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Old 10-13-2005, 11:56 PM   #1
Curubethion
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Strider What Happened to Radagast???

I'm just curious, does anyone have any theories on Radagast's fate? It seems like he kind of vanishes after that little incident with Saruman in FOTR. What happened to him??
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Old 10-14-2005, 07:37 PM   #2
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Maybe he stayed in Middle-earth. That's my theory until someone trounces it with a HoME or Letters quote.
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Old 10-14-2005, 08:06 PM   #3
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yes, he most likely did. liked all the animals and such things.
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Old 10-14-2005, 10:13 PM   #4
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then he would have had to have chosen mortality or something then.
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Old 10-14-2005, 11:37 PM   #5
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Strider

He does pop up in Assasin's Shadow, though...(oops, did I just shamelessly plug my own RPG? )
I'm wondering...did he just like wander around Middle Earth?
I just got an idea-what if he turned into Ralph Nader???
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Old 10-15-2005, 05:53 PM   #6
Radagast The Brown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rohirrim TR
then he would have had to have chosen mortality or something then.
I don't think it's possible... he wasn't a mere elf like Arwen (although, Arwen was descendent of Melian) so I don't think he could have chosen mortality even if he wanted to, and I don't see why would the Valar care... maybe he was even punished by not having the option of returning to Valinor.
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Old 10-15-2005, 05:57 PM   #7
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Would that necessarily be considered a punishment for him though? I mean, by all accounts, he would have been more than happy to stay with his furry friends.
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Old 10-15-2005, 06:01 PM   #8
Radagast The Brown
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Originally Posted by BeardofPants
Would that necessarily be considered a punishment for him though? I mean, by all accounts, he would have been more than happy to stay with his furry friends.
I'm not sure. Were there no animals in Aman?

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Old 10-15-2005, 06:36 PM   #9
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I believe there were, but does that necessarily mean that Radagast would want to leave his established friends?
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Old 10-15-2005, 08:09 PM   #10
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i think he remained in middle earth, who knows? maybe he's merlin.....

scratch that, if any of the wizards were merlin it was most likely one of the two unnamed blue wizards who passed into the east and were not heard from again.....

geez, why do i always end with a ....?
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And we are the dreamers of dreams,
Wandering by lone sea-breakers,
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World-losers and world-forsakers,
On whom the pale moon gleams:
Yet we are the movers and shakers
Of the world for ever, it seems.
----------------
Shanti, shanti, shantih...

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Old 10-16-2005, 06:23 AM   #11
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Concerning animals in Aman:
Quote:
But for their delight and use there were in Aman also a great multitude of creatures, without fëar, of many kinds: animals or moving creatures, and plants that are steadfast. There, it is believed, were the counterparts of all the creatures that are or have been on Earth [read Middle-earth], and others also that were made for Aman only.
(from the ‘Aman’ essay in ‘Myths Transformed’ published in HoMe X: Morgoth’s Ring)
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Old 10-16-2005, 02:39 PM   #12
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Thanks for the quote, Maerbenn. Ever have you a quote handy!

The animals of Aman are without fear, that means nobody hunts them. Poor Orome must have set aside his bow, once he was denied access to the ME.

So it fits, that Radagast has decided to remain in Great Lands to protect birds and beasts there, instead of returning to Aman.
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Old 10-17-2005, 02:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordis
The animals of Aman are without fear
If you are referring to my quote, it says that creatures (animals and plants) do not have fëar.

A fëa is, according to the Commentary on ‘Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth’ published in HoMe X, roughly but not exactly equivalent to a soul.
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Old 10-18-2005, 07:54 AM   #14
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OOPS, Sorry. I was too unattentive and hasty in reading this quote. Indeed I missed the two points in fëar. Yes, I know what a fëa means...
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Old 10-18-2005, 11:43 AM   #15
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In the essay “The Istari” in Unfinished Tales, Tolkien wrote
Quote:
Indeed, of all the Istari, one only remained faithful, and he was the last-comer. For Radagast, the fourth, became enamoured of the many beasts and birds that dwelt in Middle-earth, and forsook Elves and Men, and spent his days among the wild creatures. Thus he got his name (which is in the tongue of Númenor of old, and signifies, it is said, “tender of beasts”).
On the other hand, at the Council of Elrond (FotR), Gandalf says of his captivity in Orthanc:
Quote:
‘At first I feared, as Saruman no doubt intended, that Radagast had also fallen. Yet I had caught no hint of anything wrong in his voice or in his eye at our meeting. If I had, I should never have gone to Isengard, or I should have gone more warily. So Saruman guessed, and he had concealed his mind and deceived his messenger. It would have been useless in any case to try and win over the honest Radagast to treachery. He sought me in good faith, and so persuaded me.
Finally, consider Gandalf’s (and Bilbo’s) introductory meeting with Beorn in The Hobbit:
Quote:
“I have heard of you, if you have not heard of me; but perhaps you have heard of my good cousin Radagast who lives near the Southern borders of Mirkwood?”

“Yes; not a bad fellow as wizards go, I believe. I used to see him now and again,” said Beorn.
The subject is open to some debate – I hope – but it seems to me that while Radagast “fell away” from his original mission, which was “to advise and persuade Men and Elves to good, and to seek to unite in love and understanding all those whom Sauron ... would endeavour to dominate and corrupt” (“The Istari”, Unfinished Tales), there are a number of mitigating factors on Radagast’s behalf that, to me at least, make his “failure” much less onerous.

In The Hobbit, Beorn is rather well-disposed toward Radagast, and hence toward Gandalf, Bilbo, and the dwarves; without Beorn’s help at two crucial junctures – immediately after their escape from the orcs coupled with his good advice before their entry into Mirkwood, and later his appearance at the Battle of Five Armies – the Quest for Erebor would have failed. Radagast’s reputation for honesty and decency was perhaps the deciding factor here.

Consider what Gandalf had to say to the Council of Elrond immediately after the quote above:
Quote:
‘... Radagast knew no reason why he should not do as I asked; and he rode away towards Mirkwood where he had many friends of old. And the Eagles of the Mountains went far and wide, and they saw many things: the gathering of wolves and the mustering of Orcs; and the Nine Riders going hither and thither in the lands; and they heard news of the escape of Gollum. And they sent a messenger to bring these tidings to me.

‘So it was that when summer waned, there came a night of moon, and Gwaihir the Windlord, swiftest of the Great Eagles, came unlooked-for to Orthanc; and he found me standing on the pinnacle. Then I spoke to him and he bore me away, before Saruman was aware.
Again, “the honest Radagast” played a crucial intermediary role: his actions sent Gwaihir the Eagle to Orthanc, and so Gandalf was able to escape. Without Radagast, Gandalf could not have escaped, and the Quest of Mount Doom would have failed.

Was Radagast true to his mission? Tolkien says no, so we are left with the conclusion that Radagast was not true to his mission. In his defense, however, Radagast was instrumental in Gandalf’s escapes once the Ring appeared, twice from the orcs (through his good relations with Beorn) and once from the clutches of the fallen Saruman, and he was in fact the motivator of Gandalf’s escape from Orthanc.

Saruman suffered a fate similar to Sauron’s, at least superficially: both Maiar dissolved into a smoke or cloud, and were blown away by the wind. (Tolkien specifically says “out of the West came a cold wind” that blew away Saruman’s spirit; in Sauron’s case, he writes that “a great wind took it, and it was all blown away, and passed”, but he does not say from which direction the wind came; a North wind had been blowing before the battle at the Black Gate began, but perhaps there was a change in the winds of fortune when the Ring was destroyed.)

Later in the essay “The Istari”, Christopher Tolkien expresses his opinion that
Quote:
...the suggestion in the essay on the Istari ... that in becoming enamoured of the wild creatures of Middle-earth Radagast neglected the purpose for which he was sent is perhaps not perfectly in accord with the idea of his being specially chosen by Yavanna.
There is no reason, IMO, to believe that Radagast was barred from returning to Valinor. The question might well be, when would he tire of Middle-Earth and return? His honor and reward were less than Gandalf’s, no doubt; but he was honorable nonetheless, honest, and even without intending it, helped Gandalf in instances of grave crisis.

Last edited by Alcuin : 10-18-2005 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 10-18-2005, 04:46 PM   #16
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I can see no reason for him to be banned passage back to the west should he seek it ... as Alcuin states ... he was not corrupted ... we can question how true to his mission he was ... thus perhaps not earning great glory ... but he was not a traitor ... as others have stated he may have remained in middle earth .. and perhaps still does ...

he was ever from what we can tell happy to live a secluded existence ... maybe Yavanna would be pleased with him??

But then as each to their own were less than faithful in their own ways ..perhaps his neglecting his primary concerns for men and elves etc for the flora and esp fauna, could be seen as a form of corruption ... merely a gentler one? If this is true then effectively to some degree he turned his back on his mission to middle earth ... though i still doubt he would be barred from the west.
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Old 10-18-2005, 05:16 PM   #17
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His mission in ME was to help fight Sauron. Radagast and the Blue Wizards forsook that mission almost immediatly from what I can tell. Saruman indirectly fought against Sauron for a time before he was corrupted.
IMO the reason Saruman wasn't allowed back into the West was more about him forsaking his mission than it was about him becoming corrupted.
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Old 10-23-2005, 04:01 PM   #18
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I have no HOME books or Letters of Tolkien at hand to reference from, but there are varying accounts of the Blue Wizards' actions in ME. (We all know how much the prof liked to revise.) In one version, they did aid men in the East, and I think they were important in making the victory over Sauron possible.

Back to the topic:
Seeing as Yavanna was the one to champion Radagast's inclusion in the Istari, I think his main role was not merely to council men, but rather to foster good relations between human civilzations and the olvar and kelvar. This and other good results would have been better accomplished had all the istari worked together more closely.

I don't believe that Radagast did leave Middle Earth after the victory over Sauron. He cared too much about the olvar and kelvar of Middle Earth to just be able to leave them without his protection and care.
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Old 11-21-2005, 11:23 AM   #19
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Let's face it the Istari, as a team, were utter pants. You can just imagine them landing on Middle Earth's shores.

Gandalf: And so our task starts, my brothers. Let us start to battle the shadow that threatens all of Middle Earth

BW1: Are you thinking what I'm thing BW2?

BW2: I think I AM BW1....

BW1: We don't feel like battling the shadow right now.

BW2: That journey was the pits. We need a holiday.

BW1: Yeah the East sounds nice.

Gandalf: Erm... the East? Well you may find that Sauron's evil even now engulfs the East. Yes, go my friends, and should you find the shadow festers there make sure you...

BW2: ...avoid it like the plague? No probs.

BW1: Er no he wants us to fight it.

BW2: Fight it? Yeah, I meant that. Ok, bye!

Exit BWs 1 & 2

Gandalf: Ahem, so it falls upon we three to scour North, South and West in our quest to destroy Sauron and his work.

Saruman: Yes, I suppose we should. Such a shame though isn't it?

Gandalf: What?

Saruman: I mean, he's achieved so MUCH. You know in a sense you've got to admire him. Sort of. Don't you think?

Gandalf: Not really, no...

Saruman: Ok, shutting up now. I'll go south and find, I dunno, an impregnable fortified tower as a secret base for world domination - er I mean for resisting Sauron...

Exit Saruman

Gandalf: Radagast, surely you are still whole-hearted about our task?

Radagast: But of course. The monstrous evil that is Sauron must not be allowed to take root and thrive. I shall spare no effort to find him. I shall risk all to defy him. I shall... ooh look! A bunny! A bunny!

Gandalf: Oh for goodness sake...
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Old 11-21-2005, 09:34 PM   #20
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That's a pretty good interpretation. Better than Cliff's Notes, I think!
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