What's the point....

[Baby-K]

....of having threads with different titles, like Gays, lesbians & bisexuals....Religion & individualism....Why you believe what you do....well, just about every second thread in GM, when they just all come down to the same old arguments about christianity VS the world?

Just merge the lot into one big pool of religious warblings and get it over with :shrug:

[inked]

We could have the "I don't like to read other people's life-stuff it it disagrees with mine" thread, but we'd have to not let people do aught save complain. Wait, that's the "temporary venting thread" isn't it!

Baby k, I sympathise with your reaction but from the opposite side.
Then, again, we have the control of our "mice" so ...

[Sister Golden Hair]

Yeah it is annoying, and some of these threads are such a pain to moderate because they have become so long.

Hmmm, March 21st will be here soon. Wonder if I should do another spring cleaning of GMs. Everyone, watch those post counts drop.

I could put a sticky up and members and staff could discuss which threads to merge and which to delete. What do ya think guys?

[Baby-K]

Originally Posted by inked

We could have the "I don't like to read other people's life-stuff it it disagrees with mine" thread, but we'd have to not let people do aught save complain. Wait, that's the "temporary venting thread" isn't it!

Baby k, I sympathise with your reaction but from the opposite side.
Then, again, we have the control of our "mice" so ...

I don't mind that other people's pov's disagree with mine and I don't mind hearing / reading about other people's lives etc. It does however pee all over my delicate little battery when it's the same arguments being used all the time in different threads by the same people, regardless of whether or not the discussion is about religion or not.

[Valandil]

Well - does anyone think it would be a good idea to lump all the Tolkien discussion into one thread, for simplicity?

Personally - I think it'd get rather confusing. There ARE specific topics to discuss... and nobody's arm is getting twisted to take part - or even pay attention.

[Draken]

Originally Posted by Valandil

Well - does anyone think it would be a good idea to lump all the Tolkien discussion into one thread, for simplicity?

But are many Tolkien discussion threads allowed to become bogged down by the same old plodding rounds of stupor-inducing tedium?

btw if your response is that the above-mentioned dross is far better off in the General forum than tainting proper Tolkien threads - I agree, wholeheartedly.

[Elemmírë]

Originally Posted by Sister Golden Hair

Yeah it is annoying, and some of these threads are such a pain to moderate because they have become so long.

Hmmm, March 21st will be here soon. Wonder if I should do another spring cleaning of GMs. Everyone, watch those post counts drop.

I could put a sticky up and members and staff could discuss which threads to merge and which to delete. What do ya think guys?

They're a pain to read through too if you haven't yet gotten around to it.

I'm all for cleaning the place up a bit, SGH... Wouldn't mind having my post count drop into something more... sane...

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Baby-K

....of having threads with different titles, like Gays, lesbians & bisexuals....Religion & individualism....Why you believe what you do....well, just about every second thread in GM, when they just all come down to the same old arguments about christianity VS the world?

What exactly are you suggesting, Baby-K? That only agnostics/atheists should be able to post their viewpoints in threads like Gay/Les? Sounds pretty prejudiced to me... but I'm not too surprised, as many atheists/agnostics seem to think somehow that their viewpoints aren't beliefs, and "religious" viewpoints ARE beliefs. Go figure!

The simple fact is that each person's opinions are based on their individual worldviews, which are based on ... BELIEFS. However, many Christians have been bulllied into thinking that their beliefs are second-class somehow, and atheistic/agostic beliefs are somehow "neutral" or somehow NOT beliefs. Your post is typical of this attitude, IMO, and of course this attitude is totally illogical. Perhaps you can explain this to me? I certainly don't see any logic in your complaint.

MORAL topics are based on BELIEFS. Right? If you don't think so, can you explain how they are NOT based on beliefs?

I don't intend to be intimidated into taking a second-class position here (or at least I won't take one quietly )

Why don't you give it a try? Why don't you create a thread called "Gay/Les discussions only from the BELIEF POV of atheists/agnostics - "religious" people (esp. Christians) don't post!" Give it a go and see what happens I would certainly honor the request of the thread-starter. I think this would be to everyone's loss, tho - aren't "diversity" and "tolerance" terms that are normally thought to be positive? Isn't it valuable to learn what other people with differing viewpoints think, and why they think it? I certainly think so.

Frankly, I think the main complaint is that some of the Christians here are able to intelligently discuss their viewpoints, complete with background history and detail and cohesiveness and sense, and frankly, the atheistic/agnostic viewpoint basically comes down to "I think this is right, yet I have nothing to base it on except my own feelings and thoughts." Which is fine - that is certainly their right, and I think everyone has a right to their own beliefs. But it makes it rather hard to expound at length on topics when that's your belief system. But I'm tolerant, and I give respect and consideration to those of differing belief systems, and I have really, REALLY enjoyed the debates in these types of threads among people with differing beliefs.

Just merge the lot into one big pool of religious warblings and get it over with :shrug:

I'm glad you started this thread, Baby-K, because I think it highlights a problem that, sadly, is even showing up at our wonderful Entmoot - that of some people being prejudiced against other people because of their beliefs, while THEIR beliefs somehow get a pass. Why are my BELIEFS characterized as "warblings" and non-Christian BELIEFS not characterized as "warblings"?

[Sister Golden Hair]

I don't think that is what she is saying Rian. I think she is saying that there are several threads that are discussing the same religious issues over and over again. I happen to agree with her on that. Although some of the topics have religious aspects to them, religious discussion in some of these threads has overshadowed the actual topic and its issues.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Baby-K

I don't mind that other people's pov's disagree with mine and I don't mind hearing / reading about other people's lives etc. It does however pee all over my delicate little battery when it's the same arguments being used all the time in different threads by the same people, regardless of whether or not the discussion is about religion or not.

I recently started a thread on folk dancing. I didn't mention religion, because folk dancing is not a moral issue. It's that simple.

When I post on a moral issue thread, I intend to discuss my beliefs, just like athiests and agnostics do. Do you think I should be gagged and not allowed to discuss my beliefs, while allowing other people to discuss THEIR beliefs? Atheists/agnostics offer "the same arguments being used all the time in different threads" on moral issue threads. Why don't you complain about THAT?

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Sister Golden Hair

I don't think that is what she is saying Rian. I think she is saying that there are several threads that are discussing the same religious issues over and over again. I happen to agree with her on that. Although some of the topics have religious aspects to them, religious discussion in some of these threads has overshadowed the actual topic and its issues.

I agree with SGH here. I don't even bother going into the Gay/les or the evolution thread. They're completely boring - it's the same old argument over and over again.

What getrs me is when relgion starts to get discussed in a thread that has NOTHING whatsoever to do with religion. BTW - if you look - the Gay and Lesbian thread did not start out as a relgious discussion - but now that is ALL it is - is one giant religious discussion, when in the beginning it was just about people who are gay and what they have to go through and things. Now it's so relgious centric with the same arguments over and over. The religious people are accused of being bigots and gay and lesbian defenders just annnounce that they themselves are the enlightened lot. It's damn boring in those threads.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Sister Golden Hair

I don't think that is what she is saying Rian. I think she is saying that there are several threads that are discussing the same religious issues over and over again. I happen to agree with her on that. Although some of the topics have religious aspects to them, religious discussion in some of these threads has overshadowed the actual topic and its issues.

But people don't have to post on threads they don't like

If you're talking about the "why you believe what you believe" thread, there are people there that have really enjoyed that thread - no one is forced to post there, or even read it

If you're talking about the gay/les thread, why should only people with certain beliefs be allowed/encouraged to post?

Perhaps the problem is that I, personally, tend to be wordy, and my posts "take over" a thread. If so, I guess the moderators need to discuss it and perhaps ask me to not post as much? That would be an interesting decision, tho ...

SGH, I think it's mainly what I said - that some "non-religious" people are used to "religious" people caving in to the false opinion that "religious" beliefs are somehow different than "non-religious" beliefs, and I, along with several other Christians, refuse to give in to this lie, and it's irritating! When one is used to saying, "your beliefs, since I classify them as "religious", don't matter", and people cave into it, then all of a sudden a "religious" person does NOT cave into this obvious falsehood, it's just really irritating.

I really love Entmoot and respect the mods and admins. If you'd like, contact me by email, PM, or even give me a ring on the telly I've been a steady contributing member at Entmoot for almost 2 years now, and have always tried to honor the Entmoot rules and all Entmooters as people, and am glad to work with any mod or admin. Please consider my history at the Moot, and give me a call if you'd like

[Rían]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

It's damn boring in those threads.

It's OBVIOUSLY not boring to some people, as that thread is really flying at times!

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

It's OBVIOUSLY not boring to some people, as that thread is really flying at times!

yeah - it's the same old argument going around and around and around. A merry go round is fun the first couple of times too - but it gets old after a while. So how much new discussion has their been? If you look at my post on the first page of the gay and lesbian thread you will see that I said this....

I think I see a pattern emerging on who stands on which side of the issue. (look at the evolution thread)

219 pages later - nothing has changed and it's the same old argument. Just in the beginning it was less religious centric.

[Rían]

I repeat - it's obviously not boring to some people

This thread, and the creationism thread, get periodically resurrected as new people come on board. I for one don't have a problem with re-discussing things with new people, instead of saying "we already discussed that last year!" and shutting them out.

It seems simple to me - if you're bored with a thread, don't post

[Starr Polish]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

I agree with SGH here. I don't even bother going into the Gay/les or the evolution thread. They're completely boring - it's the same old argument over and over again.

What getrs me is when relgion starts to get discussed in a thread that has NOTHING whatsoever to do with religion. BTW - if you look - the Gay and Lesbian thread did not start out as a relgious discussion - but now that is ALL it is - is one giant religious discussion, when in the beginning it was just about people who are gay and what they have to go through and things. Now it's so relgious centric with the same arguments over and over. The religious people are accused of being bigots and gay and lesbian defenders just annnounce that they themselves are the enlightened lot. It's damn boring in those threads.

For once, JD and I completely agree.

[Nurvingiel]

I agree with RÃ*an. When someone (and numerous people are guilty of this) posts yet another article () I lurk a while and wander on to a more interesting thread. Or just make some minor comment and lurk.

I happen to think the GLB thread would be more interesting without the extreme religious debate it has become. I would rather hear about the experiences of actual gay people rather than debate the morality of homosexuality from afar. But I can't climb through the computer and force people to post what I want, so meh.

There tends to be tides at a message board - waves of high and low activity, interest in different areas... I suspect we'll move on from the giant religious debates o'doom sooner or later. (Not that I really mind discussion religion.)

On that note, it's not just Christianity versus the world Baby-K. It's more complicated than that. Christians disagree with each other a lot, as do Buddhists, Muslims, atheists and, well, people!

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

It seems simple to me - if you're bored with a thread, don't post

let me ask you - have you NOTICED me posting there?

I'm all for including others into a conversation and discussing things with new members. The thing is - the threads are entirely relgious centric and you can't actually discuss anything other than how religion plays a role in the subjects at hand. Sorry - the same old argument is boring there and it's just one big circular argument.

[sun-star]

I agree with RÃ*an. I hardly ever post in the religious threads because I do find them repetitive (though they get interesting when new people arrive). In fact there's a lot of threads on the board which mean absolutely nothing to me, including the entire Star Wars forum and most of the sport threads. But it irritates me when people take it upon themselves to say that because a topic doesn't interest them, it shouldn't be discussed. Like the recent thread on Charles and Camilla getting married - people posted there saying it didn't interest them and they didn't see the point of talking about it. But when there are people who do want to talk about something, why shouldn't you let them? It's not like the religious threads actually stop you from discussing what you want to discuss. Just start a new thread or whatever.

Also, lots of the religious threads have been split off from other topics because religion/ethics comes into many other issues, and I can't see how it could be feasibly contained within one thread.

[Sister Golden Hair]

But when there are people who do want to talk about something, why shouldn't you let them? It's not like the religious threads actually stop you from discussing what you want to discuss. Just start a new thread or whatever.

The problem is that many of the threads were originally not religious threads even if they have religious or moral issues. They did not start out that way. Once though religion is brought into them, the original topic is no longer being discussed.

Also, lots of the religious threads have been split off from other topics because religion/ethics comes into many other issues, and I can't see how it could be feasibly contained within one thread.

It can't be. The trouble is that it's fine to discuss the moral or religious relations to the topic, but don't be redundant and take the original subject off topic and then go on for 200 pages plus about religion. The GLB thread is a perfect example of this happening in.