into the context of Middle Earth. I'm not saying that Tolkien didn't have original ideas. He most certainly did. Its is his integration of the world mythos with his own that make his work of Middle Earth such an epic accomplishment. And sadly, as much as I love other authors, none has quite felt as inspired as our dear Tolkien.

A couple of the belief systems Tolkien drew from (as Elemmire noted):
Catholism
Norse mythology (the Eddas)
(feel free to add more)

Actually, the source of Tolkien's inspiration is one of my favorite topics to discuss!!

[Elemmírë]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

I've got a real LotR copycat for ya. I can't believe someone hasn't said it already!

The Sword of Shannarah, by J.R.- I mean Terry Brooks.

I love this book, and Terry Brooks himself said later that it was a total LotR rip off (paraphrase).

I can't believe I forgot it...

I love that book too, Nurvs... Probably because it is so much like LotR.

It's more than just the characters, if you read the book side by side with LotR, the plot is almost identical. It's hilarious.

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

If you study the meaning of the Wizard of Oz - you will notice that there is nothing in common with Tolkien. However - there are many scenes that jackson did that remind me of the Wizard of Oz. if anything - Jackson took from the Wizard of Oz movies. I have said before - that at the black gate - when Frodo, Sam and Gollum are there - it looks like the Scarcrow, Tin Man and Lion. I was just waiting for "oh ee oh - oh oh" to be chanted.

You sure know how to ruin the movie for me, JD... I'm never going to be able to watch that part of it again without trying desperately not to burst out laughing...

I liked your list, btw. And yes, the shoes were silver in the book.

Originally Posted by Embladyne

About copycats....if it can be pulled off, the retelling of a good story is a commendable accomplishment.

Such as the Sword of Shannara.



[edited] btw... any admins out there? Should this be in GM?

[BeardofPants]

Originally Posted by Aragorn

Everyone copied from Tolkien. LotR is pretty much the ultimate fantasy story, so you'll see 'coincidences' in many popular movies/books/etc.

As Emblayne stated, Tolkien was not soley the originator of the fantasy genre, and his work bears the mark of many. Influences in his work derive from many other OLDER sources such as Eddas, Beowulf, etc. And remember, his work was undoubtedly inspired by his interest in etymology.

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

I was just waiting for "oh ee oh - oh oh" to be chanted.

Isn't that a bastardisation of "all we did, we did for her"?

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by BeardofPants

As Emblayne stated, Tolkien was not soley the originator of the fantasy genre, and his work bears the mark of many. Influences in his work derive from many other OLDER sources such as Eddas, Beowulf, etc. And remember, his work was undoubtedly inspired by his interest in etymology.

Yes - which has been argued when it comes to Harry Potter - like Tolkien - Rowlings uses many things from various mythologies.

Isn't that a bastardisation of "all we did, we did for her"?

I guess so. Is that what they're say? I don't know really what they are saying - it just sounds like a chant to me. Maybe I should watch it again and listen to it closely.

[Bombadillo]

Originally Posted by Aragorn

Everyone copied from Tolkien. LotR is pretty much the ultimate fantasy story, so you'll see 'coincidences' in many popular movies/books/etc.

Hence my sig. Tolkien is the god of fantasy. He created the fantasy genre, perfected it, made it so deep and detailed, and set all the guidelines for it. Everyone else in the fantasy genre has to pretty much follow him, and as of yet none have been able to come off as more timeless and awesome. His work is so powerful that people just absorb it and later that comes out in their own work, blatantly. Because he rocks. Rarely do people 'copy' him intentionally, but it's impossible not to, IMO.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Elemmire

You sure know how to ruin the movie for me, JD... I'm never going to be able to watch that part of it again without trying desperately not to burst out laughing...

No problem - it's good to laugh at jackson's hack movies.

I liked your list, btw. And yes, the shoes were silver in the book.

I thought they were. We studied Wizard of Oz in American history class when I was in high school.

[Elemmírë]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

I guess so. Is that what they're say? I don't know really what they are saying - it just sounds like a chant to me. Maybe I should watch it again and listen to it closely.

You never know... people were wandering down my dorm's hallway one night chanting the name of the college over and over... and it sounded like that "oh ee oh, oh oh"... I was thinking, "who's been watching too much OZ?" I'm lucky I didn't get a flashback to a LotR scene too... that would have seemed very bizarre at the time...

Originally Posted by Bombadillo

Hence my sig. Tolkien is the god of fantasy. He created the fantasy genre, perfected it, made it so deep and detailed, and set all the guidelines for it.

Fantasy, I disagree.
Modern fantasy, almost certainly.

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

No problem - it's good to laugh at jackson's hack movies.

You're going to make me hate them yet.

Next time my friends want to watch LotR in my room... I'm going to be kicked out for too much complaining!

[Embladyne]

I have a tendancy to just automatically hate movies based upon books until I've seen them and formed my own opinions....which usually end up with despising them...so it's all good. Although, good technique and beautiful photography I can still appreciate even when the story is worthless.

Hence my sig. Tolkien is the god of fantasy. He created the fantasy genre, perfected it, made it so deep and detailed, and set all the guidelines for it.

I too agree with El that Tokien did not create fantasy perse, but had a tremendous hand in influencing it's future direction, for which I am grateful.
Not Modern fantasy anymore, it's Postmodern....or, Post-postmodern....

Originally Posted by Elemmire

You never know... people were wandering down my dorm's hallway one night chanting the name of the college over and over... and it sounded like that "oh ee oh, oh oh"... I was thinking, "who's been watching too much OZ?"

I never thought about how similar they do sound....hmmm...though at college, you never know what's going to happen next.

Next time my friends want to watch LotR in my room... I'm going to be kicked out for too much complaining!

I'll complain right along with you...you heard me the other night, although for other reasons.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Elemmire

You're going to make me hate them yet.

Well then - all I can say is one down, and another success story for me opening up someone's eyes.

Next time my friends want to watch LotR in my room... I'm going to be kicked out for too much complaining!

See you will start complaining to them and pointing all these cliched hollywood hack things jackson resorted to in his movies - and then they will hate them and they will tell people and so on and so on and so on.

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

I have said before - that at the black gate - when Frodo, Sam and Gollum are there - it looks like the Scarcrow, Tin Man and Lion. I was just waiting for "oh ee oh - oh oh" to be chanted.

Lol! Same as Elvengirl, I'm going to have trouble not laughing there. But you can't take the love out of my love-hate relationship.

Anyway, I don't think there are any actual blatant LotR copycats. I think Brooks was more heavily influenced by Tolkien and later realized he inadvertently copied the works. Brook's later novels in the series (about Shannarah) are much more independent.

Harry Potter is definitely not an LotR copycat, though it does seem to get called that a lot. Two similar (yet very unalike) wizards does not a copycat make.