LOTR re-read :)

[Rían]

Sheesh, I thought cancer was hard! I've now been NED (no evidence of disease) for 5 months. You think I might have like, maybe, an easier year this year, but NO! *sigh* We've had some really, REALLY hard extended family issues come up that are dragging us in and are really difficult and painful.

We're getting some good help to deal with it, and it's going to take some time, and it reminded me of the story of a certain long and difficult journey that we are all very familiar with ... so I decided to do a re-read (I also decided to start writing in Tengwar again because that's such a fun thing and I can write all sorts of things down when I'm frustrated and no one will ever know what I said ) Anyway, I thought I'd start a thread on it and see if any of my Moot friends would like to join in Hope to see some of you guys here!

[Alcuin]

I’m in.

[Valandil]

Maybe so... it's sure been awhile. I might to my traditional re-read of The Hobbit first - so don't get too far ahead of me.

[Rían]

Hooray, Alcuin and Val! Val, sounds good - I want to move slowly anyway and really dig deep. I'll check the front door and see if my book got here (I ordered a new copy because my old 3-book paperback set is so old and decrepit that I don't want to damage it anymore)

My wonderful daughter, who was my chemo-buddy last year through all those difficult treatments and hospital stays and blood transfusions and things, is going to do the re-read with me, too. I'll check with my daughter and see if she wants to start with the Hobbit, too, but if she's fine either way, I think I'd like to start with LOTR. I did a re-read of the Hobbit last year, and frankly, I think LOTR is more where I'm at right now. I'll let you guys know

[Rían]

aaaand ... our journey begins

(we are starting with FOTR, not Hobbit - join in when you're ready, Val )

ground rules - none! Enjoy in your own way, including bringing in the movie, which was important to many Mooters, including myself, although in this thread, we all agree that the book REIGNS SUPREME AND ANYONE THAT SEZ ELSEWAY WILL GET THROWN TO THE BALROGS and er, is the source of highest authority

I know that sometimes there is a religious/non-religious divide here, and some prefer the former and some the latter, but we are very openminded and tolerant here which I wish the world would copy and I think it will be just fine. In fact, I think it will enrich the discussion to have different POVs. I am deeply Christian, as was Tolkien, and will definitely be sharing along those lines sometimes, especially because, as I said, I'm going through a very hard time. Let's be sure to respect both POVs here

[Rían]

As I opened to the first chapter, I found that I couldn't remember the opening line! Frankly, though, it's almost impossible to beat the opening line of the Hobbit, which IMHO is absolutely brilliant!! But here it is :

When Mr. Bilbo Baggins of Bag End announced that he would shortly be celebrating his eleventy-first birthday with a party of special magnificence, there was much talk and excitement in Hobbiton.

(Which for some reason brings to mind what I found out today - the parents of Kate Middleton, Dutchess of Cambridge (and future non-reigning Queen of England) live in ... Bucklebury!! )

Could this first line have been better, or is it just me? However, I love love love the rest of the first section, ending with "It isn't natural, and trouble will come of it!"

I also love all the parenthetical asides he puts in - they add to the humor so much; kind of like JRRT was looking away from the book at you and winking at something funny

I like how Tolkien says that Bilbo "had many devoted admirers among the hobbits of poor and unimportant families". Clearly, as was laid out in more detail a bit later, Bilbo was very generous, especially to those in need.

I like how Bilbo took Frodo in - just like hey, I'll adopt you so that we can celebrate our birthdays together easier. Nice and comfortable and making it no big deal. So far, mostly still in the tone of the Hobbit, but just a tad bit more formal.

And that's the end of my journey for tonight; bed for me! As the Hobbits sang at the beginning of their journey, "And then to bed!"

Oh, one more thing - I found that at my first few reads, I kind of skipped over the songs, but now I really appreciate them. Anyone else the same way?

Goodnight all!

[Earniel]

Still got something else on my reading pile so I'll join you lot maybe a while later.

[Valandil]

I'm actually finishing something else too - before I start "The Hobbit". Whole different book: "The Prince" by Machiavelli. I had it as a textbook for a college course but never read it. Getting to it now. Pretty ... interesting!

However - also wanted to mention that I started some threads about three years ago that are still on this first page. Maybe that was the time of my last re-read. I see about four of them. Shall I *bump* as we get to those parts? All are from pretty early in the book.

[Alcuin]

Originally Posted by Valandil

I'm actually finishing something else too - before I start "The Hobbit". ... I started some threads about three years ago that are still on this first page. Maybe that was the time of my last re-read. I see about four of them. Shall I *bump* as we get to those parts? All are from pretty early in the book.

Yes, please bump them.

I’ve just completed re-reading The Hobbit. I need to write and post an essay before I begin Fellowship of the Ring; I’ll try to complete that this week. So I’ll be a laggard, too.

A thought has been burning in my mind for many months now, though: the Forward says,

Three Elf-towers of immemorial age were still to be seen on the Tower Hills beyond the western marches. They shone far off in the moonlight. The tallest was furthest away, standing alone upon a green mound. The Hobbits of the Westfarthing said that one could see the Sea from the lop of that tower; but no Hobbit had ever been known to climb it.

Those towers were built by Gil-galad, either for Elendil or given to him upon his arrival in Middle-earth. The tallest one was where the last of the palantÃ*ri of Arnor was kept, the one that looked upon Avallónë in Tol Eressëa. I think Elendil used it to communicate with his father, Amandil, and with the Elven friends of the Lords of Andúnië who gave Amandil the palantÃ*ri; after he died, no Dúnadan used it again, but the Eldar made pilgrimages to look into it: Gildor Inglorion and his companions who met Frodo, Sam, and Pippin in the Woody End just as the Nazgûl (Khamûl) overtook and was about to capture them, had just returned from such a pilgrimage; Tolkien indicates they had seen a vision of Elbereth Gilthoniel in the palantÃ*r.

After the departure of Elrond and most of the remaining Eldar, that strip of land was empty and the towers unguarded. At Sam’s request (probably more as a suggestion to the King) as Mayor of the Shire, they were added to the Shire, and Sam’s son-in-law, Elanor’s husband Fastred of Greenholm, was made Warden of Westmarch. I believe the towers then fell under his care. I imagine he was given the keys to the towers – and I also think it quite possible that after Sam left Middle-earth following the death of Rose, his wife, that Elanor climbed the tower to look into the West, where her beloved father had gone.

Just a little imagination.

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Alcuin

Yes, please bump them.
:
:
:

But later I thought, "Really - this whole FORUM is full of threads inspired by reading through LOTR. So that would be a little ego-centric of me."

I'll join you on that Tower discussion. I think it's left ambiguous enough that Elendil could have built them. And while it's clear Elendil himself looked into the palantir of Elostirion, I don't see any reason why none of his heirs would have also done it. However - I don't think they'd be as fixated on it as he was. Maybe once each - out of curiosity - until too much Middle Earth pulled them away from it (just as RL does that to us). So you think Amandil was still alive - living in Elvenhome?

I have wondered if Elendil's wife had passed away - either in Numenor or on the journey - and if he used the palantir to look into his past there.

One passage or sentence someplace indicates to me that each palantir had a Warden assigned to keep it. I think this was likely so of the stone at Elostirion as well.

This surely deserves a thread.

Have you ever seen my thread about Elendil watching for Gil-galad at Amon Sul? Forget whether you contributed there.

[Rían]

Val - it's going great! I'm quite a few chapters into it, but haven't had time to post - we're trying to get my daughter to graduate from high school. She's insanely smart, but has had terrible health problems the last two years, and misses more than half of school. This semester, she's missed 73 days so far! and she's taking AP classes! Thank God I'm a math minor so I can tutor her in Calculus, and classes are over next Wednesday, and I think she'll make it!!!

Things are a bit quieter today, so I'm hoping to post my chapter 2 thoughts. Both my daughter and I are definitely going thru Mordor right now!!

[Rían]

so sorry I haven't been able to post, but as of today, my daughter took her last 2 finals and got an A and a B, so we're looking at about a 99.999999 % chance of graduating Thursday! (I'm hoping there's not some stupid regulation we missed somehow). Talk about going thru Mordor! Anyway, I should know tomorrow for sure. I've been reading, but just haven't had time to post.

Looking forward to catching up here!!

[Rían]

and praise God, my daughter graduated!!! We literally didn't know if she was going to graduate or not until 24 hours before the ceremony.

We are still slogging thru Mordor and are making some progress, though, but right as things start to look up, my mentally ill relative crops up again and makes more trouble. God help us! we sure need his help! And the chapter 2 title, Shadow of the Past, is particularly apt at this time. Little did I know when I first met her how much grief and destruction she would wreak But God in His wisdom and power knows how much to allow, and allows it for good, just like in LOTR. We are indeed walking in a dark story now and have been for a while, and all we can do is fight for good and right and trust in God.

CHAPTER TWO - The Shadow of the Past

Well, isn't that true! Things are definitely connected, and our actions have consequences, intended or otherwise. I like how Frodo continues to give parties for Bilbo's birthday. Kind of reminds me of Christian funerals, how it's so sad because we miss them here on earth, but there is still joy that they are out of suffering and we will see them again.

Does anyone else here get the wandering fever in the autumn, like Bilbo and Frodo? I wonder if that's somewhat universal. I know that I get the urge to spring-clean in the spring, but hmm ... maybe there is something about autumn, after a long, lazy summer, that makes you want to get up and going ...

Sam's love and longing for Elves ... what do you guys think that means?

I like that "once familiar tap on the study window" of Gandalf's. It's just such a wonderful sound - a familiar sound that means a loved friend is here!!!!

"Something always held [Gandalf] back" from consulting with Saruman - I wonder how often our hunches are right? I've learned to go with hunches, as long as I know they aren't harmful. I think God works with hunches sometimes.

Frodo - "I wish it need not have happened in my time" - whew, don't we all feel that about some hardship we face! And of course, Gandalf follows with one of the best lines in the book, IMHO - "All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

Interesting how Gollum hates the Ring, as well as loves it. And how now he has no will left in the matter. And interesting how the Ring didn't "seek" an Orc, as Frodo suggested - sometimes more harm can be done through "better" people?

And we meet Aragorn here in this chapter. Just a brief mention - no idea of how much he will figure in the book (I wonder how much JRRT knew at this time?)

And another of the great motifs of the book here - Frodo: "What a pity that Bilbo did not stab that vile creature, when he had a chance!" And Gandalf's reply that it was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand, and he was well rewarded.

Interesting how actually seeing someone will help give you pity, as Gandalf said. It's easy to insulate ourselves against the sorrows of the world, but better to find out about them and see how we can help.

And ANOTHER of the great lines - "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."

And how Gandalf always hopes for people to change for the better.

Interesting how Gandalf is not the best candidate for the Ringbearer. He's an obvious choice, but we are all gifted in different ways, and sometimes the "little guy" is a lot more "powerful" than we can see. We each need to be who God made us, and not try to be like someone else. We need to be the best us, and not a second-rate (or worse!) someone else!

[brownjenkins]

The Shadow of the Past is the chapter that truly hooked me on Tolkien! I think I was in third grade at the time. I think I have to do a re-read now. It's been a while!

[ringbearer]

I have also started probably my 27th re-read...gets better each time!

[Rían]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

The Shadow of the Past is the chapter that truly hooked me on Tolkien! I think I was in third grade at the time. I think I have to do a re-read now. It's been a while!

Yeah, it had been a while for me too, and I'm really enjoying it!

And Shadow of the Past is such a brilliant piece of writing.

[Valandil]

Less than 20 pages left to finish "The Hobbit" - then I'm joining in!

[Rían]

Yay! Maybe we can get it moving a bit better. I'm back from a camping trip to Yosemite and all unpacked, so I'll pick it up again

[Valandil]

About there. Reading a 50th anniversary edition large paperback by Houghton Mifflin, which first has 20 pages of Notes on Text, Notes on 50th Anniversary Edition and Foreward. Read all that and now halfway through the 20 pages of Prologue. So I'll be in the story proper pretty soon.

[Valandil]

Finally read a good deal last night. Maybe 25 pages or more. Just reached Farmer Maggot's home and went inside.