Blatant LoTR Copy-Cats

[ItalianLegolas]

Okay, in school my class had to watch "The Wizard of Oz", and me and my fellow LoTR nerds noticed some very obvious very much alike/stolen portions of the movie that were very much like the LoTR books! One such example is the "object of power", in the Wizard of Oz, the ruby slippers, in LoTR, the ring. Another one, would be a a huge gate where all the witches minions(which are orc look-alikes) march through, you guessed it, an enormous BLACK GATE, very much like the one that is the entrance to Mordor! My final such copy-cat is the appearance of short people, in the Wizard of Oz, the munchkins, in LoTR, the Hobbits!

I guess my point is, has anyone else noticed such LoTR look-alikes, or am i the only one?

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Dumbledore and Gandalf. They are both "wizards" and very wise and trusted.

[Elemmírë]

Gandalf and Obi-wan Kenobi...

There are a lot, many more I can't think of right now, but you can't always put it down to copy-cats. Some of these things are simply recurrent themes that not even Tolkien created, and I'm not about to accuse him of copying from Norse mythology or Christian theology...

[Aragorn]

Everyone copied from Tolkien. LotR is pretty much the ultimate fantasy story, so you'll see 'coincidences' in many popular movies/books/etc.

[Count Comfect]

I'd say most of those are just common themes... especially since the Wizard of Oz predates Tolkien.

[Nurvingiel]

I've got a real LotR copycat for ya. I can't believe someone hasn't said it already!

The Sword of Shannarah, by J.R.- I mean Terry Brooks.

I love this book, and Terry Brooks himself said later that it was a total LotR rip off (paraphrase).

Shae Ohmsford - Frodo
Flick Ohmsford - Sam
Jerle Shannarah - Gil-galad
Allanon - Gandalf
The King of Silver River - Elrond
The Skullbearers - the Nazgul

It's been ages since I read this, but I bet you could parallel pretty much anything.

[BeardofPants]

Originally Posted by Aragorn

Everyone copied from Tolkien. LotR is pretty much the ultimate fantasy story, so you'll see 'coincidences' in many popular movies/books/etc.

As Emblayne stated, Tolkien was not soley the originator of the fantasy genre, and his work bears the mark of many. Influences in his work derive from many other OLDER sources such as Eddas, Beowulf, etc. And remember, his work was undoubtedly inspired by his interest in etymology.

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

I was just waiting for "oh ee oh - oh oh" to be chanted.

Isn't that a bastardisation of "all we did, we did for her"?

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by BeardofPants

As Emblayne stated, Tolkien was not soley the originator of the fantasy genre, and his work bears the mark of many. Influences in his work derive from many other OLDER sources such as Eddas, Beowulf, etc. And remember, his work was undoubtedly inspired by his interest in etymology.

Yes - which has been argued when it comes to Harry Potter - like Tolkien - Rowlings uses many things from various mythologies.

Isn't that a bastardisation of "all we did, we did for her"?

I guess so. Is that what they're say? I don't know really what they are saying - it just sounds like a chant to me. Maybe I should watch it again and listen to it closely.

[Khamûl]

Originally Posted by BeardofPants

Isn't that a bastardisation of "all we did, we did for her"?

Actually, I believe it's "All we owe, we owe her" which comes out sounding like "oh-we-oh oh-wee-oh". I don't remember where I heard that, but I think it's right.

And The Sword of Shannara is the most blatant rip-off of Tolkien I've ever read. It's also the only book by Terry Brooks I've ever read. Just for fun, the Book-A-Minute version of The Sword of Shannara, ultra-condensed by Samuel Stoddard and David J. Parker:

Allanon -- Shea Ohmsford, you're the long lost heir to a royal magic throne kingship dynasty bloodline. Also, the world will die unless you can save it.

Shea Ohmsford -- What do I do?

Allanon -- I'm not telling.

Shea Ohmsford -- Oh, Allanon! You're so reticent!

(Then a plot happens.)

The Warlock Lord -- ROAR. I WILL KILL YOU.

Shea Ohmsford -- Truth.

The Warlock Lord -- GASP. (dies)


THE END

[Bombadillo]

Originally Posted by Aragorn

Everyone copied from Tolkien. LotR is pretty much the ultimate fantasy story, so you'll see 'coincidences' in many popular movies/books/etc.

Hence my sig. Tolkien is the god of fantasy. He created the fantasy genre, perfected it, made it so deep and detailed, and set all the guidelines for it. Everyone else in the fantasy genre has to pretty much follow him, and as of yet none have been able to come off as more timeless and awesome. His work is so powerful that people just absorb it and later that comes out in their own work, blatantly. Because he rocks. Rarely do people 'copy' him intentionally, but it's impossible not to, IMO.

[BeardofPants]

Originally Posted by Bombadillo

Hence my sig. Tolkien is the god of fantasy. He created the fantasy genre, perfected it, made it so deep and detailed, and set all the guidelines for it.

That is grossly unfair to Tolkien's precedents. He in no way pulled his work out of thin air. His work was built upon EXISTING stepping stones. Granted, his STYLE of fantasy has had huge implications for the fantasy genre today, but the genre in and of itself ALREADY existed.

Originally Posted by Embladyne

I too agree with El that Tokien did not create fantasy perse, but had a tremendous hand in influencing it's future direction, for which I am grateful.
Not Modern fantasy anymore, it's Postmodern....or, Post-postmodern....

What has changed about the fantasy genre that shifts it from modernity exactly? It still bears the characteristics of a traditional 'modern' novel, so I don't know what the hell you're yapping on about here.

[me9996]

Originally Posted by ElemmÃ*rë

Gandalf and Obi-wan Kenobi...

There are a lot, many more I can't think of right now, but you can't always put it down to copy-cats. Some of these things are simply recurrent themes that not even Tolkien created, and I'm not about to accuse him of copying from Norse mythology or Christian theology...

Saruman and Count duku?
Luke skywalker and Aragorn?
Merry and Twedledee?

[Lenya]

Originally Posted by me9996

Merry and Twedledee?

love that. (though it is an insult to all Merry fans)

[me9996]

Originally Posted by Lenya

love that. (though it is an insult to all Merry fans)

Well if Merry is Tweedledee, then who is Pippin?

And one thing about the so called "Orc look-alikes" I don't think Tolkien ever discribes the orcs as being green.

In the "Wizard of Oz" movie the minions are closer (In apearence) to Russian revolutionaries than orcs!

And... They're happy when the Witch is dead, unlike the orcs who become somewhat aimless.

[Curubethion]

Originally Posted by me9996

Saruman and Count duku?

Er...I rather blame that one on Christopher Lee.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by ItalianLegolas

Okay, in school my class had to watch "The Wizard of Oz", and me and my fellow LoTR nerds noticed some very obvious very much alike/stolen portions of the movie that were very much like the LoTR books! One such example is the "object of power", in the Wizard of Oz, the ruby slippers, in LoTR, the ring. Another one, would be a a huge gate where all the witches minions(which are orc look-alikes) march through, you guessed it, an enormous BLACK GATE, very much like the one that is the entrance to Mordor! My final such copy-cat is the appearance of short people, in the Wizard of Oz, the munchkins, in LoTR, the Hobbits!

I guess my point is, has anyone else noticed such LoTR look-alikes, or am i the only one?

If you study the meaning of the Wizard of Oz - you will notice that there is nothing in common with Tolkien. However - there are many scenes that jackson did that remind me of the Wizard of Oz. if anything - Jackson took from the Wizard of Oz movies. I have said before - that at the black gate - when Frodo, Sam and Gollum are there - it looks like the Scarcrow, Tin Man and Lion. I was just waiting for "oh ee oh - oh oh" to be chanted.

And as Count Confect states - the Wizard of Oz was written before Tolkien wrote the Hobbit or Lord of the Rings.

[edit]
For those who want to know the meanings behind the Wizard of Oz -

Muchkins - immigrants
Witch of the East - businessmen who took advantage of the immigrants
yellow brick road - gold standard
ruby slippers (in the movie) - I believe silver in the book - the silver standard
Emerald city - washington
witch of the west - nature (tornados and the causes of the dustbowl)

My recollection may be rusty on some of them though. But that is a general idea behind the meaning of wizard of oz.

[Elvengirl]

Hmm..interesting JD. I never noticed the Wizard being anything like Jackson's films, but know you've mentioned it, that scene is kind of similar.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Elvengirl

Hmm..interesting JD. I never noticed the Wizard being anything like Jackson's films, but know you've mentioned it, that scene is kind of similar.

I've mentioned several scenes in the movie forum - such as when Saruman and the orc are in orthanc (Fellowship of the Ring). It looks very similar to when the witch is telling the flying monkey to go after dorothy.

[Embladyne]

About copycats....if it can be pulled off, the retelling of a good story is a commendable accomplishment.
That said, I generally appreciate stories that more influnced by other works rather than rehashed. I do read my share of doujinshi and fanfics...and have contemplated authoring several (may they never see the light of day!)

But, if we are going to accuse others of "copying Tolkien" first we must know that everything he wrote was *original*. And it wasn't. In fact, that's why I like his work so much. It takes a great deal of the mythology that has always fascinated me, and puts it into the context of Middle Earth. I'm not saying that Tolkien didn't have original ideas. He most certainly did. Its is his integration of the world mythos with his own that make his work of Middle Earth such an epic accomplishment. And sadly, as much as I love other authors, none has quite felt as inspired as our dear Tolkien.

A couple of the belief systems Tolkien drew from (as Elemmire noted):
Catholism
Norse mythology (the Eddas)
(feel free to add more)

Actually, the source of Tolkien's inspiration is one of my favorite topics to discuss!!

[Elemmírë]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

I've got a real LotR copycat for ya. I can't believe someone hasn't said it already!

The Sword of Shannarah, by J.R.- I mean Terry Brooks.

I love this book, and Terry Brooks himself said later that it was a total LotR rip off (paraphrase).

I can't believe I forgot it...

I love that book too, Nurvs... Probably because it is so much like LotR.

It's more than just the characters, if you read the book side by side with LotR, the plot is almost identical. It's hilarious.

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

If you study the meaning of the Wizard of Oz - you will notice that there is nothing in common with Tolkien. However - there are many scenes that jackson did that remind me of the Wizard of Oz. if anything - Jackson took from the Wizard of Oz movies. I have said before - that at the black gate - when Frodo, Sam and Gollum are there - it looks like the Scarcrow, Tin Man and Lion. I was just waiting for "oh ee oh - oh oh" to be chanted.

You sure know how to ruin the movie for me, JD... I'm never going to be able to watch that part of it again without trying desperately not to burst out laughing...

I liked your list, btw. And yes, the shoes were silver in the book.

Originally Posted by Embladyne

About copycats....if it can be pulled off, the retelling of a good story is a commendable accomplishment.

Such as the Sword of Shannara.



[edited] btw... any admins out there? Should this be in GM?