Horcrux [most definantly spoilerific]

Master'sBaneSwiftSnowmane · 08-10-2005, 11:46 PM

Ok, so the deal is that Dumbldore speculates that there are seven horcruxes and he knows of several and guesses several...but there's number seven that is not accounted for. Simply for reference and so that I can be righted if I am wrong here they are: 1) The Riddle diary. 2) The Riddle ring. 3) The Slytherin necklace. 4) The Hufflepuff goblet. (speculated) 5) Nagini (speculated) 6) Something of Ravenclaw's...not certain if it was mentioned and I'm being lazy so I'm not going to look it up at the moment. (speculated...I believe). 7) Dumbldore said that Voldemort would have tried to yoink (my own word for steal) something of Gryffindor's but, to his knowledge, Lord Moldy Shorts had yet to manage that. (This was also speculated)

Now, I've said this because there is, to me, an odd rumour that Harry himself is the seventh horcrux. I'd like to hear other views on this and views about my view. That being said: I think that, that rumour is slightly ridiculous. Dumbldore expressed to Harry how utterly foolish he thought it was to put part of his soul into Nagini(speculation) because the snake was a living breathing creature. So, why would Voldemort want to take that a step farther and put his soul into the body of the boy that a) he is about to kill and b) is supposed to bring about his downfall. I understood the horcrux to be a place to store one's soul, however, if that place was destroied then so was that piece of your soul so would you want to kill (destroy) the thing that you were putting your soul into? It also seems foolish because you wouldn't want to give the boy whom you believed was prophesied to be your downfall that much leverage over you.

Anyway...that's just what I think. If my reasoning is horribly faulty bash me over the head with something large and blunt please.

durinsbane2244 · 08-11-2005, 12:52 AM

i just had a thught, what if he didn't make harry a horcruk until the 4th book(when he killed diggory), because he realized that if he escaped again, he would have to die himslef to defeat voldemort?(dum dum duuuum)

***Khamûl*** · 08-12-2005, 12:12 AM

That's an interesting theory durinsbane2244, but I don't think it works because Voldemort doesn't do anything with Harry except use some of his blood to regenerate a body. And he tries to kill him too, but he doesn't use any kind of spell to intentionally make him a Horcrux.

My line of thinking on the "Harry is a Horcrux" theory is that Voldemort inadvertantly put some of his soul into Harry when he tried to kill him. We know that some of Voldemort's powers, like being a Parselmouth, transferred to Harry when that happened. I posted a quote from Chamber of Secrets pertaining to this in the Half-Blood Prince thread. There is also some unexplained link between the two, such as Harry being able to feel what Voldemort is feeling at times. And don't forget what Harry feels when Dumbledore looks at him in Order of the Phoenix: I seem to remember the feeling being described something like "as though Harry had a snake inside him".

Telcontar_Dunedain · 08-12-2005, 09:54 AM

And Dumbledore does tell Harry that Voldemort 'transferd some of his powers into him that night' so that could bear some weight.

Master'sBaneSwiftSnowmane · 08-12-2005, 10:07 AM

So...your thinking is that Voldemort accidentally made Harry a horcrux? That, to me, is far more believable than him intending to do it. Still, is it possible to unintentionally make someone a horcrux? I would that it would be a rather complicated process, made even more complicated since Harry isn't an inanimate object.

The whole "snake inside him" phrase I equivocated to having butterflies in your stomach when your nervous. I didn't take it literal...perhaps I should have?

durinsbane2244 · 08-12-2005, 02:30 PM

also, if he did inadvertantly make him a horcrux, would he know, and if not, would he make another and thus have eight?

***Khamûl*** · 08-13-2005, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master'sBaneSwiftSnowmane

So...your thinking is that Voldemort accidentally made Harry a horcrux? That, to me, is far more believable than him intending to do it. Still, is it possible to unintentionally make someone a horcrux? I would that it would be a rather complicated process, made even more complicated since Harry isn't an inanimate object.

Yes, that's the way I'm leaning. I don't know if it's possible to make a Horcrux unintentionally, but something happened that night between Harry and Voldemort.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master'sBaneSwiftSnowmane

The whole "snake inside him" phrase I equivocated to having butterflies in your stomach when your nervous. I didn't take it literal...perhaps I should have?

If you go back and read earlier books in the series, you pick up hints of things to come. On page 221 of Sorcerer's Stone and page 79 of Chamber of Secrets (both American paperback editions), Harry gets the impression that Snape can read minds. I don't think anyone took this literally, but only as a figure of speech for a penetrating glare. However, we find out in Order of the Phoenix that Snape can in fact read minds, making a literal interpretation 100% correct. I think the "snake inside him" description should probably be taken literally, especially given the relationship of Voldemort to snakes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by durinsbane2244

also, if he did inadvertantly make him a horcrux, would he know, and if not, would he make another and thus have eight?

That's certainly a possibility. I don't believe he knows when a Horcrux is destroyed, so he might not know that a part of his soul accidentally passed into someone else. He was intending to make a Horcrux out of Harry's death, but that backfired, as we all know, and I don't believe he made his intended number (intentionally). If there are eight, he would have had to have made one after his return to power in Goblet of Fire because I think he would have been too weak before.

If anything I've said hasn't made any sense or if any fact I've stated is inaccurate, I apologize. It's late and I'm tired.

**Nurvingiel** · 08-16-2005, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

And Dumbledore does tell Harry that Voldemort 'transferd some of his powers into him that night' so that could bear some weight.

That's a good point, but what we know about Horcruxes leads me to believe you have to put a piece of your soul into a certain object on purpose. It seems like you have to focus on the receiving object so strongly that you couldn't just accidentally put it into the person you were trying to kill. Otherwise, why wouldn't there just be a bunch of dead body Horcruxes lying around? Every time someone killed someone they'd lose a piece of their soul (size undetermined). (One could argue that this already happens, but Rowling's description of Horcruxes includes, IMO, the impression that souls are of a finite amount.)

Dumbledore said that one of Voldemort's soul pieces must be inside him, leaving six roaming about. One was in the destroyed Diary, and one is the locket obtained by R.A.B. (I agree with Tomstheman about Regulus Black), so only four are up for speculation. I think all your speculations are right on MBSSnowmane, except something of Gryffindor's.

As much as Voldemort would have liked something of his, the Sorting Hat and the Sword remain safely in the Headmaster's office. Maybe this is some subtle symbolism that Voldemort can't own part of Harry, or that Harry is free to make his own choices or something.

Spock · 08-16-2005, 11:57 AM

Wow, you guys really think these things out. I'm not convinced that H. would be a host as we all have been lead to believe that he and HWWNBN must duel and only one (HP we hope) will remain alive. It seems unlikely, given the story so far that H would be a HX.

Radagast The Brown · 08-17-2005, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Dumbledore said that one of Voldemort's soul pieces must be inside him, leaving six roaming about. One was in the destroyed Diary, and one is the locket obtained by R.A.B. (I agree with Tomstheman about Regulus Black), so only four are up for speculation. I think all your speculations are right on MBSSnowmane, except something of Gryffindor's.

Only 3.. There's the locket, diary, and ring we know about, plus Voldemort himself.

By the way... Regulus Black needed help, just like Dumbledore needed, getting the locket.. wonder from who?

08-10-2005, 11:46 PM	#1
Master'sBaneSwiftSnowmane Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 103	Horcrux [most definantly spoilerific] Ok, so the deal is that Dumbldore speculates that there are seven horcruxes and he knows of several and guesses several...but there's number seven that is not accounted for. Simply for reference and so that I can be righted if I am wrong here they are: 1) The Riddle diary. 2) The Riddle ring. 3) The Slytherin necklace. 4) The Hufflepuff goblet. (speculated) 5) Nagini (speculated) 6) Something of Ravenclaw's...not certain if it was mentioned and I'm being lazy so I'm not going to look it up at the moment. (speculated...I believe). 7) Dumbldore said that Voldemort would have tried to yoink (my own word for steal) something of Gryffindor's but, to his knowledge, Lord Moldy Shorts had yet to manage that. (This was also speculated) Now, I've said this because there is, to me, an odd rumour that Harry himself is the seventh horcrux. I'd like to hear other views on this and views about my view. That being said: I think that, that rumour is slightly ridiculous. Dumbldore expressed to Harry how utterly foolish he thought it was to put part of his soul into Nagini(speculation) because the snake was a living breathing creature. So, why would Voldemort want to take that a step farther and put his soul into the body of the boy that a) he is about to kill and b) is supposed to bring about his downfall. I understood the horcrux to be a place to store one's soul, however, if that place was destroied then so was that piece of your soul so would you want to kill (destroy) the thing that you were putting your soul into? It also seems foolish because you wouldn't want to give the boy whom you believed was prophesied to be your downfall that much leverage over you. Anyway...that's just what I think. If my reasoning is horribly faulty bash me over the head with something large and blunt please. __________________ "Not only did my encounters with voters confirm the fundamental decency of the American people, they also reminded me that at the core of the American experience are a set of ideals that continue to stir our collective conscience; a common set of values that bind us together despite our differences; a running thread of hope that makes our improbable experiment in democracy work..." Barack Obama, The Audacity of Hope

08-11-2005, 12:52 AM	#2
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	i just had a thught, what if he didn't make harry a horcruk until the 4th book(when he killed diggory), because he realized that if he escaped again, he would have to die himslef to defeat voldemort?(dum dum duuuum) __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih...

08-12-2005, 12:12 AM	#3
*Khamûl* Slacker Warrior Admin Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,759	That's an interesting theory durinsbane2244, but I don't think it works because Voldemort doesn't do anything with Harry except use some of his blood to regenerate a body. And he tries to kill him too, but he doesn't use any kind of spell to intentionally make him a Horcrux. My line of thinking on the "Harry is a Horcrux" theory is that Voldemort inadvertantly put some of his soul into Harry when he tried to kill him. We know that some of Voldemort's powers, like being a Parselmouth, transferred to Harry when that happened. I posted a quote from Chamber of Secrets pertaining to this in the Half-Blood Prince thread. There is also some unexplained link between the two, such as Harry being able to feel what Voldemort is feeling at times. And don't forget what Harry feels when Dumbledore looks at him in Order of the Phoenix: I seem to remember the feeling being described something like "as though Harry had a snake inside him". __________________ "If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you." Gandalf to Pippin Psalm 107:31

08-12-2005, 09:54 AM	#4
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	And Dumbledore does tell Harry that Voldemort 'transferd some of his powers into him that night' so that could bear some weight. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

08-12-2005, 10:07 AM	#5
Master'sBaneSwiftSnowmane Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 103	So...your thinking is that Voldemort accidentally made Harry a horcrux? That, to me, is far more believable than him intending to do it. Still, is it possible to unintentionally make someone a horcrux? I would that it would be a rather complicated process, made even more complicated since Harry isn't an inanimate object. The whole "snake inside him" phrase I equivocated to having butterflies in your stomach when your nervous. I didn't take it literal...perhaps I should have? __________________ "Not only did my encounters with voters confirm the fundamental decency of the American people, they also reminded me that at the core of the American experience are a set of ideals that continue to stir our collective conscience; a common set of values that bind us together despite our differences; a running thread of hope that makes our improbable experiment in democracy work..." Barack Obama, The Audacity of Hope

08-12-2005, 02:30 PM	#6
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	also, if he did inadvertantly make him a horcrux, would he know, and if not, would he make another and thus have eight? __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih...

08-16-2005, 11:57 AM	#9
Spock An enigma in a conundrum Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 6,476	Wow, you guys really think these things out. I'm not convinced that H. would be a host as we all have been lead to believe that he and HWWNBN must duel and only one (HP we hope) will remain alive. It seems unlikely, given the story so far that H would be a HX. __________________ Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."