HP and the Order of the Phoenix

[Rían]

No worries, Rad, about spoiling the next book, because I've already read it! Actually I read it before the 4th book!

Anyway, I didn't like it as much. Too much fighting, not enough of the fun relational stuff.

The house was funny, tho, with that screaming picture.

Can't blame Sirius for wanting to get out!

So when do we find out why Dumbledore trusts Snape?

[inked]

Rian,

The series should be read in order of publication!!!!! I've ranted on that before in the Narnia thread, remember?

You are reading a "coming of age" story in the classic British school story, after all!

(And just for those insistent that religion gets into EVERY thread)...You wouldn't read Revelation before Matthew, now would you? (I mean from scratch!) .

[Fat middle]

Originally Posted by inked

Rian,

The series should be read in order of publication!!!!! I've ranted on that before in the Narnia thread, remember?

You are reading a "coming of age" story in the classic British school story, after all!

(And just for those insistent that religion gets into EVERY thread)...You wouldn't read Revelation before Matthew, now would you? (I mean from scratch!) .

Bah! that doesn't solve the real problem: what SW trilogy is to be seen in the first place by the new generations?

[Rían]

Originally Posted by inked

Rian,

The series should be read in order of publication!!!!! I've ranted on that before in the Narnia thread, remember?

You are reading a "coming of age" story in the classic British school story, after all!

Well, um, actually I read the last quarter of the third book, then the whole fourth book, then the first 3/4 of the third book ...

*runs and hides from inky's wrath*

I'll be good from now on, though!

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Anyway, I didn't like it as much. Too much fighting, not enough of the fun relational stuff.

I agree... I thought it was way too confusing, and last part - and was badly done, generally. It seems to me like JKR isn't very good with the 'action scenes' - or magic fights, in other words. It's all one big mess, and you don't really know what's going on.. till Dumbledore comes.

And I really don't like the fact she killed Sirius - not that I particulary liked/disliked Sirius. I don't like the fact she feels oblidged to kill one of her main characters in every book, probably for the rumours that someone is going to die.

I all of Hagrid's part... well, not all - all the part with his brother? Grip? Gramp? eh, slipped my mind. I think it wa sjust a waste of time, and was done only to make the book longer - don't really see why. Seems like she feels as if she must write every book longer than the one she wrote before.

And of course - I didn't like Harry. He was extremely annoying, yelling on everyone. Especially at the start, and the ending - after Sirius died. I don't really see what she was trying to achieve in that. His bad personality and attitude of things he didn't really understand?

Frankly - the book was a disappointment to me. But as I said, some people thought it was very good. Somehow.

[cee2lee2]

Originally Posted by Radagast The Brown

And of course - I didn't like Harry. He was extremely annoying, yelling on everyone. Especially at the start, and the ending - after Sirius died. I don't really see what she was trying to achieve in that. His bad personality and attitude of things he didn't really understand?

You know, I felt the same about Harry and was very disappointed in his character. Kept trying to justify it to myself that he was just "being a teenager". But none of the other teens seemed to have the same bad atttitude. (I admit, none of the others have been through exactly what he's been through.) Hope he shapes up in the next book.

[Fat middle]

Originally Posted by cee2lee2

You know, I felt the same about Harry and was very disappointed in his character. Kept trying to justify it to myself that he was just "being a teenager". But none of the other teens seemed to have the same bad atttitude. (I admit, none of the others have been through exactly what he's been through.) Hope he shapes up in the next book.

I felt that too.

I enjoyed the book, anyway in the hope that harry's character improves in the last books.

[Rían]

Yeah, I felt that, too.

[The Wizard from Milan]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

I didn't like it as much. Too much fighting, not enough of the fun relational stuff.

Neither did I, but for a different reason. I found that the Umbridge is totally unbearable and the part of Grawp was not well merged in with the rest of the book.

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

So when do we find out why Dumbledore trusts Snape?

Some people expect we will find find out in this book (usually these are the people who expect Dumbledore to die in this book). I expect we'll find out in HP7 because Snape's subplot is (I think) important to the series.

[inked]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Well, um, actually I read the last quarter of the third book, then the whole fourth book, then the first 3/4 of the third book ...

*runs and hides from inky's wrath*

I'll be good from now on, though!

Rian,

Check this out: http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/hom...e=docs/phoenix

Let me know what you think.

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by inked

Rian,

Check this out: http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/hom...e=docs/phoenix

Let me know what you think.

Hermione's dad wrote it! (Not just a dentist! )

Erm... well, Granger was the first thing I noticed.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by inked

Rian,

Check this out: http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/hom...e=docs/phoenix

Let me know what you think.

Interesting article, tho I think it is pulling out of the hat (to use an HP analogy) more than is actually there... I'll put up a response in the Christian themes in HP thread.

[inked]

Well, Rian,

Magicians are not the only people who pull things out of their hats! What specifically did you think "presto! chango!"?

[azalea]

Inked: in the Sirius thread, I might have been confused, but I thought I'd ask about it here because it is perhaps the more appropriate thread.

You said "...if being in the Order of the Phoenix means what I think it does," in relation to Sirius and his ability to communicate with Harry post mortem. I read the posts to which you pointed me, but didn't find the answer. I am interested, because that phrase sounds like you have an interesting theory regarding membership in the Order.

[inked]

Azalea,

I am sure one named after so gracious and lovely and Southern a flower will forgive my inescusable tardiness in replying to this question!

I have bumped the Christian themes in HP thread and suggest that you view from post #8 onwards so that my reply makes some sort of sense. Particularly the posts dealing with Fawkes and the symbolism involved (including the rather long background notes on the phoenix itself).

It seems clear to me that the Order of the Phoenix bears a Christian symbolism on the basis of the symbolic use of the Phoenix as a Christ symbol and the word Order. In the most common usage of an order, it suggests a religious grouping (as the order of Dominicans or Franciscans, etc) primarily; though there are secular groupings using the word (Order of the Garter, for instance).

It is not much of a stretch, IMHO, to see the OoTP as a symbol of the church. It draws its members from the society in which it is, includes the greatest and least of members of that social grouping, and is forming them into something new. It requires dedication, sacrifice, and obedience. And, while the OoTP forms an obvious analogue to resistance movements in a political sense, I think it is more than that. I am looking diagonally, of course.
But, one must remember that the church has been one of the largest on-going resistance movements against the rulers of this world in both political and spiritual senses of rulers!

[azalea]

Okay, thanks!
I read the Christian themes thread -- very interesting!
(Hey, just 6 weeks left!)

[Linaewen]

I didn't see this until now, so excuse the late response.

Originally Posted by Radagast The Brown

And I really don't like the fact she killed Sirius - not that I particulary liked/disliked Sirius. I don't like the fact she feels oblidged to kill one of her main characters in every book, probably for the rumours that someone is going to die.

If you go to her JKR's website, you can see how she's constantly goes on about throwing in all these things that are somehow important to the overall plot of the book. For instance, there was this one character she created who seemed really interesting & funny, and whom she liked, but it didn't make sense so she had to create a different character instead. The point is, there's a reason for everything she puts in, according to her. So I daresay Grawp isn't there for nothing. (Personally I don't mind stuff that strays from the main plot because I tend to love JRK's stuff anyway)

And of course - I didn't like Harry. He was extremely annoying, yelling on everyone. Especially at the start, and the ending - after Sirius died. I don't really see what she was trying to achieve in that. His bad personality and attitude of things he didn't really understand?

I felt the same way the first time I read it. The moodiness just seemed to come out of nowhere, compared to other books. I don't know why he was like that, either, except that he's growing and having to cope with a LOT. Maybe the strain of being Voldermort's arch-nemesis is taking its toll?

Btw, the next HP book is shorter than this one.

[Radagast The Brown]

You said you'd PM me today... *sob* I'm deeply hurt.

Originally Posted by Linaewen

If you go to her JKR's website, you can see how she's constantly goes on about throwing in all these things that are somehow important to the overall plot of the book. For instance, there was this one character she created who seemed really interesting & funny, and whom she liked, but it didn't make sense so she had to create a different character instead. The point is, there's a reason for everything she puts in, according to her. So I daresay Grawp isn't there for nothing. (Personally I don't mind stuff that strays from the main plot because I tend to love JRK's stuff anyway)

Heh, we'll see. I don't know, just thought it was boring... and pointless. I suppose she can make it.. more important in later books, but I bet she could just drop this whole part, without harming the books.

Btw, the next HP book is shorter than this one.

Or so it's said... IIRC, they said the 5th book would be 200 pages too, and it ended up being 800. Though it's probably right this time... will be very disappointed if it has 900 pages.

[The Wizard from Milan]

Originally Posted by Radagast The Brown

I don't know, just thought it [Grawp] was boring... and pointless.

I totally agree; so far the Grawp storyline does not integrate well at all with the main storyline. Unless, of course, Grawp is revealed to be the Half-Blood Prince