Women in LOTR

Handmaiden of Yavanna · 05-31-2002, 09:00 PM

Did anyone else out there wish that there had been a woman in the fellowship?

Aragorn_iz_cool · 05-31-2002, 09:04 PM

Depends. Myebe Gimli or Legoles (He looks like a girl in the movie anyway

) could be womanized. But no more then 9 people in the Followship! PERIOD.

Handmaiden of Yavanna · 05-31-2002, 09:08 PM

So? Tolkien could have done without pipin or merry or someone. Like if he had taken out Legolas and put in a girl elf, she could have done everything Legolas did so there would not be any gaps.
Now I'm not putting down Tolkien or anything, for gods sake hes my idol, but all i'm saying is that he didn't have to be sort of sextist in that way.

cassiopeia · 05-31-2002, 09:59 PM

Yes, but that was a time of war and even today it is usually men who fight in wars. Women arn't even allowed on the front line. Anyway Eowyn was a great female character and killed the Witch king.

P.S. I wouln't diss Pippin or Merry around here.

***azalea*** · 05-31-2002, 10:44 PM

When reading these books as a kid I have to admit I was a little disappointed there weren't any female MAIN characters, and only a few supporting character females (thank goodness for Eowyn! And I inwardly cheered when Goldberry was introduced, her being the first female we really meet in ME). It certainly didn't lessen my enjoyment of the books any, though. I always took it as Tolkein was a man who grew up in a male dominated society. Writing is hard to do, and it is especially hard to write from a point of view you don't share. My guess was always that Tolkein didn't feel he could write a female main character the way he would have wanted to write one (please no one jump down my throat -- I'm simply sharing my thoughts, not purporting to know what he was thinking). Even Eowyn, his most developed female character in LotR, has what would classically be considered to be masculine characteristics. (Then of course it takes a man to tame her and put her in her place, but we won't go there -- Ouch! Ouch! don't hurt me!)
There are plenty of female characters in The Silm, but in that work most of the characters aren't developed as fully as they are in LotR.

Eldanuumea · 06-01-2002, 12:42 AM

Including a woman in the Fellowship would have introduced the potential complication of a romantic tieup, and that would have distracted us from the quest.

Cirdan · 06-01-2002, 01:42 AM

My question is, why are there no evil women in LOTR? No wonder the Orcs are so miserable...

Eruviel Greenleaf · 06-01-2002, 02:04 AM

Ungoliant? Shelob?

And how do those orcs multiply anyway? Do I want to know?

I think a woman in the Fellowship would not have worked, though I wish there had been one. . .I'm confusing myself. I think it worked better without any women, for reasons mentioned above, and I wouldn't want anyone else taken out, but still. . .er. . .

Mirahzi · 06-01-2002, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eruviel Greenleaf
Ungoliant? Shelob?

And how do those orcs multiply anyway? Do I want to know?

I think a woman in the Fellowship would not have worked, though I wish there had been one. . .I'm confusing myself. I think it worked better without any women, for reasons mentioned above, and I wouldn't want anyone else taken out, but still. . .er. . .

Can you really count a bunch of ugly spiders as 'women'?

Female perhaps.. but I think 'women' apply to more humanoid persons.. Eep.

I thought Orcs multiply the same way Elves do.. y'know.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 06-01-2002, 02:08 AM

Well, they are female. . .but true, there is a lack of female villians. Hmm. Interesting.

Okay, so where are the female orcs?

Mirahzi · 06-01-2002, 02:12 AM

Well, maybe there are female orcs, but you just can't tell the difference, similar to dwarves.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 06-01-2002, 02:15 AM

Maybe. Or maybe orcs just multiply. And then when they are older, they divide

Mirahzi · 06-01-2002, 02:17 AM

That would be a scientific marvel..

but I think (according to the Sil) that the orcs were only corruptions of elves, therefore they have similar.. bodily structure and function

Cirdan · 06-01-2002, 02:19 AM

maybe they're just staying home with the orclings....

And no dwarf women? (an oversite on my part?)

I thought the elves, well y' know....

Mirahzi · 06-01-2002, 02:26 AM

Orclings? Heehee

There're dwarf women.. they're just indistinguishable from Dwarf men.. I tihnk only Dwarves can tell the difference..

Actually, I don't know

.. I'd tihnk that elves did it the same way men did it.. "y'know"

Eruviel Greenleaf · 06-01-2002, 02:26 AM

The Orcs DO divide; they're always fighting and killing each other!

Cirdan · 06-01-2002, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mirahzi
Orclings? Heehee

There're dwarf women.. they're just indistinguishable from Dwarf men.. I tihnk only Dwarves can tell the difference..

Actually, I don't know .. I'd tihnk that elves did it the same way men did it.. "y'know"

OMG, they don't have beards and carry big axes, do they?

Mirahzi · 06-01-2002, 02:35 AM

Ok.. by 'divide' do you mean as in physical separation.. cut in half.. etc? Cause you're really starting to confuzzle me..

Eruviel Greenleaf · 06-01-2002, 02:38 AM

I mean they divide within their ranks and slice each other up

Yep. Dwarf women are indistinguishable from the men.

Mirahzi · 06-01-2002, 02:43 AM

I hope Legolas knows what he's getting into

05-31-2002, 09:00 PM	#1
Handmaiden of Yavanna Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The far and fair West of California:) Posts: 101	Women in LOTR Did anyone else out there wish that there had been a woman in the fellowship? __________________ She wandered wayward for a time, from the gardens of the gods to climb the everlasting mountains free that look upon the outmost sea, and never wandered back but stayed softly singing from glade to glade.

05-31-2002, 09:08 PM	#3
Handmaiden of Yavanna Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The far and fair West of California:) Posts: 101	So? Tolkien could have done without pipin or merry or someone. Like if he had taken out Legolas and put in a girl elf, she could have done everything Legolas did so there would not be any gaps. Now I'm not putting down Tolkien or anything, for gods sake hes my idol, but all i'm saying is that he didn't have to be sort of sextist in that way. __________________ She wandered wayward for a time, from the gardens of the gods to climb the everlasting mountains free that look upon the outmost sea, and never wandered back but stayed softly singing from glade to glade.

05-31-2002, 09:59 PM	#4
cassiopeia Viggoholic Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 1,749	Yes, but that was a time of war and even today it is usually men who fight in wars. Women arn't even allowed on the front line. Anyway Eowyn was a great female character and killed the Witch king. P.S. I wouln't diss Pippin or Merry around here. __________________ Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.

06-01-2002, 12:42 AM	#6
Eldanuumea Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 123	unnecessary complication Including a woman in the Fellowship would have introduced the potential complication of a romantic tieup, and that would have distracted us from the quest. __________________ "Queen of Sweetness and Light!" - Mordomin

06-01-2002, 01:42 AM	#7
Cirdan Elf Lord of the Grey Havens Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somewhere else Posts: 2,381	My question is, why are there no evil women in LOTR? No wonder the Orcs are so miserable... __________________ There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary

05-31-2002, 09:04 PM	#2
Aragorn_iz_cool Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 119	Depends. Myebe Gimli or Legoles (He looks like a girl in the movie anyway ) could be womanized. But no more then 9 people in the Followship! PERIOD.

05-31-2002, 10:44 PM	#5
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	When reading these books as a kid I have to admit I was a little disappointed there weren't any female MAIN characters, and only a few supporting character females (thank goodness for Eowyn! And I inwardly cheered when Goldberry was introduced, her being the first female we really meet in ME). It certainly didn't lessen my enjoyment of the books any, though. I always took it as Tolkein was a man who grew up in a male dominated society. Writing is hard to do, and it is especially hard to write from a point of view you don't share. My guess was always that Tolkein didn't feel he could write a female main character the way he would have wanted to write one (please no one jump down my throat -- I'm simply sharing my thoughts, not purporting to know what he was thinking). Even Eowyn, his most developed female character in LotR, has what would classically be considered to be masculine characteristics. (Then of course it takes a man to tame her and put her in her place, but we won't go there -- Ouch! Ouch! don't hurt me!) There are plenty of female characters in The Silm, but in that work most of the characters aren't developed as fully as they are in LotR.

06-01-2002, 02:04 AM	#8
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	Ungoliant? Shelob? And how do those orcs multiply anyway? Do I want to know? I think a woman in the Fellowship would not have worked, though I wish there had been one. . .I'm confusing myself. I think it worked better without any women, for reasons mentioned above, and I wouldn't want anyone else taken out, but still. . .er. . . __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

06-01-2002, 02:08 AM	#10
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	Well, they are female. . .but true, there is a lack of female villians. Hmm. Interesting. Okay, so where are the female orcs? __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

06-01-2002, 02:12 AM	#11
Mirahzi Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,286	Well, maybe there are female orcs, but you just can't tell the difference, similar to dwarves. __________________ "For the less even as for the greater there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart shall rest." - Fëanor

06-01-2002, 02:15 AM	#12
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	Maybe. Or maybe orcs just multiply. And then when they are older, they divide __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

06-01-2002, 02:17 AM	#13
Mirahzi Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,286	That would be a scientific marvel.. but I think (according to the Sil) that the orcs were only corruptions of elves, therefore they have similar.. bodily structure and function __________________ "For the less even as for the greater there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart shall rest." - Fëanor

06-01-2002, 02:19 AM	#14
Cirdan Elf Lord of the Grey Havens Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somewhere else Posts: 2,381	maybe they're just staying home with the orclings.... And no dwarf women? (an oversite on my part?) I thought the elves, well y' know.... __________________ There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary

06-01-2002, 02:26 AM	#15
Mirahzi Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,286	Orclings? Heehee There're dwarf women.. they're just indistinguishable from Dwarf men.. I tihnk only Dwarves can tell the difference.. Actually, I don't know .. I'd tihnk that elves did it the same way men did it.. "y'know" __________________ "For the less even as for the greater there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart shall rest." - Fëanor

06-01-2002, 02:35 AM	#18
Mirahzi Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,286	Ok.. by 'divide' do you mean as in physical separation.. cut in half.. etc? Cause you're really starting to confuzzle me.. __________________ "For the less even as for the greater there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart shall rest." - Fëanor

06-01-2002, 02:38 AM	#19
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	I mean they divide within their ranks and slice each other up Yep. Dwarf women are indistinguishable from the men. __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

06-01-2002, 02:43 AM	#20
Mirahzi Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,286	I hope Legolas knows what he's getting into __________________ "For the less even as for the greater there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart shall rest." - Fëanor

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