The Order of the Phoenix SPOILER Review Thread

[Elfmaster XK]

Anyway. James. Arrogant James...I doth declare I love thee. Now Harry has a real little dilemma eh? Father wasn't such a great role model after all. I am glad JKR did this; I liked to think he wasn't perfect myself, and this proves it. Now Harry will have to learn to live with that, and accept that his father did have flaws. Sirius. WAH!!! I am in total denial here. I seriously don’t believe it happened. I love Sirius a lot. He was never my favourite character but he didn’t deserve to die in such a pointless way. Pointless because on first reading it I seriously didn’t register he was dead. I expected there to be more. But there was no more; he was just gone. I don’t think I can accept it.

Fred and George were fantastic. I absolutely loved them to pieces and wish I could turn my old school into a swamp. I thought Molly would be a bit more angry they just left though. I wonder if they’ll be in the Order by next instalment. Maybe not, what with the joke shop and all.

Ginny was annoying. Suddenly she’s become Super!Ginny. Can play Seeker, knows many of Fred and Georges tricks. Maybe she’s the new troublemaker Weasley. And then the boyfriends. I suppose it was nice to see her get some further characterisation. I wonder if she was serious with the Dean/Ginny, or it was a joke to wind up Ron. Still pondering.

Luna is interesting. I like her, but I don’t love her like a lot of people seem to. There’s something about her which I don’t like. I mean aside from the fact she just appeared in the year below. I hope beyond hope this doesn’t end up Harry/Luna. The only thing she seemed good for was turning up at the right time to provide the right information/plot help. For me, her most significant time was when she spoke to Harry about the voices behind the veil. I wonder if it’ll make Harry obsessed with them.

Draco: He didn’t get much furthering to his character, just emphasis on what was already there really. That he’s a coward hiding behind his cronies, and abusing his powers and such. I think it has laid the way for further characterisation though, because now we know more about his family, and that he will begrudge Harry even more now because of his father. He has been quite childish and I don’t think he can continue to be so after this. So…yay for paving the way for a better Draco.

Percy I knew was going to turn evil. He may be under Imperious, but I don’t think so. He has shown to be ambitious, and Ron told Harry he thought he might do what Crouch did to his son if the family got in the way. And he did. Percy is like Fudge. I think they’re both morons.

Lucius and Narcissa. Not much to say you’d think. Okay, so Narcissa didn’t even get a line, or an appearance, but Lucius did. We now know they are related to the Blacks. And Sirius said that all wizarding families were related because there were so few left. The Potters were pure-blood. (Before Harry that is. James’ family are, unless I’m mistaken.) So could they too be related? Anyway, Lucius and Narcissa. Lucius seems to be a bit of a maniac actually. He still seems to be Voldie’s second hand, and I think he knows that, but feels threatened by Bellatrix. They argued a lot, or Lucius yelled a lot at her. He also seems to be too proud of being a Malfoy, with his immense smugness and such with Harry. And so he’s in Azkaban? Well that won’t work as there are no dementors. He’ll be out soon I expect.

Bellatrix Lestrange is so very interesting. I liked her character. She was very evil. A bit insane, and also, I think, Voldie’s favourite. After all, we all saw he called her “Bella” rather than how he addressed the rest of his followers, like “Avery.” Very interesting how she shall develop, and also her with the connections with Neville.

Neville was GREAT! I absolutely love him. I’m so so glad he got a bigger part, I knew he would, even though that wasn’t what I expected it to be. I really hope this gets developed A LOT more. Especially with the prophecy and all. Neville is my hero.

Umbrige was a bit of a peculiarity for me. I couldn’t decide if she was good or bad, because lots of parts of her were good. But then there was the flatness of her on occasions too. I think she was simply in the story too much. We could have done with seeing less of her. And also, JKR needed to stop describing her in the same way, the frog and fly thing. Started well, then got a bit expected of what she’d do. Yes. She was annoying.

Hagrid I knew wouldn’t die when he came back injured. That to me showed he was safe from being the one JKR killed. But I didn’t really care either way what he did in this book. He didn’t seem important, and I really disliked the bit with Grawp.

McGonagall I have a new respect for. I always liked her, but now she totally rocks. All the other teachers I feel the same about. Trelawney maybe a bit sorry for.

[Elfmaster XK]

Snape. I now understand Snape a bit better. Before I never really liked him and thought he was just damned mean. I’m glad we got to know a bit more about him and hope that in future he and Harry will be able to reach some sort of mutual understanding over what happened, in which Snape no longer victimises Harry so much. I thought maybe because they have both seen each other’s bad childhood. Poor Snape. I feel for him now.

Cho can just go away and fall of a mountain. I shan’t dignify her with anything.

Dumbledore I can’t decide on.

Fudge remains to me, a hypocrite, and a total idiot. Someone who is completely blind, and inept at his job. He loves his power more than he admits, and more than wanting the safety and happiness of his people, he wants his money and his status. I think he’s a total [insert swearing], and have since we first met him.


Favourite parts
I have to say for me, the parts, which have stuck out the most are the “I must not tell lies” bit. That was very strong. It’s all about indoctrination, and I found it very sinister. Also, the fact Harry just took it made me think he was punishing himself somehow. I know he just wouldn’t give in, but he did, to me, seem to be punishing himself. Possibly even taking out his anger. The Black house and history also seems very important to me. Though the description of the house made me think of the colour green, dark mossy rotting green, and of general decay. Wasn’t so nice. I’d like to get my hands on that tapestry, see who else is related. The DA was great. Snape’s memory in the pensieve was good. Harry smashing Dumbledore’s office also brill.

Heart-breaking, soul-destroying moments
Neville in the hospital with his parents. I know…the death; but when his mother gives him that wrapper *collapses* I wanted to cry. I wanted to hug Neville. It was so sad. I hope a lot of people appreciate that tiny moment for what it was.

When Harry looked at the mirror hoping to see Sirius, and a wild hopeful excitement passed through him. Again, wanted to cry. This part for me was worse than the bit with the veil. Far worse because it was actually crushing. Obviously it reminded me of the mirror of Erised, and that was certainly the saddest part of PS.

I don’t want to be human anymore. *wibbles* Aww…it destroys me!

Sirius’ death barely needs mentioning. Harry has lost so much, and Sirius didn’t deserve it. I didn’t dare to believe it. Still failing to accept it.

When Harry yells at Hermione and Ron for being kept in the dark all summer, and then at other times throughout the book becomes angry, violent or vindictive because of it. The way they all look at him, pretend to understand, and pity him. Also when they don’t believe him about the dreams. And they do, they pity him, which makes me sad. I suppose it’s clichéd to say so, but they don’t understand; they can’t.

Neville’s strength in the fighting. We know where his strength comes from, but it drives him to be reckless. Similar to Harry when he runs after Bellatrix. When Harry says “I am,” and tries to Crucio her that was sad. Desperation. Anger.

Questions and Criticisms
Firstly: How the hell did he get the Marauder’s map back? HOW!

Umbridge I’m still a bit unsure of. I disliked Grawp. I thought the darkness and overall atmosphere too heavy for children, and the sinister, yet subtlety of the takeover too complicated for them. I don’t think this much politics has a place in children’s books, they don’t need it. The prophecy. It was too vague, as if JKR doesn’t know where she’s taking it, and the book as a whole had no continuing plot. The prophecy was explained (briefly) at the end. Harry was running towards the door, but he didn’t know why. There was too much unknown in this book to be going with. It was made of many subplots, and lacked a tying together factor. In a way, I think I felt angry when reading it, because I felt like Harry. I didn’t know enough at the right times. For example, after Sirius fell through the veil I was angry because I wanted to know why? Where did he go? Why has he gone? What were the voices? Why can’t he get out, why did whatever it was kill him, and why did Lupin know but not explain? *breaks down* He. Is. Not. Dead. Am left with questions. Having said that though, I still love it. I just think fanfiction has probably warped my view a little. I have become too analytical of it, and I doubt I’d have thought a lot of this if it weren’t for the fandom. I even stayed unspoiled completely before reading it. It wasn’t what I expected I don’t think. I liked it a lot, though it had its flaws.

Also, has anyone noticed how all the Pure-blood families seem to be rich? I want to know why this is. Heritage I suppose.

Sorry for that everyone. Had to say it. Also, why did I have to post in three installments? Only 5000 characters allowed now. I thought it was more than that.

[Elf Girl]

Originally posted by Elfmaster XK
Umbrige was a bit of a peculiarity for me. I couldn’t decide if she was good or bad, because lots of parts of her were good. But then there was the flatness of her on occasions too. I think she was simply in the story too much. We could have done with seeing less of her. And also, JKR needed to stop describing her in the same way, the frog and fly thing. Started well, then got a bit expected of what she’d do. Yes. She was annoying.

What parts of Umbridge were good? She was the closest thing to a villain present at Hogwarts, I should think we saw a lot of her!

[EyeSeeYou]

umbridge is PURE EVIL!!!!!!! yes EVIL i say. that whole pen thingy? i mean what kind of sick person is she? good thing she was taken out of action at the end of the book. but will she return?

(evil darth vader star wars music plays in background)

[Sheeana]

Haven't got too much to add. Umbridge worked well; everytime I saw hem hem, I felt like screaming! Sirius' death felt like it had been just dashed off; I didn't have any particular feeling for this scene other than, Aha! I guessed right! Sirius was an awesome character, and I'm sad that JK Rowling felt that he'd served his purpose, but I'm definately glad it wasn't Ron, or Neville, or Hagrid. Hopefully, there will be some more development on the giants in the next book. The prophecy was predictable, and boring. Okay, so now it's been confirmed, but seriously, haven't we all been thinking that since book one? I would have hoped that Dumbledore would have come up with a better shocker, like James being a deatheater or something. I think it's interesting that Lily hated James, and I suspect there's something further there that Dumbledore hasn't told Harry yet. And why? Oh Why? did they not let us know how Harry did in his OWLs????

[Sheeana]

PS - Why wasn't Umbridge arrested or something? SHE was the one who set the dementors onto Harry!

[Elf Girl]

Ah, yes, but do we have any proof? Ministry-worthy proof I mean?

[Tanoliel]

Snerk. No.

Wow, ExK, nice long post there.... Let's see if I can whack at some things now.

I like that Harry got some character, finally...even if it's Smashing Things to Bits!Harry; but he got very annoying at many points, when he kept yelling (reduce the capitals, JK, it's aggravating); and especially when he refused to talk to people. Eg, he wouldn't tell Dumbledore anything--he just assumed Dumbledore was being closed-mouthed without actually asking him stuff. He wouldn't tell people about...oh, I don't know, but masses of stuff. It really bothers me in books when people simply refuse to talk and that's the reason things go wrong. Argh.

I agree a bit that Luna was too convenient (I stil like her, though)...but at least, thank god, she's not an American transfer student.

Cho....*growls* No. Just no.

ExK and others mentioned the Black-Malfoy connection, and is there a possible Potter- something connection? I really wouldn't be suprised--she's laid the groundwork for it anyway.

NEVILLE: I neglected to mention him earlier, but I would just like to say...Neville Rocketh My World; Verily It Is So. And I love him to pieces. I want to take him home, give him a cup of tea and be his friend forever.

[Sheeana]

Originally posted by Elf Girl
Ah, yes, but do we have any proof? Ministry-worthy proof I mean?

I dunno. who did she confess in front of again?

[Diaxion]

I have an unanswered question. What happened to Harry's grandparents on his father side, i just don't assume that they died right after James left school because of when Sirius talked about them. I'm so smart

[Tanoliel]

Originally posted by Diaxion
I have an unanswered question. What happened to Harry's grandparents on his father side, i just don't assume that they died right after James left school because of when Sirius talked about them. I'm so smart

Probably died soon after, though...obviously they aren't alive. That would be a bit of a bugger, if they were and Harry wasn't living with them.

Originally posted by Sheeana
I dunno. who did she confess in front of again?

Harry, Ron, Hermione, Ginny, Luna...and her Inquisitors, Malfoy, Crabbe, Goyle, Pansy, etc. No one the Ministry would believe if it weren't in their best interests. Though we can hope that after what happened the last time they ignored someone, they might listen to people a bit more....

[Khamûl]

People on my good list:
Harry -- quite a bit angrier this time around. Yep, he's a teenager.
Ron and Hermione -- will they just get it over with already?
Ginny -- she's cool now that she's not possessed by Voldemort.
Neville -- whoa. Didn't see all that coming. Very nice.
Fred and George -- my heroes.
Dumbledore -- excellent timing to save the day.
Tonks, Moody, Kingsley, Lupin, etc. -- good supporting cast.
Prof. McGonagall -- my new favorite teacher. I love the way she handles Umbridge.
Peeves -- actually proves useful.
Sirius -- too bad he dies.
Luna -- very... interesting.

I'm sure I'm leaving someone out.

People I want hung up by their toenails:
Umbridge -- she better be glad I'm not a student at Hogwarts.
Percy -- I just want to smack some sense into him.
Kreacher -- I think I'd feed him to Buckbeak.
Cornelius Fudge -- what an idiot. Glad he sort of came around in the end.

Plus Voldemort and the rest of the Death Eaters, but that goes without saying.

[Elfmaster XK]

Originally posted by Elf Girl
What parts of Umbridge were good? She was the closest thing to a villain present at Hogwarts, I should think we saw a lot of her!

*leaps away from Elf Girl's attack*

Don't kill me! I meant to say, her charactierisation. Bad because it was flat at times, but good because other times she was just evil and villanous. But I *do* think she was in it too much. She was there all the time, it just started to annoy me. In GoF Moody was a much better fleshed out villain, even though it wasn't really him.

SheeanaSirius' death felt like it had been just dashed off; I didn't have any particular feeling for this scene other than, Aha! I guessed right! Sirius was an awesome character, and I'm sad that JK Rowling felt that he'd served his purpose, but I'm definately glad it wasn't Ron, or Neville, or Hagrid.

I agree. I didn't believe it at first. You know, because it ended a chapter. I thought next chapter it was to be explained and they'd get him back. But then I read the last page and he was gone still. He didn't deserve that. I disagree with you though, and think Hagrid has served his purpose more than Sirius. But I am glad it wasn't Neville.

Tanowhen he kept yelling (reduce the capitals, JK, it's aggravating); and especially when he refused to talk to people. Eg, he wouldn't tell Dumbledore anything--he just assumed Dumbledore was being closed-mouthed without actually asking him stuff. He wouldn't tell people about...

But he was angry, and I quite understand why. He'd been left out of the circle completely. Then the other characters are always so pitying and understanding. Maybe he felt like he couldn't talk to them anymore. Or didn't feel obliged to after they'd kept everything from him. I liked Stubborn!Harry. Though there were a lot of capitals in there. We've seen angry Harry before, angry with Sirius when he thought he'd killed his parents. I think it's that same kind of vengeful anger but now it's much much stronger. Plus he's angsty teenager now.

I have a question: Why didn't anyone noticed that Lucius Malfoy had that person under the Imperious curse? And why does no one know Harry tried to Crucio! Bellatrix? They're supposed to have detectors at the Ministry and stuff to stop that sort of thing.

[Cirdan]

Originally posted by Sheeana
I dunno. who did she confess in front of again?

About a dozen students. And the Ministry doesn't seem to have very high standards of jurisprudence. But I guess corruption cuts both ways.

So, why did Harry forget the mirrrors? Oh right, nothing happens if he doesn't.

EXK covered everthing v. well.

Very enjoyable over all, except too many wizards seem to have muggle faults. They're a bit more mundane than in the beginning of the series. I did like all the new charaters. I think I met Umbridge once. The "power corrupts" theme was... familiar. Nice summer read.

I'm guessing some serious blows to the Order next time and then a heroic finish for Harry in the last; defeating Voldy and becoming the DaDA professor in the end.

[Elf Girl]

Originally posted by Elfmaster XK
I meant to say, her charactierisation. Bad because it was flat at times, but good because other times she was just evil and villanous. But I *do* think she was in it too much. She was there all the time, it just started to annoy me. In GoF Moody was a much better fleshed out villain, even though it wasn't really him.

Ah. But Umbridge was the conflict in the book, up till the end. How interesting could it have been if she wasn't in it a lot?

[Elfmaster XK]

Originally posted by Cirdan
EXK covered everthing v. well.

I'm guessing some serious blows to the Order next time and then a heroic finish for Harry in the last; defeating Voldy and becoming the DaDA professor in the end.

Thanks Cirdan. I didn't actually think people would be able to read that without getting bored

Originally I covered relationships too. But felt that was really irrelavant here. Anyway. Harry as DaDA teacher. Interesting idea. But, I think he's going to die at the end. I still do.

and either must die at the hand of the other, for neither can live whilst the other survives...the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies.

Both seem to be quite alive at the moment. I don't really understand the prophecy, it doesn't make much sense. Am still pondering how i can make it seem so Harry wil die. I think he will.

Ah. But Umbridge was the conflict in the book, up till the end. How interesting could it have been if she wasn't in it a lot?

Yes, she was. But she was always there. There was nothing she did not see. She had no flaws...wait, all she had was character flaws, evilness etc. That was it. She was a stereotype of a villain. JKR always used the same description for her and that got a bit expected as the book went on. I knew how she'd deal with every situation. She had the characterisation of a minor character, but was there all the time. Am I the only person who found her flat at times?

[Elf Girl]

She didn't see the D.A. meetings, until Marietta Edgecomb squealed. Nor did she see Harry using her fire the first time around.

(I seem to be being very negative and full of antagonism today. Please forgive me, I'm just in a bad mood.)

[Cirdan]

Umbndge was a good variation on the good vs evil. More like real life evil that the Voldemort kind. Just lust for power with no moral compass. I hted her being at Hogwarts but she did make a good tthreat. Completely disposable as a character. Not much there past the villany bit. May get ressurrected if Fudge get offed next time (he's such an idiot, antway).

I don't think we can kill Harry, though, EXK, him being the protagonist and all (Next series - Neville Longbotton and the...?). I'm guessing JKR will find a cute way for Harry to "accidentally" kill Voldemort so he won't be "Killer" Harry.

So is Harry a danger junkie? Just a few weeks after Cedric dies and he's chomping at the bit for action.

[sun-star]

Originally posted by Cirdan
I don't think we can kill Harry, though, EXK, him being the protagonist and all (Next series - Neville Longbotton and the...?). I'm guessing JKR will find a cute way for Harry to "accidentally" kill Voldemort so he won't be "Killer" Harry.

Before this book, I didn't think Harry would end up dead, but now I can see a scenario where he might. If all the people he cares about start dying, he's probably going to wish he's dead anyway. I'm wondering if he might choose to walk through that veil after destroying Voldemort, so he can be with his family and godfather (and let's face it several more main characters by then) again.

EDIT: I forgot one thing I loved about the book - centaurs! I'm a big fan of centaurs, even when they're being mean

[TheWhiteRider]

I have a lot to say about this book, but I can't seem to organize it very well. But I will say this, I think the death of Sirius was very unemotional. I loved Sirius, he may have been my favorite char, but him dying didn't make me feel sad very much. I mean, I was expecting to cry when the "Mystery Character" died, but I found that it wasn't deep or emotianal. Like others have said, it seemed like he didn't die, just because of how short it was.

On a happier note, I very much enjoyed the book. It was written in JK's humourous style, and the depiction of Harry as a true teenager was pretty acurate. I think Fred and George leaving was really cool, but I do hope they go back to school to finish their education, as they were most of the comic relief in the books, and they were crucial to the Quidditch team.

I think that there is no doubt that Harry and the twins will be allowed to play again in Harry's sixth and seventh years, and hopefully Ron will improve over the summer.

I agree with the other mooters who said that the prophecy was not all it was made out to be. We kind of knew that it would come down to Harry vs. Voldermort in the end, anyway, and the prophecy just explained why.

I think that Cho still likes Harry, by how she blushed at the end, when she looked at Harry on the train. Hopefully Harry will learn to talk to her better in the sixth book, and she get's over Cedric's death more. Even though he said about the info that she was dating someone else did not hurt him, I think he will like her again after he has time to think about everything over the summer.

There, I ended up speaking my whole mind anyway, however unorganized it may be.

P.S. Is everyone absolutely certain that there will only be seven books, one for each of his years at hogwarts? Because I think it would be cool for her to write one about his life as an auror. I do think he will become an auror, seeing as he always seems to be a detective with his friends in school.

P.P.S.I just want to comment on how much I think it would suck to be in Harry's place. He has to deal with all those kids, and he gets all that attention, more than half of it not good, without asking for it. I don't blame him for being angry at people for not telling him things. Okay, really, I'm done...for now.