If Finrod had not died at Tol-in-Gaurhoth

[Ruinel]

We know that Finrod Felagund died in Tol-in-Gaurhoth defending Beren from the werewolf fulfilling his oath to Barahir.

But what if... he had not died in the pit? What if he had been rescued or escaped the Tol-in-Gaurhoth and returned to Nargothrond?

[Elf Girl]

Than I imagine he would eventually have gone West and married Amarië the Evil, and lived happily ever after.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Ruinel
We know that Finrod Felagund died in Tol-in-Gaurhoth defending Beren from the werewolf fulfilling his oath to Barahir.

But what if... he had not died in the pit? What if he had been rescued or escaped the Tol-in-Gaurhoth and returned to Nargothrond?

I think that had he lived and returned to Nargothrond, Nargothrond would not have fallen as quickly, because the defensive policy and policy of secrecy by Finrod would have stayed in place. There would not have been a bridge built over the Narog, and there would not have been armies issuing forth from Nargothrond, which is how it was discovered. Orodreth was an idiot, and although he wore the crown of Nargothrond, it was Turin that ruled that kingdom. Finrod would never have allowed another to sway him so easily.

I wonder what it would have been like had Finrod survived all the ages like Galadriel did.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Elf Girl
...married Amarië the Evil, and lived happily ever after.

o.O *thinking* ...married Amarië the Evil and lived happily ever after. Sorry... does not compute.

No, really... would he have opened up a can of whoop ass on Curufin (who I really can't stand)?
Would he have been able to stop Glaurung?
Etc., etc., etc.

[Sister Golden Hair]

I think he would have exiled the sons of Feanor, as did Orodreth.

[Elf Girl]

Originally posted by Ruinel
o.O *thinking* ...married Amarië the Evil and lived happily ever after. Sorry... does not compute.

Well, because of her evil-ness he was forced to love her, so it makes sense.

Originally posted by Ruinel
No, really... would he have opened up a can of whoop ass on Curufin (who I really can't stand)?
Would he have been able to stop Glaurung?
Etc., etc., etc.

But hold it. Does Beren die instead of him, or do they both survive?

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
I think he would have exiled the sons of Feanor, as did Orodreth.

I would have liked to have seen (err... read) that happen! Finrod, cleaning house, with his boot in Curufin's nacca!

Yes, I also think Orodreth wasn't the best choice for ruler of Nargothrond. He made wrong decisions! Finrod would not have done that.

{Well, I'm off for the weekend. Enjoy the new thread. I will check it when I get back. Namarië.}

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Elf Girl
Well, because of her evil-ness he was forced to love her, so it makes sense.


But hold it. Does Beren die instead of him, or do they both survive?

Off topic: Ack! Yes, yes... he was forced to love her with the spell... but he could never truely be happy with her. The spell is like a veil covering his true feelings. Something was always there beneath the surface. Pawing at him, nagging at him... but what it was was always out of reach. And when he gazed upon Rúnyél he had feelings but did not understand them. No, no... he could never be happy with her, not him, not my precious. (OMI, I'm obsessed!)

On topic: what do you think? Do you think that if he did not die, that Beren would have? Or do you think that Beren would escape with Finrod?

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Ruinel
Off topic: Ack! Yes, yes... he was forced to love her with the spell... but he could never truely be happy with her. The spell is like a veil covering his true feelings. Something was always there beneath the surface. Pawing at him, nagging at him... but what it was was always out of reach. And when he gazed upon Rúnyél he had feelings but did not understand them. No, no... he could never be happy with her, not him, not my precious. (OMI, I'm obsessed!)

I think I'm going to throw up.

On topic: what do you think? Do you think that if he did not die, that Beren would have? Or do you think that Beren would escape with Finrod?

I think that had Finrod killed the wolf without being injured, then he and Beren would both have escaped. Remember that timing had a great deal to do with it. Once Luthien showed up, that was it.

[Inderjit Sanghera]

It would've been a crying shame.....

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Inderjit Sanghera
It would've been a crying shame.....

What would have been a crying shame?

[Maedhros]

Originally posted by Ruinel
We know that Finrod Felagund died in Tol-in-Gaurhoth defending Beren from the werewolf fulfilling his oath to Barahir.

But what if... he had not died in the pit? What if he had been rescued or escaped the Tol-in-Gaurhoth and returned to Nargothrond?

If FF has survived and returned to Nargothrond, I wonder if he had taken his armies in the Fifth battle. I think it would have been very interesting if he did. Consider this for a moment:
1. Finrod's population was the largest of any Ñoldorian prince.
2. Finrod unlike Orodreth, was a wise Elf.
3. Would Finrod had the guts to go to battle and unite with the other Ñoldorian princes?

I think that the addition of the force of Nargothrond to that battle would have tipped the scales in favour of the Ñoldor.
If FF had gone to the aid of Maedhros, then when he was betrayed by Ulfang and Co, his host could have withstood this and it would have been possible the union of the east and west of the Ñoldor (Maedhros and Fingon). The Ñoldor almost won that battle, if they had the help of Nargothrond, i think they could have won, and deliver a blow to Morgoth.

If FF had gone to the aid of Fingon, then that host with the Aid of Gondolin, would have fared much better against Morgoth, and possibly have been able to help Maedhros in the east. A less strategic gamble but an important one nonetheless.

[Sister Golden Hair]

I agree. Finrod would definatly sent a great army to that battle I think. Could have made all the difference. Orodreth was a moron.

[Inderjit Sanghera]

What would have been a crying shame?

If Finrod had lived. It would've taken away the essence of sacrifice+pain for a common good, that is so important in Tolkien's works. Felagund would've felt betrayed by his people, after being driven out, unjustfully, due to the words of two malicous Elves, and their greed for the Silmaril's. It was better for him in Aman where he would be in peace, and with AMARIE rather then in Nargothrond.

Would he have been able to stop Glaurung?

NO. Finrod was not super-Elf. Even pyshically, he wasn't a match for say Fingon or Maedhros though spiritually he was easily their match.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Well, had Finrod still ruled, Glaurung would never have been there to begin with. As I said before, the only reason that happened was because the bridge was built over Narog, and Nargothrond was no longer a secret place because armies were issuing forth. Had Finrod been there, none of that would have happened.

[Elf Girl]

It is hard to keep a secret with armies issuing forth, isn't it?

[Inderjit Sanghera]

Well, had Finrod still ruled, Glaurung would never have been there to begin with. As I said before, the only reason that happened was because the bridge was built over Narog, and Nargothrond was no longer a secret place because armies were issuing forth. Had Finrod been there, none of that would have happened

I know, I was replying to a post on whether or not Finrod had enough power to withstand Glaurung.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Inderjit Sanghera
I know, I was replying to a post on whether or not Finrod had enough power to withstand Glaurung.

Ma Tante Andree has internet, woohooo!

Inderjit: I was not saying Finrod had special "powers". I mean could he have planned a defensive strategy that would have killed Glaurung or thwarted the attack and saved Nargothrond? Gee, I'm obsessed, not stupid. But as was pointed out, no bridge would have been build over the Narog.

SGH: yeah, I agree, Orodreth was a ninny. What was he thinking?

Maedhros: you've got some excellent points! *everyone stares in astonishment and says "she actually agrees with Maedhros?", yeah I do, so shut up!*

[Wayfarer]

Originally posted by Ruinel
Ack! Yes, yes... he was forced to love her with the spell... but he could never truely be happy with her. The spell is like a veil covering his true feelings. Something was always there beneath the surface. Pawing at him, nagging at him... but what it was was always out of reach. And when he gazed upon Rúnyél he had feelings but did not understand them. No, no... he could never be happy with her, not him, not my precious.

Sounds like you need chains. Lots and lots of chains. Ludicrous amounts of chains.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
Sounds like you need chains. Lots and lots of chains. Ludicrous amounts of chains.

What, are you Melkor in disguise or something?