The Silmarillion, Chapter 8: Of the Darkening of Valinor

[Attalus]

Well, "Ungoliant" was the title the pic is posted under. And, yeah, I am an admirer of John Howe's work. I especially like "The Fall of Gondolin."

[Fat middle]

this one is simillar, but i prefer it since it makes Ungoliant looks bigger and you can see some darkness aroun her Ungoliant

[Attalus]

@-@ That one is plenty scary, all right. Ever notice that they always make Melkor's helmet like that? And Sauron has one similar in the movie?

[Rían]

Great summary, Attalus! (And very funny, too )

I really like the HoME X version that Maedhros quoted, esp. "Then Fëanor fell upon his face and lay as one dead, until the full tale was told" - you can just picture him stricken to the heart with grief. And Maedhros' wording of the tragedy is just so heart-rending.

And I think this section also explains how Melkor could get the Sils so easily - "We lay upon our faces without strength; for suddenly the cloud came on, and for a while we were blind." It's definitely NOT a matter of the sons of Fëanor being weak or timid (they certainly weren't!!), it's just that Melkor's power was so great that they were rendered blind and without strength. And if Melkor could do this to Fëanor's sons, he could do it to anyone, I would imagine.

[Attalus]

Thanks, RÃ*an. Yep, I liked that, too, and was going to discuss it in the next chapter.

[LickTheEnvelope]

Hey All

Quick question Attalus,

in this link: Howe-Melkor

Melkor is holding a broad sword...

I was under the impression that he didn't carry any weapons?

Perhaps I am thinking of a different time in the story, earlier, when it says he did not carry a weapon.

I know Tulkas didn't carry one and I thought Melkor didn't either?

Just wondering! AM LOVING THE SILMARILLION THANKS FOR RECOMMENDING IT TO ME ALL!

[Lefty Scaevola]

That is the scene of Melkor and Unglolient killing the two trees in Valinor. He should be carrying a 'black spear" reather than a sword. In Middle Earth his preffered weapon was a great mace, "Grond, the Hammer of the Underworld".

[Viëllémerwè]

I like to think that Ungoliant was created together with Arda in the music of Eru and the Ainur. When Melkor started his own music in discord with the others, one false note came forth and that one false note created Ungoliant. Well, who knows.

[kerbouchard]

Originally Posted by Viëllémerwè

I like to think that Ungoliant was created together with Arda in the music of Eru and the Ainur. When Melkor started his own music in discord with the others, one false note came forth and that one false note created Ungoliant. Well, who knows.

Yes Ungoliant was a Maia. IT was stated in the first chapter of the Silmarillion Ainulindalë) that in the beginning of the world, when the greatest of the Ainur - the Valar - descended into Arda "...the Valar drew unto them many companions, some less, some well nigh as great as themselves..." those would be the Maiar and some were stronger and some weaker. Also in the chapter "Valaquenta" it states that the number of the Maiar is not known to the elves.

We can assume they are numerous as the world was populated with many spirits in many forms. Balrogs, Eagles, water nymphs and even ... spiders.

Concerning Melkor, he had no ability to create beings that could act of their own volition. Consider the sequence when Aulë (whose might was little less than that of Melkor) creates the Dwarves. Illuvatar says "thou hast from me as a gift thy own being only, and no more; and therefore the creatures of thy hand and mind can live only by that being, moving when thou thinkest to move them and if thy thought be elsewhere, standing idle"

So Melkor could not create life, he could only corrupt and he perverted elves to create orcs, and corrupted maiar to serve him as balrogs and to live inside of other creatures such as dragons.

[Valarauko5]

I might just mention that the Balrogs (actually called Valarauco in Elven for "power Demon") It doesn't really say wether they were the of the ones that were drawn to him or of the ones he corrupted. Just had to say that cause I love Balrogs. But in terms of Ungoliant and the sons of Feanor. Maybe part of her power of devouring was to draw out the intelligence and strength of all around her. Remember that later on when the sons of Feanor fight against Morgoth hand to hand, the are not overcome with weakness. And maybe her power to do this weakened her own intellect. This would seem to go along with the idea of her devouring all around her. I realize I'm just a newbie, but does this seem to make sense to anyone?

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

And I think this section also explains how Melkor could get the Sils so easily - "We lay upon our faces without strength; for suddenly the cloud came on, and for a while we were blind." It's definitely NOT a matter of the sons of Fëanor being weak or timid (they certainly weren't!!), it's just that Melkor's power was so great that they were rendered blind and without strength. And if Melkor could do this to Fëanor's sons, he could do it to anyone, I would imagine.

I always thought that the dark cloud was Ungoliant's doing, not Melkor's. It was overpowering the sons of Feanor, making them unable to do anything.

[Valarauko5]

I agree with Varnafinde. It WAS Ungoliant's power that caused the shadow not Melkor.

[DARKastheRAIN]

That scene from MR is one of my favorites of everything I've ever read of Tolkien's

Not least because my favorite character gets to talk more in one scene than he talks (in direct quotes) throughout the whole published sil

I love how he just runs in their and shouts "Blood and darkness" He's just so dramatic. It's the perfect reaction for someone who's lived in this wonderful paradise all his life and has just now seen real evil for the first time ever.

[Earniel]

From the text I got the idea that the darkening of the Trees was a gradual process. Ungoliant first drank from both Trees until their sap was spent and her poison withered them, and then she turned to the Wells of Varda, which were the great vats of stored dew from both Trees.

Now Ungoliant was a big (and growing) and thirsty spider but that must still have taken some time.

Now I'm picturing the scene: all the Valar, maiar, Vanyar and Noldor are gathered together for a party. The Trees' light had just begone to mingle than than suddenly it diminishes and diminishes, which it had never ever done until bang, utter darkness ensues.

What I don't get is that literally nobody seems to think, "hey one Tree should be waxing now but somehow the light keeps getting inexplicably dimmer so I can hardly see this buffet table anymore. Maybe I should see if the batteries need replacing or something."

Nobody seems to suspect a thing until they can no longer see at all. No one even went to check until it was far too late. You're having a party and you keep watching it grow darker and darker until it's pitch dark before you panic? Who does that? Talk about complacent.