The Silmarillion: Ch.2 Of Aulë and Yavanna

[Rían]

That part was confusing to me, Eärniel, because I didn't really see a connection between trees and eagles, because as Manwë said, the eagles won't live in the trees. But then I read Artanis' post, and I like how she sees the eagles and the ents as both being guardians. Very good thought, Artanis!

[Inderjit Sanghera]

For anyone intrested, Tolkien wrote a detailed and interesting concept on the idea of Eagles being Maia, in Myths Transformed in Morogths Ring, it is a great, though confusing read. If you want to read an extended Aule and Yavanna buy Morgoth's Ring.

[Artanis]

If eagles are indeed Maiar, then the connection to the Ents is even more clear, as all would be "spirits summoned from afar".

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Artanis
If eagles are indeed Maiar, then the connection to the Ents is even more clear, as all would be "spirits summoned from afar".

I totally agree with you Artanis

[Rían]

One of my favorite parts in the Sil is in this chapter - the scene between Aulë and Ilúvatar. Aulë, in his impatience, became a little presumptuous and made the dwarves. "he was unwilling to await the fulfilment of the designs of Ilúvatar" seems to indicate that it was NOT out of ignorance, but out of impatience.

Ilúvatar knew, of course, and "in the very hour that Aulë's work was complete", Ilúvatar spoke to Aulë: "Why hast thou done this? Why dost thou attempt a thing which thou knowest is beyond thy power and thy authority? ......"

Aulë's answer includes that he didn't desire lordship, but desired to love and teach others, but that he did fall into "folly" through his impatience. Then he asks Ilúvatar what he should do, and offers his work to Ilúvatar, and is even willing to destroy his work.

Then (as you all know ) Ilúvatar had "compassion upon Aulë and his desire, because of his humility", and Ilúvatar gave life to the dwarves.

This is such an interesting little story to me, because of the contrast between Melkor's rebellion and Aulë's rebellion. When "called on the carpet", Aulë repented out of humility (BTW, humility does NOT mean thinking you're awful; it means having a CORRECT assessment of yourself, which in this case means Aulë realized that he did not have the authority to do what he had done). He offered his work to Ilúvatar, then even offered to destroy his work. Because he was willing to do this, it showed that his heart was right, and then Ilúvatar in his grace accepted Aulë's dwarves and gave them life, and thus we have Thorin and Co. meeting with Bilbo!

Any other thoughts on this story?

[Artanis]

My thought is that your thoughts are very good.

I'm still wondering why the fate of the seven father's of the Dwarves is different from the others. See what the Dwarves themselves believe:

They say also that the Seven Fathers of the Dwarves return to live again in their own kin and to bear once more their ancient names: of whom Durin was the most renowned in after ages, father of that kindred most friendly to the Elves, whose mansions were at Khazad-Dûm

What was the purpose of Iluvatar? Why should the Seven Fathers, and they only, reincarnate? Any thoughts?

[Lefty Scaevola]

They probably do no reincarnate. It is likely a false myth fostered by the dwarven royal families t0 enhance their power.

[Artanis]

Oh you're such a big cynic But I like you

[Wayfarer]

Dwarves were different-nobody really knows what happens to them after death. Thre is likely a reason, but it might not be what you suspect.

[Laurelin the Younger]

Maybe the Seven Fathers only reincarnate because they were directly made by Aulë. The rest are offspring and therefore not direct creations.

[Earniel]

Two things stood out to me this time.

One, in this chapter Ilúvatar speaks up with Valar several times, with Aulë and Manwë. I suddenly wondered: would he speak this way to Melkor too? It obviously was in his power and Melkor would not be able to hide from Ilúvatar the way he could avoid his Valar-siblings. We will never know because there is no way this would pas into the stories but it makes me wonder if Ilúvatar ever talked to Melkor directly after he entered Arda. I'm leaning somewhat towards thinking he would have.

Two, Aulë goes back to Middle-earth to make the Dwarves. He manages to do this unseen and also unhindered by Melkor and his beasts. He can built some hidden forge there where he can fashion the Dwarves and likely this took him some time because it is not really his expertise, it's more Yavanna's terrain to begin with. It kind of adds to my question why the Valar couldn't stay in Middle-earth in the first place!