What All Was Wrong with PJ's LOTR

[Miss Cassandra]

Originally Posted by Peter_20

I saw a bunch of girls my age walking around in white linen the other day, and they could have been mistaken for elves if they actually were beautiful.
But they weren't.
They laughed a lot, but it didn't sound enchanting at all, and they weren't pretty or anything either.

I actually found it pretty frustrating: they DID resemble elves at first, but then their total lack of beauty really annoyed me.
They seemed somewhat cocky, as well.

Damn those girls who only think they are beautiful.
Sounds like they are trying to enchant everyone who sees them, lame.

Sorry a little off topic

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

i admit the fimls got a lot wrong, but they also got a lot right, but just imagine if pj et al had gone with their original idea of arwen at helms deep...aaarrrggghhh!!!

[Meriadoc Brandybuck]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

i admit the fimls got a lot wrong, but they also got a lot right, but just imagine if pj et al had gone with their original idea of arwen at helms deep...aaarrrggghhh!!!

They were considering that ?! *faints*

[tolkienfan]

Yeah, they even filmed some. There's this one part, where Legolas is pulling up Aragorn and Gimli from the bridge, when Legolas looks over his shoulder at no one. It's because originally Arwen was there! They kept the shot and just erased her out.

[Miss Cassandra]

* Incorrectly regarded as goofs: Many viewers reported that they spotted a car in the background of the theatrical version when Sam says that he is now the furthest he has ever been from home. In a 1 December 2003 Newsweek article, director Peter Jackson confirms the presence of a car, seen in the theatrical release of the movie. The DVD versions reveal no such car, because it was subsequently removed digitally. Jackson says: "We actually didn't know about the car until we were cutting the movie. The smoke and dust wasn't so bad because there was already lots of it around, but the bloody windshield was reflecting the sun back into the camera lens. So we erased it for the DVD. I think some people were upset because they tried to show it to their friends and it was gone."

* Incorrectly regarded as goofs: Gimli attempts to smash the ring with an axe which is completely destroyed, breaking into several pieces. In the next shot the pieces are missing and, when he pledges his axe to Frodo several minutes later, the axe is suddenly intact. In fact, he snatches the axe of the dwarf next to him to attack the ring.

* Revealing mistakes: As Frodo runs from the orcs, his cape is clearly supported by a string to make it look flowing.

* Continuity: As Boromir lies dying, Aragorn leans over him. In the shots over Aragorn's shoulder, looking at Boromir, Boromir's right hand rests on Aragorn's left shoulder. In shots looking at Aragorn, the hand is not there. This is because these shots looking at Aragorn while he is speaking to Boromir were actually shot without Sean Bean.

* Continuity: While the four hobbits (Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin) are at The Prancing Pony in Bree, Merry returns from the bar with a pint and Pippin takes off to get his own. When the angle changes to an over-head shot, Merry is no longer at the table and Pippin is suddenly back in place. This was obviously a shot that carried over from the previous scene (prior to Merry's return from the bar).

* Continuity: When Sam reveals to Gandalf what he overheard of Gandalf's and Frodo's conversation, a map disappears and reappears under his right shoulder. The fallen books on the floor also change position between shots.

* Audio/visual unsynchronized: When Arwen and Aragorn are alone together on a bridge in Rivendell, her lips are moving while he is speaking.

* Audio/visual unsynchronized: In the dwarf mine, when Gandalf sits outside the three doorways and talks to Frodo, Frodo's close-ups are taken from reaction shots to Gandalf's speech so that we see Gandalf's beard moving as if he was talking, even though no sound is heard.

* Revealing mistakes: As Aragorn leads the Hobbits through the woods after leaving Bree, the pack on his back bumps the camera.

* Continuity: When Aragorn's pack bumps the camera, it's on his right shoulder, but in the next shot you see it's on the left.

* Factual errors: In the Council of Elrond scene, there is a close-up of the One Ring while the members of the Council argue about who should take the ring to Mordor. The reflection of the council as seen in the ring is the same as shot of the council as seen by the camera. This is incorrect. The shot should be a mirror image.

* Crew or equipment visible: A cord of some kind is visible behind the boat after Sam is pulled into it by Frodo at the end of the film.

* Continuity: Throughout the movie, Frodo's fingernails are very bitten down and short, but a close-up when the Black Rider tries to sniff him out shows neatly manicured nails.

* Continuity: The positions of Gimli's axes as he stands in Balin's tomb.

* Revealing mistakes: The forced perspective trick becomes visible while Gandalf and Bilbo are having tea. As Bilbo is pottering about, Gandalf sits on a Hobbit-sized chair at a table that is too small for him. As he shuffles slightly to get comfortable, his knees move the table, but only his, smaller, half moves - the other half, where Bilbo is seated, is further away from the camera, and stays put. It can be seen that this gap between the two table "halves" is concealed behind cleverly placed, bottles, plates, etc. Then, when Bilbo is about to pour hot water in the teapot, Gandalf lifts the teapot lid for him. The lid is not on the teapot, but placed on a spike nearer to the camera to create the forced perspective. It is also clearly visible when Gandalf puts the lid back.

* Continuity: Gandalf's belt repeatedly switches between being tied and untied as he speaks to Bilbo.

* Continuity: The rope handle of Gandalf's staff jumps around his hand between cuts during his meeting with Saruman.

* Continuity: When Gandalf first appears riding on his cart, there is a long grey-green cloth hanging from the lantern on the right-hand side of the cart, with Gandalf's staff on the left. In the next shot, the lantern and cloth have switched sides with the staff (which itself moves back and forth between shots as Gandalf and Frodo travel into the village). It would seem that the first shot has been flipped so that the "road" bends round to the left to match the curve of the road as Gandalf approaches Frodo in the next shot.

* Continuity: When Saruman first attacks Gandalf he uses his staff in his right hand. In the next shot from behind Saruman he is holding his staff with his left hand above his right hand, but in the next shot from the front it is back with his right hand above his left.

* Continuity: At the council of Lord Elrond, once the fellowship has been formed, in the close-ups of the hobbits you can see that they measure up above Gandalf's beard and Legolas's hair, almost up to their necks, but in the wide shots of the whole fellowship they are clearly smaller - only about waist height.

* Audio/visual unsynchronized: As Saruman reveals the Palantir to Gandalf, he lifts the cloth while speaking the line "Why should we fear to use it?" As he finishes the line, his mouth is still moving.

* Revealing mistakes: After the huge orc battle, one of the "dead" orcs sits up and has a good look round before lying back down. This has been explained away in all manner of different ways, but it strikes a sufficient number of viewers as incongruous that it seems more likely to be a genuine error than not.

* Revealing mistakes: When the Black Rider comes into shot while the hobbits are hiding under the tree-roots, he appears on the left-hand side of the tree without first being visible on the right-hand side (though it has been claimed that this is intentional).

* Continuity: Boromir's shield continually disappears and reappears during the battle at Balin's tomb.

* Continuity: During the Mirror of Galadriel scene, Galadriel is still holding the vase that held the water for the mirror, there are several shots of her as Frodo looks into the mirror and she never moves. When Frodo falls backwards there is a full body shot of her and she is no longer holding the vase.

* Revealing mistakes: In the theatrical version, Saruman's lower legs disappear for a frame or two as the camera swoops toward him when he is standing on the summit of Orthanc, bringing the lightning down on the mountain. This has been corrected in the extended edition of the film.

* Revealing mistakes: When Boromir cuts his finger on the broken sword, the blood is visible on his finger behind the sword before he gets cut, and as the sword is pulled away, his undamaged fingertip is visible through the blood.

* Revealing mistakes: When Bilbo takes Gandalf's hat and staff at Bag End. The staff has been erased behind Bilbo, preventing it from getting a false perspective in the composited scene

* Continuity: In the Extended Edition, Sam and Frodo change places between shots when they see the Wood Elves leaving.

* Continuity: Before the water creature attacks, Frodo is facing the lake/facing the mine entrance between shots.

* Continuity: When Frodo crouches back from the Ringwraiths on Weathertop, the Ringwraith closest to him has a sword in his right and a knife in his left hand. After Frodo puts on the Ring, the Ringwraith's left Hand can be seen - but the knife is gone.

* Continuity: The main Ringwraith on Weathertop draws its sword twice as it approaches Frodo.

* Revealing mistakes: When the dragon-firework Merry and Pippin have stolen goes off, the fuse is still burning. Several inches of fuse clearly remain, yet it launches.

* Revealing mistakes: During filming 'Christopher Lee' broke his finger. As Saruman is summoning the lightning when the fellowship are climbing the snowy mountain, as the camera swoops past Saruman you can see Lee's heavily bandaged finger.

* Continuity: During the introduction, Isildur's father is smashed against a rocky hill, the same place where the one ring is cut from Sauron's hand. The overhead shot that follows, shows no such hill.

* Audio/visual unsynchronized: When the troll grabs Frodo by the leg, Frodo calls for Aragon but his lips don't match what he's saying.

* Incorrectly regarded as goofs: Gandalf loses his staff when he is imprisoned by Saruman, but later he has it again. Or so it seems. Actually, it's a visibly different staff. He also seems to lose his hat, but he leaves it on his horse, whose fate is never established. It doesn't seem implausible that it could have made its way back to Rivendell, just as Bill the pony is expected to do later in the movie, so that Gandalf could have retrieved his hat when he made his way there himself.

* Revealing mistakes: When first in the mines of Moria, Gandalf is walking along a ledge right before he explains what the dwarves' mine for, you can see him kick the wire that lights up his staff.

* Continuity: When the four Hobbits enter the Prancing Pony, there's a book on the counter with nothing on it. In the following shot, there is a feather lying on the book and a little bottle of ink next to it.

* Continuity: When King Elendil is hit by Sauron and falls to the ground, his helmet is on his head, when Isildur runs to him, it is lying beside him.

* Continuity: In the final fight between Aragorn and the chief Uruk Hai, Aragorn is thrown against a tree and we see his sword fall from his hand. The next shot shows the Uruk Hai throw his shield pinning Aragorn to the tree and again we see his sword fall from his hand.

* Continuity: After Gandalf pounds his magical staff into the stone on the bridge of Khaza-Dûm, a wideshot is shown in which the head of the staff is on the left side of his face (our left), but in the following close-up, it is on his right

* Continuity: When the Balrog snares Gandalf at the bridge of Khazad-Dum with its whip and pulls Gandalf to the edge of the broken bridge, the bridge surface is smooth and no ridges are visible all the way to the edge of the broken bridge. The tracks left by Gandalf's hands in the dirt on the bridge further indicate that. However, in the next shot when Gandalf is clinging to the bridge, just before he says, "Fly, you fools," there is a ridge that Gandalf uses to grab on that is not present in the previous shot.

* Revealing mistakes: As Elrond is explaining the quest, the close-ups of the Ring reflect the top of the set on which it was filmed.

* Continuity: When Gandalf arrives at the hobbit village, he lauches some fireworks and the children cheer and jump with their hands in the air. In next shot, at least one of them (to the right of the screen) has both arms pressed to her body.

* Continuity: Immediately after the Riders are overthrown in the river, a shot of Arwen shows her right arm (holding the sword) lowered. In the next shot, her arm is raised high over her head, as though she were still challenging the riders.

* Continuity: As Frodo catches a ride on Gandalf's cart through the Shire, in close-ups, sunlight is brightly shining on Frodo's face from the right, but in close-ups of Gandalf sitting beside him, the sunlight is coming from above and left.

* Revealing mistakes: At the end of the film, there is a wide shot showing Merry being carried off by the Uruk-hai. It is clear that the full-sized, 5' 7" Monaghan is in the shot rather than the scale double - his feet hang way down below the Uruk-hai's hips.

* Continuity: When Boromir is running to save Merry and Pippin from the Uruks, he is clearly shown with sword in hand. However, when he reaches them, he has no sword - both hands are free to stop the swing of an Uruk's axe.

* Revealing mistakes: When Aragorn is leading the hobbits through the Midge-water Marshes and Pippin falls flat on his face you can see the prosthetics on his foot falling off.

* Continuity: When Gandalf knocks on the door at Bag End, there is a small leather pouch attached to his satchel. When he is walking through the door, it has disappeared.

* Revealing mistakes: In Hobbiton, Gandalf's cart pulls away from the Hobbit children who are begging for fireworks. When the camera angle is looking back at the children from the viewpoint of the cart, there are treaded tire tracks in the dirt of the road.

* Continuity: In Moria when Frodo is stabbed be the cave troll he is stabbed in the stomach, when he falls the spear is clearly through his left armpit and when he sits back up, the hole in his shirt is near his right shoulder.

* Continuity: When Arwen is challenging the Ring Wraiths at the ford, her hair alternates between hanging down in front of her and hanging down her back.

* Continuity: When Galdalf and Saruman are fighting in the tower, the bloody cut on Gandalf's forehead disappears and reappears between shots.

* Continuity: After Bilbo's birthday party, Bilbo enters his house and takes off the ring. He then steps over to a walking stick, picks it up with his left hand and transfers it to his right hand. In the very next shot the stick is back in left hand, and what appear to be a couple of small maps are now in his right hand.

* Continuity: When the Ring Wraiths are at the river, they draw their swords left handed. In the very next shot, all nine swords are in Right hands.

* Continuity: The distance at which Gimli is kneeling from Balin's tomb changes between shots. In one shot he is close enough to lean his head/helmet on the tomb, in the other shots he is much further away.

* Revealing mistakes: As Legolas, Aragon, and one of the hobbits enter the woods of Lothlorien, you can make out tire treads in the grass starting at the lower right hand side of the screen.

* Continuity: During the fight between Gandalf and Saruman, Saruman closes all the doors in the tower. During the fight Gandalf is thrown around a lot and you can see one of the doors open, but in the next shot Saruman is thrown at this door which then breaks open (again).

* Continuity: After Boromir is shot with two arrows and is still trying to fight the Uruk-hai, the arrows disapear completely, then one can be seen (the one in his shoulder), then finally two again. When only the one arrow is seen, you can still see the blood stain from the second arrow, but the arrow is not there. When he is hit by the third arrow, all three arrows are visible. When Aragorn is kneeling over Boromir, after Boromir dies, and starts to stand up, there only appears to be two arrows in his body at that time.

* Continuity: When Aragorn defeated the Uruk-Hai who shot arrows at Boromir he had blood in his mouth but when he ran and talked to Boromir there was no blood.

* Continuity: When the company set out, they have a pony with them. In a later long shot, the pony is nowhere to be seen. In a shot after this, the pony is back with them.

* Continuity: On the DVD cover of 'The Fellowship of The Ring', the cut on Arwen's face is on her left cheek. Throughout the movie the cut is on her right cheek.

* Continuity: When the hobbits first see Aragorn his beard is shaved down but when Aragorn saw Frodo disappear and took him into a private room his beard is fully grown.

* Revealing mistakes: As the hobbits scramble to get up after their fall over the cliff near Farmer Maggot's field, the 'poop' that Pippin has just narrowly missed is bumped, revealing it to be rubber.

* Continuity: When Gandalf and Frodo are first discussing the history of the ring in Bag End, Frodo is pouring the drink. In the next shot, he's already sitting down with a drink in his hand.

* Continuity: When Everard Proudfoot sees Gandalf coming into Hobbiton on his cart, his wife walks beside him and gives him a dirty look. Then a few fireworks go off to impress the kids behind him, and the shot goes back to Everard Proudfoot, who's wife walks beside him again and gives him the same look.

* Crew or equipment visible: Reflectors can be seen in the Lothlorien scene, in the mirrorbowl as well as the watercan.

* Continuity: When Bilbo opens the door of his house to greet Gandalf, the wizard raises his hand from his side when he says, "Bilbo Baggins!" However, in the next shot, his hand is back at his side as if he hadn't moved.

* Continuity: When Frodo saves Sam from drowning, they clasp each other in the "acrobat-grip", they both clasp the other one's wrist, a very tight grip. However, when Sam's hand is pulled above water, his arm has turned 180 degrees.

* Continuity: The ring on Argorn's forefinger moves from the left to the right forefinger several times during the movie.

* Audio/visual unsynchronized: As Gandalf and Bilbo smoke "the finest weed of the Southfarthing" Bilbo blows out a ring of smoke that Gandalf watches, after that we see Bilbo's mouth saying something, but there's no audio.

* Continuity: In the palantir scene between Gandalf and Saruman, Saruman says that the eye of Sauron sees past all, including flesh. In that shot a ring can be seen on Gandalf's finger (one of the three elvish rings). Then Saruman says, "You know of what I speak Gandalf," and in the very next shot, the ring is gone.

* Audio/visual unsynchronized: When Frodo meets Bilbo in Rivendell and hugs him, you can hear Bilbo say "Ohh!" in delight of seeing Frodo again; however his mouth doesn't move.

* Revealing mistakes: When Frodo falls and rolls down the snowy slope of the mountain (when they approach the pass), the line where his prosthetic hobbit feet ends on his lower legs, is clearly visible.

* Miscellaneous: When Frodo leaves the fellowship to continue on his own to Mordor, there's a tear running down his right cheek. When we next see him, the tear is on his left cheek and there is no evidence of it being on the right side.

* Revealing mistakes: When the fellowship is running into Moria escaping from the Watcher, the prosthetic masks of the hobbits' size doubles are easily seen.

* Revealing mistakes: Near the end of the movie when Sam has sunk below the water when he's chasing Frodo, there is a supposed shot of Sam under water, but if you look closely, you can see that the bubbles are placed later, there is no distortion of light from the waves, and his hair and cape are being moved as though by wind, showing that he was on strings above a fan on a green screen.

* Revealing mistakes: During the battle with the Uruk-Hai, at least three of them can be heard to deflate as they collapse, something that should have been edited out but was left.

* Revealing mistakes: When Arwen first meets Strider she mentions that only 5 of the wraiths are behind them. When Arwen is being chased by them at an hour and 10 minutes and 55 seconds into the DVD there is a clear shot of the riders chasing them set in a v formation. There are clearly eight wraiths chasing them. Even if the other four showed up there should be nine.

* Continuity: When Boromir is fighting the Uruk Hai the first arrow is shown as piercing his left shoulder. A second arrow is then shot at him and shown to strike in exactly the same position. The camera then shows a wider angle shot where he has one in his shoulder and one in his gut. This is on the Australian DVD version.

* Revealing mistakes: When Legolas spots the crebain birds from Dunland and warns the fellowship to take cover, his eyes are brown. Yet as an elf and the rest of the movie his eyes are blue.

* Continuity: At the end of the movie, when Aragorn decides that he, Legolas and Gimli will go to save Merry and Pippin, Legolas's arrows are first yellow, then green, then yellow again.

* Continuity: In the Extended Edition, when Gandalf begins to speak in the language of Mordor, a long shot of Elrond is seen, at which point he puts his hand on his forehead. In the close-up immediately afterwards, his hand is down and he again puts it to his head.

* Revealing mistakes: After the Ring Wraiths break down the entrance to the village (the scene after Aragorn talks to Frodo and the others at the prancing pony), one ring-wraith turns toward a light and you can see the mask which hides their face but allows them to see out (like the Halloween masks). A ring-wraith is supposed to have no physical form other than when they are being looked at with the ring.

* Errors made by characters (possibly deliberate errors by the filmmakers): In a scene after the fight with the Uruk Hai, corpses are laid on the floor. A Uruk Hai quickly lies down into the "play dead" position just as Boromir enters the scene, and he is clearly seen sitting up just as the scene comes onto screen.

* Revealing mistakes: In Lothlorien, when Boromir and Aragorn are sitting and talking about Minas Tirith, the wind is blowing their hair, yet the leaves in the background remain still.

* Errors made by characters (possibly deliberate errors by the filmmakers): When Frodo is looking out at Rivendell from the balcony, we see his hands on the rail. The rail only comes up to his waist, and he can comfortably rest his hands on it. However, Rivendell is an Elven city, so the rail should be above his head.

* Continuity: When the first Uruk is "born" and he kills the Orc standing next to him, he is muddy and his arms are not on his chest. In the next shot of him standing up, the mud is gone and replaced with slime and his arms are crossed on his chest.

* Crew or equipment visible: When the fellowship is departing from Lothlorien, Galadriel is seen riding in the swan boat across the river. If you look into the background to the left of the screen, a crew member can be seen crouching down and looking about.

* Miscellaneous: When Aragorn and Legolas are talking, after the Fellowship has stopped before the Falls of Rauros on the River Anduin, the river can be seen flowing from right to left in the back ground. They are on the West bank of a river flowing from North to South and dropping over a large waterfall: the water should flow from left to right.

[Miss Cassandra]

* Continuity: Several shots after Legolas, Gimli and Aragorn encounter Eomer and his men have been reversed (leaf-brooches are upside down, and Legolas' chest straps and quiver are on the wrong side).

* Continuity: When King Theoden is having his armor strapped on, his aide fastens the left shoulder strap, then we see the leg greaves being strapped on, and gloves being tied. In the next shot, the aide goes to fasten the left shoulder strap again, and there are no greaves on his legs or gloves on his hands.

* Continuity: At times the character Gimli is as tall as Aragorn's shoulders. At other times, he is much shorter. The same error can be seen in The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001) when Gandalf and Bilbo embrace.

* Continuity: The length of the chain in which Frodo carries the ring changes throughout the film

* Continuity: Near the end of the film, when Frodo and Sam are in Osgiliath, the chain around Frodo's neck with the ring on repeatedly switches between being caught around one of his buttons and hanging freely between shots.

* Continuity: When Gandalf the White first enters Theoden's hall, the position of his staff changes from being held perpendicular to the ground to being held parallel between shots. Director Peter Jackson noticed this error for the first time while recording the Director's Commentary for the Extended Edition of the DVD.

* Continuity: (flipped shot) When Legolas says in Elvish, "There's something out there," the Elvish Broaches (leaf broaches holding their cloaks together) are facing the opposite direction. Peter Jackson first noticed this error while recording the Extended DVD Director commentary.

* Continuity: When Gandalf, Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli are entering Theoden's throne room for the first time, Gandalf turns quickly around when the doors close but in the next shot his head is centered.

* Continuity: Aragorn's sword disappears from his hand shortly before he falls off his horse, but reappears in its scabbard later.

* Continuity: When Treebeard is talking to Merry and Pippin at the Entmoot, the stars that can be seen behind him change.

* Continuity: The gash on Merry's face changes sides throughout the movie. Sometimes it is on his left brow, sometimes on the right.

* Audio/visual unsynchronized: When Saruman is talking to the Uruk-Hai, they are obviously screaming and yelling, but there is no noise coming from them.

* Continuity: Gandalf's horse "Shadowfax" is obviously played by at least two different horses in the movie, as different markings can be seen on the horses.

* Continuity: Aragorn's beard repeatedly changes length between shots in King Theoden's hall.

* Continuity: Merry and Pippin switch position between shots when Merry is making his speech to Treebeard at the Entmoot.

* Continuity: When Frodo, Sam, and Gollum are in the Dead Marsh and the Nazgul flies over, Frodo goes after the ring with his left hand, which Sam grabs and holds. Frodo is then shown putting his right hand to his chest, but in the wide shot, his right hand is still lying at his side.

* Continuity: In the storeroom where Sam is suggesting that Frodo use the Ring to escape, Frodo is initially sitting in front of a barrel. When Faramir arrives, Frodo and Sam are sitting on a cloak and there are no barrels in sight.

* Continuity: When Gimli enters Helm's Deep for the first time, he speaks to Eowyn about Aragorn's fate. Before she speaks, Gimli's helmet is on and his axe is covered in blood. After she speaks, his helmet is off and his axe is clean.

* Continuity: In the battle at Helms Deep, when Aragorn unsheathes his sword, the shot is reversed (he draws it left-handed when he is right-handed).

* Continuity: When Legolas is pulling Gimli and Aragorn to safety using the rope during the battle of Helm's Deep, Gimli is on Aragorn's right side for every shot except the first close-up of Aragorn in Gimli, where he is clearly on Aragorn's left.

* Continuity: When Legolas shoots the rope of one of the big ladders, the previous shot has already shown the ladder to be past straight vertical position. The ladder should continue it's arc towards the wall, but instead it falls back.

* Continuity: When the main characters are standing on the cliff looking out towards Mordor, you can see Helm's Deep over their shoulders. The hole in the wall from the gunpowder is conspicuous by its absence.

* Crew or equipment visible: A small gas pipe, leading to one of the large torches outside the Golden Hall, is briefly visible in some scenes in Edoras.

* Revealing mistakes: When Shadowfax first appears, there are tracks across the paddock behind and to the right of him. Some say these are tire tracks, others argue that they could just as easily be the wheel ruts of a farm cart. In response, the first group say that the ruts are too far apart to be from a farm cart, and the space in between is too narrow, meaning that they are definitely those of a car or truck. You decide.

* Continuity: Legolas' eyes are brown for the majority of the battle of Helm's Deep, instead of their customary blue. However, it is reported that this particular color change came about when Orlando Bloom's blue contact lenses were forgotten during some of the shooting for this sequence.

* Revealing mistakes: In the beginning of the movie, when Frodo and Sam are walking on the rocky mountain their rubber artificial feet can be clearly seen flapping around.

* Continuity: When Faramir is holding Sam and Frodo in Osgiliath, and is about to let them go, the shot of the Hobbits is reversed (leaf brooches face the wrong way).

* Audio/visual unsynchronized: In the initial shot when Theoden is talking to Gamling on the wall outside Helm's Deep, Gamling's mouth is moving like he's replying to Theoden's orders but no sound is heard.

* Audio/visual unsynchronized: When the Rohirrim surround Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli at the beginning, you can see Éomer's lips moving in one of the wider shots and he obviously talks to the three but there is no sound coming out of his mouth.

* Continuity: When the Rohirrim surround Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli and Éomer starts talking to them, the sunlight changes direction and intensity.

* Continuity: The Uruk-Hai camp right on the edge of Fangorn Forest when they are slaughtered by the Rohirrim. The next morning, when the Rohirrim surround Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli and they talk about having "left none alive" and they look to where they stacked and burned the dead bodies, there is no forest in sight around the burning bodies.

* Continuity: When the Roherrim attack the Uruk Hai outside of Fangorn Forest, Merry and Pippin are bound at the wrists. Pippin is almost trampled by a horse and, when he turns, you can see his hands are clearly free. They later cut the cords with a knife.

* Continuity: When Merry and Pippin are dropped to the ground by the Uruk-Hai, Merry is lying very close to Pippin. In the next shot Pippin is obviously a few feet away for he has to crawl closer to Merry to be able to talk to him

* Continuity: When the Merry and Pippin are first seen being carried by the Uruk Hai, they are behind each other. In the next shot they are being carried beside each other.

* Continuity: After the Rohirrim surrounding Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli are about to leave, you can just make out Eomer's sword falling out of its sheath. It can be seen in the next shot.

* Continuity: The position of Legolas' quiver changes from one side to the other and then back again in Fangorn forest.

* Continuity: When Aragorn is tracking the hobbits beside Fangorn forest, his ring is on his right hand. Later, when the "White Wizard" is approaching the ring has switched to his left hand.

* Continuity: Pippin's hands are tied, but when he falls under the horse, his hands are untied and apart. When Aragorn is working out what happened we see, in the flashbacks, that Pippin did not cut his bonds until after the horse incident.

* Miscellaneous: When Éomer mounts his horse after talking with Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli his sword fall out of its scabbard (look over Aragorn's right shoulder).

* Incorrectly regarded as goofs: During Arwen's vision of Aragorn's (eventual) death, Aragorn's fingers do not move on his sword as many, many people have suggested - they are Arwen's fingers.

* Continuity: When Sam is telling Frodo to use the ring to escape Faramir, the light changes directions (from the left in the wide shot, from the right in the close-up).

* Continuity: In the "dream sequence" where Aragorn remembers his time with Arwen prior to embarking on the quest to destroy the ring they embrace and kiss. As they do so, Aragorn's left hand is alternately on her face/around her waist between shots.

* Continuity: (flipped shot) When Aragorn is tracking Merry and Pippin from the orc pyre to Fangorn Forest, his ring (usually on his left hand) is on his right forefinger and his glove (usually on his right) is on his left hand.

* Revealing mistakes: As Théoden, Aragorn and the others ride out of Hornborg at the end of the battle, when they ride down the "bridge", one of the computer generated Orcs, on the side of the bridge that is closest to the camera, goes straight through one of the horses before he is thrown from the bridge. Also (and conversely), horsemen in the back of the column slash with their swords at invisible targets.

* Continuity: In Helms Deep, as Legolas throws the shield onto the stairs, he has his bow in his left hand. As he runs to jump onto the shield, the bow is gone. As he is sliding down the stairs, he is using the bow again.

* Continuity: When Frodo and Sam are hidden under the elvish cloak at the Black Gate, we can see from under the cape the feet of the enemy soldier through a gap in between the cloth and the floor. But in the next shoot when Frodo unfold the cape (that looks like a rock) we can see it was well buried in the dust and there is no possible gap.

* Continuity: When Legolas has to hand over his weapons, he takes the knives from his back. When Aragorn hands over his own sword, we see Legolas taking off his knives again in the background.

* Continuity: When Legolas is waiting on the wall for the Urak Hai battle to begin at Helms Deep his hands repeatedly change position on his bow between shots.

* Continuity: When Aragorn is lying on the river's shore, he forces himself onto an unsaddled horse. But, when he sees the Orc Army and starts to gallop towards Helms Deep, he is riding with a saddle.

* Continuity: When Gandalf and Theoden are talking outside town, near the burial mounds covered in white flowers, all the shots of Gandalf show the wind whipping his hair around, but in all the shots of Theoden there is not even a hint of a breeze in his hair.

* Continuity: When Frodo is sliding down the hill outside the Black Gate he has a pack on his back but when he covers Sam with his cloak the pack is gone

* Continuity: When Pippin climbs Treebeard, he has several smudges of blood on his face. These have disappeared seconds later, when Treebeard is holding both Pippin and Merry.

* Continuity: Just after Sam says "How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened?" we cut to a shot of Aragorn which is a reversed shot - the scar on his lip is on the wrong side.

* Continuity: When Theoden the king grasps his sword, Gandalf's grey coat is not on the floor at the wide shot.

* Revealing mistakes: As women and children enter Helm's Deep's caves, a rock stalactite swings back and forth after an extra touches it.

* Continuity: When the three ladders are raised on the Keep in the Helms Deep sequence, the wide and close-in shots alternate between the outer two ladders being about 30 feet apart and less than 5 feet apart, respectively (the third is in between them and never makes it up).

* Revealing mistakes: Very near the beginning of the Extended version, some of the real fog in a valley visible at a distance behind Frodo and Sam abruptly disappears. While some close-ups were filmed in studio, it is also possible that there was a delay in filming these "on location" shots.

* Continuity: After Legolas shoots two arrows into the shoulder region of the Uruk-Hai running with the torch, the arrows are nowhere to be seen in the shot that shows the runner diving into drain on the side of the wall of Helms Deep.

* Continuity: When Aragorn, Gimli, Legolas, and Gandalf enter Edoras, they surrender their weapons. When Gimli pins Wormtongue to the floor, his axe blade can be seen next to his head.

* Continuity: When Theodred is buried, Gandalf's hair is grey and sticking out to the side, in the next shot it is Gandalf's usual color of long flowing white.

* Factual errors: In the cast list for the Extended Edition, 'John Noble' 's name is misspelled, "Nogle".

* Revealing mistakes: At Helm's deep, several elves draw and shoot their bows (complete with sound effects) but no arrows are seen.

* Revealing mistakes: In the shot where Aragorn orders the men of Rohan to fire their arrows (just after the elves do from the wall at Helms Deep) his sword's blade disappears as it comes toward the camera.

* Continuity: When everyone is traveling to Helm's Deep, Gimli is riding on a horse. The head of his axe changes positions (blade down, blade up) several times when his is talking to people.

* Continuity: The orcs use axes to chop the trees into smaller logs, but, when the logs are thrown on the fire, the ends are smooth, as if cut with a saw.

* Continuity: Gamling's cloak is alternately over his shoulder and behind his back between shots as he is being instructed by Aragorn.

* Continuity: When Saruman tells the Orc to send out the Warg riders, his staff is in his right hand. In the next shot it's in his left hand.

* Audio/visual unsynchronized: When Saruman tells the Orc to send out the Warg riders, a couple of seconds later the Orc's lips are moving in a reply, but no sound is heard.

* Crew or equipment visible: Immediately after Legolas slides down the steps on the shield, a rain-sprinkler can be seen at the top of the frame during his close-up.

* Continuity: When Gandalf and crew march into Theoden's house, Legolas is gripping Gandalf's arm when seen from the front, but not when seen from behind (and it looks as though Gandalf was expecting him to be gripping it, with his arm cocked).

* Continuity: When Aragorn first comes to Helm's Deep, the cut on his shoulder disappears during the sequence when Theoden tells Gimli that he can defend his own keep.

* Continuity: When the orcs are carrying Merry and Pippin on their backs the wide shots show the orc carrying Pippin to be closer to the camera with the orc carrying Merry to his left. But in the close-ups they have swapped places with Pippin having to turn to his right to speak to Merry.

* Continuity: At Osgiliath. Frodo is seen walking toward the wall and clearly has no sword. When he stands on the wall and is about to be snatched by the Ring Wraith, Sam grabs him and they tumble down the stairs. Frodo pulls a sword and puts it to Sam's throat despite the fact that he had no sword and had been in Faramir's custody and would not have been left armed anyway.

* Factual errors: When Frodo and Faramir are watching Gollum in the pool from Henneth Annun, they see the full moon setting. However, a full moon sets at dawn, whereas the scene is set in the middle of the night.

* Errors made by characters (possibly deliberate errors by the filmmakers): Just as Ugluk and the troop of Uruk-Hai stop and Uruk asks, "What is it? What do you smell?" one of the Uruk-Hai fails to notice a bump in the terrain and goes sprawling to the floor.

* Revealing mistakes: At the end of the film when Gollum is crawling through the woods talking to himself, his hands and feet disappear into the ground.

* Continuity: Sam is using his stew pot to cook rabbit stew in Ithilien when the Gondorian rangers find the hobbits, at which time they place them under capture, seemingly leaving the stew pot behind, but Sam has it attached to his pack later when he, Frodo and Gollum are leaving Osgiliath.

* Continuity: When Gamling and Hama ride ahead of the Rohan civilians to scout, and Hama's horse starts to get nervous and Gamling asks what's wrong, Hama is on the right and Gamling is on the left. Then in the next shot they switch places. And when the warg jumps at Hama they switch places again.

* Continuity: When Pippin crawls toward Merry to talk to him, Merry is laying on his back. In the next shot, only one second later, he is laying on his side.

* Revealing mistakes: At the very end of the movie, when Gandalf, Theoden, and rest of the main characters who survived the battle of Helm's Deep ride over the hill together, and Gandalf says "The battle for Helm's Deep is over. The battle for Middle-Earth is about to begin.", the actor portraying Eomer is clearly not Karl Urban. This shot was done during pickups when Karl Urban was not available, but WETA was supposed to cover up the actor's face with Karl Urban's.

* Revealing mistakes: This was changed on the DVD, but on the original version of the movie, during the battle of Helms Deep the orks launched ropes with hooks on them at the top of the wall. They started to hoist the big ladders with the ropes. Two scenes later they pushed the ladders the rest of the way to the wall but the ropes were not there.

* Anachronisms: During several close-ups of Gandalf, like the scene in Théodan's hall, you can clearly see he's wearing contact lenses.

* Revealing mistakes: During the second close-up of Legolas's eyes in Fangorn Forest, you can see that he is wearing contact lenses.

* Revealing mistakes: When the Uruks are first introduced in the movie, we see all of them standing in one place for a split second and then they begin to run.

* Revealing mistakes: When the Ents are destroying Isengard, there is a shot of Saruman that runs in reverse as he looks down from the top of the tower. One can tell from the motion of his hair and beard.

* Continuity: When the Uruk-hai are carrying Merry and Pippin on their backs, you can clearly see them, then, on the high shot of the Uruk-hai running, there is no Merry or Pippin on their backs.

* Revealing mistakes: When Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli and Theoden ride out in the helms deep battle, the back row of Rohirrim soldiers are swinging their swords at nothing.

* Continuity: When Pippin is trying to escape from the attack of Eomer to the Urukais, he is crawling with both hands tied, but when he crashes with the horse and has almost been squashed, both hands are released. When Aragorn is figuring out how the Hobbits escape from the attack, the scene is replayed again with Pippin without a rope. After he avoids the horse, we see again Pippin crawling with both hands tied.

* Continuity: While everyone was amazed by Legolas' skill in firing three arrows in quick succession whilst sliding down the stairs on an Uruk-shield, you can clearly see that each shot is cut when he is about half way down the stairs, i.e. he only had time to fire one arrow.

* Continuity: When Legolos is about to slide on the shield, his bow disappears when it shows the shot of his legs, yet in the next shot his bow is in his hand

* Continuity: When Eowyn is traveling to Helm's Deep, her hair hangs loose around her face. About the time she arrives at Helm's Deep, it is suddenly pulled back on each side.

* Continuity: When Aragorn, Gimli, Legolas, and Gandalf first enter Theodens hall, Legolas is supporting Gandalf with his arm. When the door is shut behind them he lets go and in the next shot their arms are together again.

* Revealing mistakes: During the scene where Arwen is looking upon Aragorn's dead body as it lies on the marble slab, you can see a finger on his left hand (holding the sword) move back and forth.

* Factual errors: When the gate to Mordor is opened, it is clearly seen to be as thick as the wall, and each corner is seen to be a right angle. There is no space at all in between the gate and the wall when it is closed, later on in the same scene. However, the gate opens on a curve, and so would get stuck every time it opened or closed, unless the wall was somehow retracted. We do not see the wall retracted at all, thus it is physically impossible for such a gate to exist.

* Crew or equipment visible: When the Rohirrim are searching for the body of Théodred at the fords of Isen, Éomer rolls over the body of a Rohan soldier. Next to him you can clearly see a piece of yellow and black striped tape (in the bottom left corner), possibly a marker.

* Continuity: During the battle of Helms Deep, when Legolas starts fighting with his knives you can clearly see there are no arrows left in his quiver. Later in the battle he's shooting arrows from his bow again.

* Revealing mistakes: When the son of King Theoden is carried to his forefathers graves his heavy scale mail armor is caught in the wind; a heavy looking item supposedly made from steel plates with tough leather on the backside, but none the less it flaps in the wind.

* Continuity: During the scenes of the capture of Gollum there is a breeze blowing Sam and Frodo's curly hair and surrounding grass clumps. Gollum's long stringy hair hangs straight and unmoving.

* Factual errors: During the battle with the Warg riders, a Warg and Orc fall across Gimli. Visibly struggling to lift them off, there is no change in effort or position when a second Warg puts it's weight on Gimli. This should be an addition of several hundred pounds.

[Miss Cassandra]

* Continuity: In the scene of Theoden's death, a black line appears and disappears between shots on the right side of Eowyn's forehead, over her eyebrow.

* Revealing mistakes: Near the beginning of the film as the camera flies towards Rohan you can see the smoke pouring back into the chimneys rather than out of them.

* Continuity: When Sam and Frodo are climbing Mt. Doom, Sam's sword switches from his left side to his right. Later when Sam draws his sword, it is back on his left side.

* Plot holes: At the Black Gates, although we see all the main characters on horseback to start with, when the battle actually starts *all* the horses have disappeared.

* Continuity: When Sam is holding Frodo on his lap during the climb up Mt. Doom, the wound on Frodo's face has moved from his right cheek to his left. The footage for the entire scene has been flipped.

* Continuity: The position of Smeagol's hands around Deagol's throat changes noticeably between cuts.

* Continuity: Orlando Bloom's eyes are brown, but as Legolas, his eyes are changed to blue using CGI. In close-up outside the Black Gates, his eyes are CGI blue, but in a shot immediately following with Gandalf in the foreground and Legolas in the near background, his eyes are clearly brown.

* Continuity: When Frodo and Sam are bewildered as the orc army marches out from the fortress by the bottom of the secret stair, they are lit from the bridge's direction by red and orange fiery colors. In the reverse shots of the bridge and the fortress, there is no orange light in the shot at all, only the ghostly green lighting.

* Continuity: When the orc and the Uruk-Hai fight over the mithril shirt in the tower, there is a short shot where the normally long-haired orc is bald.

* Continuity: When Gandalf and Pippin are in Minas Tirith, and Gandalf is outside he starts coughing on his pipe smoke. On this wide shot, Pippin is tucked into bed. Then, in the next shot, he is up standing by his bed looking at his new Gondorian armor. He then gets Gandalf some water from the pitcher.

* Audio/visual unsynchronized: Prior to Faramir's ride to re-capture Osgiliath, Gandalf challenges him. There is one shot where Faramir comments on the "Men of Gondor" there are a number of words before this phrase but his lips do not appear to moving.

* Continuity: In the "Voice of Saruman Scene", Treebeard starts and ends the scene in front of Orthanc's door. Throughout the scene, Treebeard is nowhere to be seen.

* Continuity: Elrond's hair changes from being neatly tucked behind his ears to free flowing and back behind his ears again between shots as Arwen convinces him to re-forge the shards of Narsil.

* Continuity: The amount of mud along with the ring in Deagol's hand lessens considerably with each shot of him looking at the ring, until the mud is completely gone by the time he is attacked by Smeagol.

* Continuity: The two doors of the Black Gate continue to open as Aragorn and the others ride away from the approaching Orc army. When Aragorn rides as he shouts, "Sons of Gondor, of Rohan, my brothers... when the age of men comes crashing down," at the top of the screen the "closed gate" is visible.

* Continuity: After Frodo wakes up in Minas Tirith, Merry and Pippin stand in the doorway. Their height reaches the middle of the ornate door carving in the close-up, but in their next wide shot running in, they are considerably lower. When Legolas and Aragorn walk in, also in a close-up, their height is just a bit higher on the carving than the two Hobbits' heights were. Then when Sam stands in the doorway his height also reaches the center of the carving.

* Continuity: Sam rolls down Shelob's back, then he grabs Sting and takes a stance against Shelob. In the next wide shot, Sam stands ready and Shelob positions herself at the stairway. Frodo's wrapped body is not lying anywhere to be seen.

* Continuity: At the end, when the four Hobbits are entering Grey Havens, Sam is wearing a yellow vest with brown buttons over a white shirt. When Frodo makes his way onto the ship and turns back to smile at his friends, Sam is no longer wearing the yellow vest. The vest is still not there when the three Hobbits turn to leave the Grey Havens. When Sam is holding his daughter, he is once again wearing the yellow vest. On the Extended Edition DVD they explain this mistake.

* Continuity: When at the Black Gate, the army of men are surrounded by Orcs, then after Aragorn's "For Frodo" line, they charge across the screen from left to right. When they are running, in a shot where Gandalf is seen on the very right of the screen, you can see through some gaps and there are no Orcs, just an open field.

* Continuity: After Gorbag says, "You touch it, and I'll stick this blade in your gut", Shagrat and Gorbag start to fight. A few shots later there's a close-up of Gorbag being bald - he's not wearing his hairpiece/wig in this shot-as he's being pushed towards the right of the screen by Shagrat, just before falling into the hole! (On the Extended Edition DVD Director/Writer commentary, writer Philippa Boyens actually admits that his wig falls off!)

* Continuity: When Aragorn first meets the Army of the Dead, he is holding a torch in his left hand and a sword in his right hand. When he turns around to look at the rest of the undead, his torch and sword have switched hands. He then turns around again and the torch and sword are back where they originally were.

* Crew or equipment visible: After Pippin draws his sword, the next shot is of Orcs running to the right of the screen. As that shot opens, click five or six frames in and two crewmembers are seen between the Orcs on the right of the screen, click a few more times and more crew members are visible in the middle, between the Orcs.

* Continuity: When Gollum drops the lembas from the bridge, you see the leaves it was wrapped in falling away, and the wafers fall generally straight down. However, when Sam finds it later, the lembas is still mostly wrapped in the leaves, with only a few morsels broken off and laying around unwrapped.

* Continuity: After Gollum says, "Clever Hobbits, to climb so high!", he jumps onto Frodo and Sam. Gollum then attacks Frodo and when he turns Frodo onto his back, Frodo's shirt is wide open at his neck/chest and the chain and Ring are gone. In the next close-up as Gollum chokes Frodo, and the following shots, the chain with the Ring is back.

* Continuity: Before the charge of the Rohirrim, we see that Merry and Eowyn are near the middle of the group, but when we see Merry during the charge, look behind him. There are about five horsemen, behind whom are just empty fields.

* Continuity: When Theoden "reforms the line" as the Mumakil approach, there are empty fields behind the horses. In the overhead shot of them charging, it is seen that there are still orcs in the background who should have been there in the previous shot.

* Audio/visual unsynchronized: When Elrond comes to give the newly re-forged Narsil to Aragorn, a gust of wind suddenly blows up, knocking over a suit of armor in the background. The armor makes no noise as it crashes however.

* Continuity: When Aragorn meets the army of the dead, the elf leaf that hold his cape together changes. First its pointing left, then right again etc.

* Continuity: When Sam believes Frodo to be dead after his battle with Shelob, Frodo's eyes are open/closed/open between shots.

* Revealing mistakes: In Shelob's Lair, when Samwise pulls the web from "dead" Frodo's face, Frodo blinks. However, Frodo is paralyzed with his eyes open.

* Continuity: Nearing the end of the film where we see Frodo, Sam, Pippin and Merry having a drink at the Green Dragon, Frodo places four mugs on the table. The first sequence has two green mugs on the right and two brown mugs on the left. The second shot shows the mugs with a brown and green mug on each side of the table. Frodo puts the other brown mug in front of Merry, but in the next shot the other brown mug is in front of Pippin.

* Continuity: When Sam and Frodo are climbing Mt. Doom, Sam's sword switches from his left side to his right.

* Continuity: When Sam cuts Shelob's silk from around Frodo's face, it is completely cleared of silk in the close-up shots but remains covered with silk from the nose down in the long shots.

* Continuity: When Frodo and Sam are on the rock at the foot of the exploding Mount Doom, there is a shot of Frodo's left hand where the hand is completely clean and the finger is still there.

* Revealing mistakes: In a quick shot of Gandalf holding Pippin while riding Shadowfax in front of the Black Gate you can see Billy Boyd's double's face.

* Continuity: When Aragorn is running back to join his fellow men, when the black gate is open, we can see the CGI flag of the rider that goes with him is going from left to right, but in the next shot, the wind is in the opposite direction.

* Continuity: During the fight with Shelob, Sam is holding Frodo's sword which switches between Sam's right and left hand in between shots at least once.

* Continuity: When Arwen is reading the book after she sees the vision, there is a picture on the right-hand page. When she drops the book there is no picture there.

* Continuity: When Aragorn's party rides to the Black Gate, Eomer is shown as riding with them (he can be identified by the white plume on his helmet). When they reach the gate, Eomer is missing from most of the wide shots, although he's shown in at least one close-up.

* Continuity: When Frodo finishes writing the book, he reaches for the stab wound on his shoulder with the writing quill in hand. Then Sam walks in and in the next shot, Frodo's hand is still by his shoulder, but the quill is gone.

* Continuity: While Denethor is eating in the citadel hall and is asking Pippin if he knows how to sing, he has a smear of red wine/sauce/blood on his chin. In a subsequent shot, Denethor turns to the camera and the smear is gone. It then reappears as he looks back to Pippin.

* Continuity: When Gandalf is speaking with "the steward" the end of his cloak alternates between clean and mud soaked.

* Continuity: After the battle at Minas Tirith the clasp holding Pippin's cape together changes direction between shots.

* Continuity: When Pippin finds Merry after the battle his leaf-brooch is pointing to the left, in the following shot is pointing to the right.

* Continuity: When Gandalf and Pippin are talking during the battle at Minias Tirith, Gandalf's sword has orc blood on it. Then the camera switches to Pippin and when it returns to Gandalf, his sword has no blood.

* Continuity: The elf standing behind Elrond, Galadriel and Celeborn at the Grey Havens changes position several times between shots.

* Continuity: When the Army of the Dead enters Minas Tirith, one of the battlements on the city's outer wall (near the bottom of the frame) changes its shape and position, losing a portion of its tower.

* Continuity: Gollum sprinkles crumbs of the Lembas bread on Sam to incriminate him. When Sam gets up, the crumbs are gone. Then, they reappear when Gollum points them out.

* Continuity: When Pippin takes the seeing stone from Gandalf's sleeping arms, he replaces it with a pitcher. This pitcher is absent when Gandalf wakes up.

* Revealing mistakes: The aerial shot of Edoras (between the scene where Merry and Pippin are reunited with Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli and Gandalf, and the scene where they do their drinking song on the table) is being shown backwards, as can be seen by watching the flow of the flag cloth in the wind.

* Continuity: When Frodo flips Gollum/Smeagol over the cliff his back and shoulders are free of spider webs. But when he falls and has the vision, the spider webs are back.

* Continuity: When Merry and Pippin are dancing on the table at Rohan you can see Gandalf from behind bouncing up and down on his feet but when you see the front of him he is nodding his head and clapping.

* Continuity: When Eowyn is fighting the Witch King, the strap holding her helmet is buckled, however, when she pulls off her helmet, there is no strap on it at all.

* Continuity: When Eowyn pulls off her helmet to kill the Witch King her hair is fairly neat. In the next shot as she is crawling away and calling for Merry, her hair is very messy. Then when she is leaning over Theoden, her hair is neat again.

* Revealing mistakes: After Frodo tells him to go home and he starts crying, the next close-up of Sam shows where his real and fake ear meet-right above the curl of hair.

* Revealing mistakes: When Frodo is running through the stone gate at the Mount of Doom, you can see the surface beneath his feet is sliding away, so it looks like he is "floating" just above the ground.

* Continuity: When Pippin saves Gandalf from being stabbed during the Minas Tirith battle Gandalfs hands change position when he is talking to Pippin.

* Continuity: One shot where the army of the dead reveal themselves in the cavern is flipped: As he turns to regard them appearing, Aragorn's leaf clasp is backwards and the torch and sword have changed hands.

* Revealing mistakes: When Aragorn speaks to Legolas and Gimli before they enter the Path of the Death, you can see a green shimmer in the back showing the King of the Death, exactly in this moment a knight of rohan crosses between Aragorn and the entrance, but the shimmer which is supposed to be several yards behind him appears "over" him.

* Continuity: In the Voice of Saruman, after Saruman has fallen onto the spiked wheel it begins to turn, causing the Palantir to fall from his robe. When it is shown splashing into the water, the wheel is not turning, but continues to turn after the Pelantir has landed on the ground.

* Continuity: In the Voice of Saruman, when Pippin jumps from the horse and picks up the Palantir, the debris in the water changes position every time the scene changes.

* Factual errors: When Legolas jumps on the back of the elephant, he goes to cut the rope to release the people. However, there are about three thick rows of ropes going through the back of the elephant. Legolas only cuts one. The other ones were already cut.

* Continuity: When Pippin is recovering from looking into the Palantir, the shots alternate between Gandalf and Pippin. In the shots of Pippin, you can see Gandalf's hand holding the side of Pippin's face. In the shots of Gandalf, the hand is no longer there.

* Continuity: In the Extended Edition, the Evenstar falls and shatters as Aragorn challenges the Palantir. In the battle at the Morannon, the top of the jewel can be seen tucked under his leather shirt.

* Continuity: At the end of the movie when the four hobbits are at the Green Dragon and Sam works up the nerve to approach Rosie, Frodo has all 10 of his fingers. Gollum had bitten off the finger Frodo placed the One Ring on at Mount Doom.

* Continuity: During the scene in the Paths of the Dead (and on the Extended DVD, The Corsairs of Umbar), Legolas is not wearing his blue contacts. His eyes are brown throughout.

* Continuity: When Gandalf and Pippin conclude their meeting with Denethor and leave, the bottom of Gandalf's robe clearly has been soaked in dirty water. Then the next shot of his robe from behind shows it to be clean.

* Continuity: Through the course of the movie, Frodo's face is very dirty. When unconscious in the spider web, it has become totally clean. But once he is freed of the spider web, it is dirty again.

* Continuity: The sword that killed Sauron was broken into four distinct pieces - two big, two small. Yet the blacksmith who repairs the sword only takes the two larger pieces, and forges them together - and the sword is complete. Since the blacksmith didn't use all four pieces, the sword should not appear completed.

* Continuity: In the extended edition when the Mouth of Sauron is decapitated, his body and his horse have both disappeared when the gates open and Sauron's army comes forth.

* Continuity: When Frodo is writing in the book, and stops because of the pain from his wound, he has only had enough time to write a couple of words. However, when Sam looks at it, the whole title is there.

* Continuity: In the Coronation scene, when Aragorn bows to the four hobbits, in the close shot they are closely surrounded by a crowd of people. In the wide shot the hobbits are all along on a dais.

* Continuity: In the extended edition of ROTK, during Boromir's victory speech at Osgiliath, his horn is clearly seen being carried over his clothing from the back view. However from the front, the horn is seen under his cloak.

* Continuity: Toward the very end of the film, as Frodo finishes writing, he presses his hand to his chest. His quill is clearly visible between his fingers, and yet when the scene is cut to a slightly different angle, the quill disappears.


# Continuity: SPOILER: After Eowyn decapitates the Witch King's fellbeast, the severed head disappears.

# Revealing mistakes: SPOILER: While Eowyn delivers the decapitating blow to the Witch King's Fell Beast, the path of her sword swing does not come close to matching the location of the eventual sword strike on the beast's neck.

# Continuity: SPOILER: When Eowyn kills the Witch King, her arm is hurt and she keeps holding it close to her body. But when she stands up after Merry stabs him she uses her hurt arm to push herself up.

# Continuity: SPOILER: When Sam stabs Shelob in the eye with Sting, the blade is covered with blood, but when it is knocked out of his hand in the next shot, it's perfectly clean.

# Continuity: SPOILER: After defeating Shelob, Sam runs to Frodo. He lays Sting down next to him, on an area of dirt with a couple rocks sticking up. But later, when we see Sting glow blue, it's on perfectly level dirt ground.

# Continuity: SPOILER: When Sam deals the killing blow to Shelob, he is shown pulling Sting from her belly two times, first at the end of one view, then again about a second into a different view.

# Factual errors: SPOILER: Frodo's wearing the mithril shirt when Shelob stings him in the right upper chest, an area that the shirt covers. The sting should not have been able to go through.

# Plot holes: SPOILER: Frodo, Sam, and Gollum are captured by Faramir and are to be taken to Gondor. When the Nazgul attack them in Osgilith and Sam tackles Frodo to prevent him from putting on the Ring, Frodo draw his sword and almost kills Sam. As prisoners, Frodo and Sam's weapons would have been taken from them.

# Continuity: SPOILER: When Pippin realizes that Denethor intends to burn Faramir alive, he leaves Denethor, who is preparing the pyre, and runs to find Gandalf in a scene that is apparently set in the pitch darkness of night. When he finds Gandalf, however, it is very clearly daylight (a long of shot of Minas Tirith shows the slant of early-afternoon or late-morning sunlight). Logically this would mean that it took Pippin about nine hours to find Gandalf, yet when they race back to the tombs Denethor hasn't even lit the pyre yet!

# Factual errors: SPOILER: When Denethor catches fire, he is in the Hallows of Minas Tirith, on the sixth of seven levels of the city (according to the books). However, he dies not by immolation but by plummeting off the prow of the city, meaning that he ran, fully engulfed in flames, "...about a mile..." (as Peter Jackson later revealed in the audio commentary). Now THAT'S determination!

[Snowdog]

You mean there were movies?
Oh yeah... back in '03. I forgot about them.

*Reads books*

[paul]

The movies if they had held to the text would have been way too long and way to complex to be good film. What was done really in style & spirit in tune with the books. I really liked both the books and thhe filmd

[Thehoundsofdeath]

Originally Posted by paul

The movies if they had held to the text would have been way too long and way to complex to be good film. What was done really in style & spirit in tune with the books. I really liked both the books and thhe filmd

This is the eternal defence of the film apologists, that the book is too long to be turned into a good film.

This conveniently blurs two basic issues.

LOTR is too long to be rendered into film form without substantial summarizing and editing, and no one has ever pretended otherwise.

However, this is NOT the problem with the films, and the criticism of the films has not focused on that point. The fact of the matter is that the worst elements of the film are those which have been ADDED.

There is an entire films worth of non-Tolkien material added to the movie triology. This time could have been used to much better effect showing parts of the original story which Jackson did not have time for. Who would you rather read, Tolkien or some film hack? Tolkien? Yeah, so why would you want to watch what the film hack writes? It is like watching some retarded 14-year old write Middle-earth fanfiction.

As for "style & spirit", sorry you just haven't read the books properly if you think the vulgar diminishing of character of Merry & Pippin, Gimli, Elrond and so on (and on, and on...) into base stereotypes, have anything to do with the books.

[Gordis]

What can I say - short and to the point Great first post.

Welcome to Entmoot, Thehoundsofdeath!

[barrelrider110]

Originally Posted by Thehoundsofdeath

The fact of the matter is that the worst elements of the film are those which have been ADDED.

Yes, like the Orc-spawning.

Ditto Gordis, welcome to entmoot, THOD.

[Jon S.]

barrelrider, dig your sig line.

If it were mine, though, I'd have it say:

"I am the friend of Bears and the guest of Eagles. I am NOT the Washington Redskins."

[barrelrider110]

LOL Jon.

But I AM the New York Giants!

[Nautipus]

Originally Posted by Thehoundsofdeath

However, this is NOT the problem with the films, and the criticism of the films has not focused on that point. The fact of the matter is that the worst elements of the film are those which have been ADDED.

Totally agree with you on every point you made, especially this one. I beleive the author should be respected enough for the film-maker not to assert his own ideas, unless time or cost is an issue, or story comprehension.

Welcome to the 'Moot, THOD.

[Snowdog]

Now we get to see what he is going to do with The Hobbit....

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Okay but seriously, in making the movie he didn't actually ruin the book in any way. Tolkien's works are completely unharmed, so where's the harm right?

He did ruin a lot. OK, there are lots of people who would buy and read the books after seeing the movies - but how many would not? How many will think they KNOW Tolkien because they have only seen the movies? We meet such again and again on all the forums - they are a plague.

And I have to pity even those who have read the books after the movies - because they would always see twisted Denethor's face, twisted Elrond's face, stupid Frodo's bulging blue eyes - instead of images Tolkien wished to convey. That is the power of ready images - unfortunately.

Originally Posted by Olmer

Oh, for goodness sake! Give him a credit. Without his brave undertaking of this heavy load, you, people, probably would be living until your gray hair on futile hopes that someday someone will make the book alive.

Brave? - the guy simply wished to make money and gain fame! How many knew about PJ before the LOTR movies? And tell me, please, HOW MANY of you would go watch the movies if they were NOT presented as an adaptation of Tolkien? I wouldn't go for sure - as I will never go watch other movies made by PJ. The movies were a success because of Tolkien's name , not Peter Jackson's.

Owing everything to Tolkien, PJ should have had some decency in treating his work - but he has ruined everything! There is hardly a character that was not twisted: Denethor, Elrond, Arwen, Gimli, Faramir being the most glaring examples. How did you like the noble King Aragorn killing the Mouth during a parley? - It is wrong on SO many levels, just don't get me started.

PJ claimed he had to omit a lot of original material (Tom, Crickhollow, the Scouring etc. ) because there was not enough time. OK with me - sound explanation. But then why in Ungoliant did he use the precious remaining time to show his own stupid additions: Arwen being bound to the ring (), then going to Havens, then returning, Aragorn musing : to be or not to be ... King, Aragorn falling from the cliff and kissing a horse, Faramir taking Frodo to Osgoliath, Frodo sending Sam away etc. PJ did find time for his own stuff - and had the gall to say he had IMPROVED the story!

[Ingwe]

No doubt, I went into theatres expecting something at least similar to the books. Those examples are definitely the glaring ones Gordis. Another thing I noticed was in Return of the King - when Frodo (himself) was going to Cirith Ungol and behind him you could see Minas Tirith as if it were only 15 miles away at the most. And Barad-Dur just a few miles behind the Black Gate...I don't think so.

But I still want to see how they will make the Hobbit come to life in theatres. I'll also enjoy hearing everyone say "wow, I loved the special effects" and "when did this take place, in the middle ages" and all kinds of other funny anecdotes that are likely to follow after the movie comes out. All I can say is, please don't replace characters with CGI.

[Curubethion]

Originally Posted by Gordis

He did ruin a lot. OK, there are lots of people who would buy and read the books after seeing the movies - but how many would not? How many will think they KNOW Tolkien because they have only seen the movies? We meet such again and again on all the forums - they are a plague.

Then again...none of those people knew Tolkien before the movies, anyway. Unless you're suggesting that it's worse for them to have a flawed image than it is for them to have no image at all.

And I have to pity even those who have read the books after the movies - because they would always see twisted Denethor's face, twisted Elrond's face, stupid Frodo's bulging blue eyes - instead of images Tolkien wished to convey. That is the power of ready images - unfortunately.

*shrug*

Those adjectives are rather strong...I didn't see anything twisted about Elrond's face. That's mainly personal opinion.

Brave? - the guy simply wished to make money and gain fame! How many knew about PJ before the LOTR movies? And tell me, please, HOW MANY of you would go watch the movies if they were NOT presented as an adaptation of Tolkien? I wouldn't go for sure - as I will never go watch other movies made by PJ. The movies were a success because of Tolkien's name , not Peter Jackson's.

Can you back up your claims about PJ's motives? Just because he gained fame and money doesn't mean that it was his prime motivation.

And he was still brave to take on this film, especially seeing all of the flaming that goes on about his name. He'll be even braver to produce The Hobbit, knowing for sure that there's going to be negative backlash from purists.

Owing everything to Tolkien, PJ should have had some decency in treating his work - but he has ruined everything! There is hardly a character that was not twisted: Denethor, Elrond, Arwen, Gimli, Faramir being the most glaring examples. How did you like the noble King Aragorn killing the Mouth during a parley? - It is wrong on SO many levels, just don't get me started.

To be honest, I liked some of the character adaptations. He had to condense some characterizations and tweak others to make it fit the format of a movie, don't fault him for that. Some characters would have just not worked on the big screen as they were written.

And the Aragorn scene was rather an anomaly, I didn't like it, although to be fair, that was only in the Extended Edition.

PJ claimed he had to omit a lot of original material (Tom, Crickhollow, the Scouring etc. ) because there was not enough time. OK with me - sound explanation. But then why in Ungoliant did he use the precious remaining time to show his own stupid additions: Arwen being bound to the ring (), then going to Havens, then returning, Aragorn musing : to be or not to be ... King, Aragorn falling from the cliff and kissing a horse, Faramir taking Frodo to Osgoliath, Frodo sending Sam away etc. PJ did find time for his own stuff - and had the gall to say he had IMPROVED the story!

The thing is, going with the idea that certain parts can be "left out" for time constraints is actually an incorrect way of looking at moviemaking. In reality, that leads to piecemeal movies, which are just bad to being with. Movies must have fluidity.

So it's not a matter of taking scenes from the books and translating them to the movies, it's a matter of retelling the story of the books on the big screen.

Think of PJ's movies as an alternate history of the War of the Ring.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Curubethion

Unless you're suggesting that it's worse for them to have a flawed image than it is for them to have no image at all.

Tolkien seemed to think so himself - he didn't want a flawed image, much less a twisted one. Just look at what he wrote about Zimmerman's script in his letters.

Those adjectives are rather strong...I didn't see anything twisted about Elrond's face. That's mainly personal opinion.

My strictly personal opinion is that Hugo Weaving would have been much more convincing in a role of a neurotic drug-addict. Is it the way the fair and wise and "kind as summer" son of Earendil should look and behave?

Can you back up your claims about PJ's motives? Just because he gained fame and money doesn't mean that it was his prime motivation.

Are you suggesting he took the job because of respectful love for the works of the late Professor?

And he was still brave to take on this film, especially seeing all of the flaming that goes on about his name. He'll be even braver to produce The Hobbit, knowing for sure that there's going to be negative backlash from purists.

I think you overestimate the importance of Tolkien forums in the overall response to the movies. PJ doesn't care a strawbit about the purists opinion.

Some characters would have just not worked on the big screen as they were written.

Yea - and now it works perfectly: first we have Arwen the Warrior-babe, then Arwen a withering flower, and at the end this disgusting public kiss. Great characterization - and how consistent!

And how the constantly whimpering tearful Frodo is better than the original brave hobbit?

Movies must have fluidity.

Where is this fluidity? It is now 50 percent fighting, intermingled with some cheesy talk.

So it's not a matter of taking scenes from the books and translating them to the movies, it's a matter of retelling the story of the books on the big screen.
Think of PJ's movies as an alternate history of the War of the Ring.

That is called "fanfic", not adaptation. And many fanfics written by Tolkien fans are WAY better. PJ's was a bad one.