Anduril's curse

afro-elf · 05-15-2002, 12:33 PM

Aragorn made some statement to hama at mesduheld(sp)
that i any man who is not an heir of elendil who ( touches or draws) can't recall which one Anduril would die.

That's the paraphrase.

how do you think this "curse" who be acted out?

they would be suddenly struck dead or would have a coincedenta death. like falling forward upon the blade.

barrelrider110 · 05-15-2002, 01:08 PM

Quote:

'Here I set it,' he said; 'but I command you not to touch it, nor to permit any other to lay hand on it. In this elvish sheath dwells the Blade that was Broken and has been made again. Telchar first wrought it in the deeps of time. Death shall come to any man that draws Elendil's sword save Elendil's heir.'

Interesting wording. If Aragorn meant that the sword was cursed, wouldn't he say "I warn you not to touch it" instead of "I command you not to touch it?"

Telchar, by the way, was a dwarf of the First Age. According to the encyclopedia of Arda:

Quote:

A Dwarf of Nogrod in the Blue Mountains, and one of the greatest smiths in the history of Middle-earth. Among his works were Angrist (the knife that freed the Silmaril from the Iron Crown), Narsil (the sword of Elendil, later reforged for Aragorn as Andúril) and the Dragon-helm of Dor-lómin.

So Narsil was made prior to the birth of Elendil, and it wouldn't make sense for the curse to be laid on anyone but Elendil's heir.
Perhaps a spell was placed on it in Rivendell.

More likely its a personal threat from Aragorn, something like:
"You touch my sword and I'll kill you!"

***Earniel*** · 05-15-2002, 01:32 PM

yes, I think it was only a warning to Hama that when Aragorn returned to retrieve his sword, Anduril could better still be where it was put in the first place.

***Khamûl*** · 05-15-2002, 05:11 PM

Maybe it's not a curse, but a warning that since Elendil's heir has returned, he'd have to kill anyone that touched Elendil's sword. That's what it sounds like to me since he commands him not to touch it and not to let anyone else touch it. Perhaps it would be his duty to kill anyone that laid a hand on it.

Tar-Elendil · 05-15-2002, 07:09 PM

i dont think any curses were placed upon Narsil.
aragorn was jes makin it clear if anyone touched it, he'd crack some skulls.

viggosbeard · 05-16-2002, 10:40 AM

I agree with the above - I think it was a threat more than anything else.

BeardofPants · 05-16-2002, 05:44 PM

Oh! That Anduril!

I dunno... it *did* manage to take on Sauron; doesn't that kinda denote it from other more "normal" swords?

Christiana · 05-16-2002, 06:44 PM

I man, really, Anduil IS Really valuble. Also,Aragorn has to be cautios(sp) about people hoo take 2 much intrest in this stuff

Tar-Elendil · 05-16-2002, 07:49 PM

its possible spells were places upon it at its forging..like the dragonhelm..when it was on someone's head, the wearer was not slain in battle..they were both created by the same dwarf..if you can find a description of narsil it says it shown witht he radience of both the son and the moon..obviously it wasnt just any "normal" sword

Eruviel Greenleaf · 05-16-2002, 07:56 PM

I would agree, I think it's just a warning from Aragorn, that he will kill anyone who touches it without his permission (which he most likely wouldn't give!)

Snowdog · 04-30-2003, 10:48 AM

Aragorn was a bit protective of his heirloom, and would probably kill anyone who drew it from its sheath other than himself.

Its good to find some decent book discussion in the back pages!

Psycho Kitty · 04-30-2003, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tar-Elendil
its possible spells were places upon it at its forging..like the dragonhelm..when it was on someone's head, the wearer was not slain in battle..they were both created by the same dwarf..if you can find a description of narsil it says it shown witht he radience of both the son and the moon..obviously it wasnt just any "normal" sword

yesh wasnt Gurthang cursed after all? could be the same type o thing.

Melko Belcha · 04-30-2003, 11:15 AM

The sword could not have a curse on it because Othar would have fallen under the curse when he carried the shards to Rivendell, and the Elven smiths who reforged the sword would have also fallen under the curse. I believe it was just a warning from Aragorn.

barrelrider110 · 04-30-2003, 01:24 PM

It's not just an heirloom, it's part of his destiny, and Middle Earth's destiny. It was part of Boromir's and Faramir's dream, and it was somehow wrapped up in the downfall of Sauron.

No I don't think it's cursed, and I don't think it's meerly Aragorn saying "if you touch my stuff I kill you." I think he's warning of the dire consequences to Middle Earth if it were to fall into the wrong hands.

durin's bane · 05-06-2003, 06:17 PM

I don't think there really is a curse. Since Anduril was part of Aragorn's destiny, someone before him must have made the "curse" up to keep people from stealing it.

***Rían*** · 05-16-2003, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Psycho Kitty
yesh wasnt Gurthang cursed after all? could be the same type o thing.

That's what I was thinking, too. From the Silmarillion:

Quote:

But as Thingol turned the hilt of Anglachel towards Beleg, Melian looked at the blade; and she said: "There is malice in this sword. The dark heart of the smith still dwells in it. It will not love the hand it serves; neither will it abide with you long."

(Anglachel was renamed Gurthang later on).

I don't think Andúril was cursed in the same way (evil), but it might be the same type of thing.

LeniFreak · 05-25-2003, 04:03 PM

No, I think it's different from the case of Gurthang. The entire passage reads as if "death will come" because Aragorn is obligated to deliver it; it seems to be a breach of honor, and not disregard for a curse.

Silpion · 06-02-2003, 11:22 PM

I tend to believe that the curse on Anduril was merely a warning to Hama to ensure that no one would touch the sword. But if I follow this line of reasoning then wouldn't that mean that he, Aragorn, would have to follow through with his words and bring death upon the person who touched the sword? Or, another thought I have is that Aragorn took that as an opportunity to name drop and "declare" his royal lineage with the intent of impressing upon Hama that his sword was not to be touched because of what it represented.

Beruthiel · 06-14-2003, 01:48 AM

Wow, somehow I can't believe that I've returned to find some info that I can offer!
(I suddenly feel so useful.)

Aragorn received a fantastic gold sheath for the newly-forged Anduril from Galadriel, during the gift-giving ceremony on the banks of the Anduin, in Loth Lorien.

She warned him very carefully:
`Here is the gift of Celeborn and Galadriel to the leader of your Company,' she said to Aragorn, and she gave him a sheath that had been made to fit his sword. It was overlaid with a tracery of flowers and leaves wrought of silver and gold, and on it were set in elven runes formed of many gems the name Andúril and the lineage of the sword.
`The blade that is drawn from this sheath shall not be stained or broken even in defeat,' she said.

I have read many an attempt at explaining the spells upon that sheath, and one of them was that only the true owner of the blade could draw the sword and live.

Think of his careful wording:
'Here I set it,' he said; 'but I command you not to touch it, nor to permit any other to lay hand on it. In this elvish sheath dwells the Blade that was Broken and has been made again. Telchar first wrought it in the deeps of time. Death shall come to any man that draws Elendil's sword save Elendil's heir.'

It is apparent that he will not "kill" the man who draws the sword from the sheath, for Aragorn as we well know is a nobleman, not a boor. No, the sword will take care of itself from now on. It's stainless, (stainless steel?!)
impervious to shattering (that's always nice) and kiils anyone who tries to use it but it's rightful owner, the Heirs of Elendil. Way cool. Galadriel was some powerful chick, no?

It is my opinion that the method of death will come not in slaying or poisoning, but as Tolkien was so fond of, accidental/unfortunate/destiny deaths such as those that happened in the tales of the Silmarils.

Aragorn was certainly decked out. Sword that takes care of itself, and Stone that heals and gives second sight? Awesome. Not for nothing did he rise to power so quickly, with Galadriel's help.

afro-elf · 10-14-2011, 11:41 PM

And years later I thank Beruthiel

AE

05-15-2002, 12:33 PM	#1
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	Anduril's curse Aragorn made some statement to hama at mesduheld(sp) that i any man who is not an heir of elendil who ( touches or draws) can't recall which one Anduril would die. That's the paraphrase. how do you think this "curse" who be acted out? they would be suddenly struck dead or would have a coincedenta death. like falling forward upon the blade. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

05-15-2002, 01:32 PM	#3
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	yes, I think it was only a warning to Hama that when Aragorn returned to retrieve his sword, Anduril could better still be where it was put in the first place. __________________ We are not things.

05-15-2002, 05:11 PM	#4
*Khamûl* Slacker Warrior Admin Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,759	Maybe it's not a curse, but a warning that since Elendil's heir has returned, he'd have to kill anyone that touched Elendil's sword. That's what it sounds like to me since he commands him not to touch it and not to let anyone else touch it. Perhaps it would be his duty to kill anyone that laid a hand on it. __________________ "If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you." Gandalf to Pippin Psalm 107:31

05-15-2002, 07:09 PM	#5
Tar-Elendil Númenorean Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,050	i dont think any curses were placed upon Narsil. aragorn was jes makin it clear if anyone touched it, he'd crack some skulls. __________________ Why can we not be sober..

05-16-2002, 10:40 AM	#6
viggosbeard Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey Posts: 247	I agree with the above - I think it was a threat more than anything else. __________________ You cant resist her Shes in your bones Shes in your marrow And your ride home You cant avoid her Shes in the air In between molecules Of Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide Only in dreams

05-16-2002, 05:44 PM	#7
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Oh! That Anduril! I dunno... it did manage to take on Sauron; doesn't that kinda denote it from other more "normal" swords? __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

05-16-2002, 06:44 PM	#8
Christiana Elf Lord Join Date: May 2002 Location: Searching desperately for a swan boat to take to Valinor Posts: 1,231	Anduril I man, really, Anduil IS Really valuble. Also,Aragorn has to be cautios(sp) about people hoo take 2 much intrest in this stuff

05-16-2002, 07:49 PM	#9
Tar-Elendil Númenorean Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,050	its possible spells were places upon it at its forging..like the dragonhelm..when it was on someone's head, the wearer was not slain in battle..they were both created by the same dwarf..if you can find a description of narsil it says it shown witht he radience of both the son and the moon..obviously it wasnt just any "normal" sword __________________ Why can we not be sober..

05-16-2002, 07:56 PM	#10
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	I would agree, I think it's just a warning from Aragorn, that he will kill anyone who touches it without his permission (which he most likely wouldn't give!) __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

04-30-2003, 10:48 AM	#11
Snowdog Dúnedain Ranger of the North Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: The Ruins of Arnor Posts: 892	Aragorn was a bit protective of his heirloom, and would probably kill anyone who drew it from its sheath other than himself. Its good to find some decent book discussion in the back pages! __________________ "I am an outlaw, I was born an outlaw's son. The highway is my legacy, on the highway I will run." Last edited by Snowdog : 04-30-2003 at 10:49 AM.

04-30-2003, 11:15 AM	#13
Melko Belcha Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Behind the Walls of Night Posts: 286	The sword could not have a curse on it because Othar would have fallen under the curse when he carried the shards to Rivendell, and the Elven smiths who reforged the sword would have also fallen under the curse. I believe it was just a warning from Aragorn. __________________ "....rapturous words from which ultimatley sprang the whole of my mythology" - JRR Tolkien Hail Earendel brightest of angels, over middle-earth sent unto men Crist by Cynewulf (lines 104-5)

04-30-2003, 01:24 PM	#14
barrelrider110 Peer of the realm of Sanguine Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Hill, Marlton, NJ Posts: 798	It's not just an heirloom, it's part of his destiny, and Middle Earth's destiny. It was part of Boromir's and Faramir's dream, and it was somehow wrapped up in the downfall of Sauron. No I don't think it's cursed, and I don't think it's meerly Aragorn saying "if you touch my stuff I kill you." I think he's warning of the dire consequences to Middle Earth if it were to fall into the wrong hands. __________________ “"I am the friend of bears and the guest of eagles. I am Ringwinner and Luckwearer; and I am Barrel-rider," Fear Complacency! ___________________ Something under the bed is drooling

05-06-2003, 06:17 PM	#15
durin's bane Lady of Westernesse Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Canada (Help! Our parliament building is melting!) Posts: 761	I don't think there really is a curse. Since Anduril was part of Aragorn's destiny, someone before him must have made the "curse" up to keep people from stealing it. __________________ Yada, yada, yada

05-25-2003, 04:03 PM	#17
LeniFreak Hobbit Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: In a small town in a small state in a...rather overlarge country Posts: 38	No, I think it's different from the case of Gurthang. The entire passage reads as if "death will come" because Aragorn is obligated to deliver it; it seems to be a breach of honor, and not disregard for a curse. __________________ "We are the people our parents warned us about." --Jimmy Buffett

06-02-2003, 11:22 PM	#18
Silpion Elven Warrior Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 103	I tend to believe that the curse on Anduril was merely a warning to Hama to ensure that no one would touch the sword. But if I follow this line of reasoning then wouldn't that mean that he, Aragorn, would have to follow through with his words and bring death upon the person who touched the sword? Or, another thought I have is that Aragorn took that as an opportunity to name drop and "declare" his royal lineage with the intent of impressing upon Hama that his sword was not to be touched because of what it represented.

06-14-2003, 01:48 AM	#19
Beruthiel Hobbit Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 41	Anduril's Sheath and The Curse Wow, somehow I can't believe that I've returned to find some info that I can offer! (I suddenly feel so useful.) Aragorn received a fantastic gold sheath for the newly-forged Anduril from Galadriel, during the gift-giving ceremony on the banks of the Anduin, in Loth Lorien. She warned him very carefully: `Here is the gift of Celeborn and Galadriel to the leader of your Company,' she said to Aragorn, and she gave him a sheath that had been made to fit his sword. It was overlaid with a tracery of flowers and leaves wrought of silver and gold, and on it were set in elven runes formed of many gems the name Andúril and the lineage of the sword. `The blade that is drawn from this sheath shall not be stained or broken even in defeat,' she said. I have read many an attempt at explaining the spells upon that sheath, and one of them was that only the true owner of the blade could draw the sword and live. Think of his careful wording: 'Here I set it,' he said; 'but I command you not to touch it, nor to permit any other to lay hand on it. In this elvish sheath dwells the Blade that was Broken and has been made again. Telchar first wrought it in the deeps of time. Death shall come to any man that draws Elendil's sword save Elendil's heir.' It is apparent that he will not "kill" the man who draws the sword from the sheath, for Aragorn as we well know is a nobleman, not a boor. No, the sword will take care of itself from now on. It's stainless, (stainless steel?!) impervious to shattering (that's always nice) and kiils anyone who tries to use it but it's rightful owner, the Heirs of Elendil. Way cool. Galadriel was some powerful chick, no? It is my opinion that the method of death will come not in slaying or poisoning, but as Tolkien was so fond of, accidental/unfortunate/destiny deaths such as those that happened in the tales of the Silmarils. Aragorn was certainly decked out. Sword that takes care of itself, and Stone that heals and gives second sight? Awesome. Not for nothing did he rise to power so quickly, with Galadriel's help.

10-14-2011, 11:41 PM	#20
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	And years later I thank Beruthiel AE __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

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