What All Was Wrong with PJ's LOTR

[mithrand1r]

Originally Posted by Olmer

American suburbs???
Does New Zeland look like the american suburbs?!!
Besides the movie has been made by a new zelander, who lives and works THERE, not in the Hollywood. Thank God for it, because I am shuddering as imagining a Hollywood version. Ralph Bakshi's is more than enough.

While I think that Bakshi had several problems with his adaptation of LOTR to screen, in some respects, I think he was closer to the spirit of the books than PJ et al. (Especially for the part of the movie upto when the hobbits arrive in Rivendell)

Overall, I enjoyed PJ&companies version of LOTR, but I think it could have been better. (especially considering the amount of resources that PJ had available for making the films.)

One thing I will definitively say about PJ et al. Their version of LOTR does not look like any US suburbs. (IMHO )

(Peter I just say your comment. I am not sure about the impression of the movie not seeming like it was from Hollywood. It is difficult for me to tell where a movie is from, although this film did have the appearance (to me) of a big budget production.)

[Peter_20]

I don't really mean it looks like Hollywood (XD), but it tends to feel like a typical Hollywood movie.

[Kevin McIntyre]

Originally Posted by Peter_20

I don't really mean it looks like Hollywood (XD), but it tends to feel like a typical Hollywood movie.

3+ hours per is not a typical Hollywood movie. Is it that we miss what was cut/never filmed or discouraged by what was changed?

[Wayfarer]

For the record, I wasn't a fan... well, I didn't actually like much of anything about the trilogy after half-way through the first, and come to think of it never bothered with the last one.

Anyway. I think Elijah Wood was pretty much spot on, physically if not in acting talent. Gandalf describes Frodo by mentioning his eyes as a striking feature, and Mr. Woods certainly pulls that off to a 'T.'

But yeah... what was wrong. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say 'the directing.'

[Peter_20]

Originally Posted by Kevin McIntyre

3+ hours per is not a typical Hollywood movie. Is it that we miss what was cut/never filmed or discouraged by what was changed?

I wasn't talking about the length, but about the atmosphere.

[Mark of Cenla]

I really loved the movies. Since I am a high school teacher and am off for two months, I pick a day in June and watch all three movies in one day.

My biggest problem with the flicks is the leaving out of the "Scouring of the Shire". To me that is one of the main points of the books: that the hobbits had to deal with evil by themselves, and did it quite well. The other plot changes are OK with me. Peace.

[me9996]

Yeah, the scouring of the shire showed that all hobbits were strong and if they chose to could go out and do great things.

But they don't want to, they just wanna stay around home and farm.

[Meriadoc Brandybuck]

Originally Posted by Wally

My list of complaints include the dumb Arwen dream sequences, the 'dramatic' loss of Aragorn over the cliff during the fight en route to Helm's Deep, the aforementioned Elves, the numerous pointless changes to Tolkien's work (such as Frodo correctly guessing the password into Moria instead of Pippin [or was it Merry?]), and the omission of incredibly important plot points from these works (such as Denethor's use of the palantir). I am no PJ fanboy and do not hesitate to take him to task for these sins. For $300MM and 2 years of shooting, these films should have been perfect. Does anyone else have an opinion here?

Merry guessed the password. It's little things that they changed that bugged me. That, and Arwen, Helm's Deep, and the non-existence of the Scouring of the Shire. I still like all three movies, though and have watched them countless (literally) times.

[The Gaffer]

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

Anyway. I think Elijah Wood was pretty much spot on, physically if not in acting talent. Gandalf describes Frodo by mentioning his eyes as a striking feature, and Mr. Woods certainly pulls that off to a 'T.'

That was my first reaction. He looks like he's got "an elvish air" about him.

However, as the trilogy went on, his performance (or the direction of his performance) got worse and worse. It was like he already knew the ending or something. I don't think Frodo's character was at all well portrayed.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

The book also gives you the feeling that he knows the end, sometimes.

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

The book also gives you the feeling that he knows the end, sometimes.

Yes, totally, I agree. Throughout the book, Frodo's got this sort of air of dutiful, weighted, but martyr-like resignation about him, which I thought was appropriate given his circumstances and that damn Ring and all, he knew it wasn't going to be days of wine and roses and that he'd get the short end of the stick at the end of the day. (heh - ws that enough cliche sayings in one sentence, or what? ) And in the films, I thought Wood played that off quite well; maybe it got old nearer to the end because, let's face it, surely the whole ordeal was getting old for Frodo, too, and harder to plod through, and so forth.

Originally Posted by Mark of Cenla

My biggest problem with the flicks is the leaving out of the "Scouring of the Shire". To me that is one of the main points of the books: that the hobbits had to deal with evil by themselves, and did it quite well. The other plot changes are OK with me.

I pretty much feel exactly the same way, here. The Scouring would have been so, so awesome to have seen all those guys play, especially after the 9 hours of the series. It would have been such a satisfying way to wrap it up, better I think than all that crying and hugging at the Grey Havens.

I love the films - but one's got to bear in mind that they are an artist's (the director's) interpretation of the story, based on the books, not meant to be an exact play-by-play duplication of the books. Anyway, I love the books and the films. Both. In different ways, for different reasons, I suppose...

Originally Posted by Gaffer

That was my first reaction. He looks like he's got "an elvish air" about him.

You know, I think he might actually be some sort of elvish hobbit faerie-child or something, for real. He hardly looks pure human. But I love it, it's sort of like Bjork - she looks elvish-faerie too, doesn't she? Some people make me stop & wonder, "Hmmmm... well, maybe... maybe..."

[Miss Cassandra]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

You know, I think he might actually be some sort of elvish hobbit faerie-child or something, for real. He hardly looks pure human. But I love it, it's sort of like Bjork - she looks elvish-faerie too, doesn't she? Some people make me stop & wonder, "Hmmmm... well, maybe... maybe..."

Yes, I agree with that. A little out of this world, like there is something inside them that we will never understand. Strange that you mention Bjork, I have thought that for the longest. These people are all over, I see them from time to time too, and I think even they will never know what lies within....

There is definately some truth in them
Truth of the unknown maybe.

[Peter_20]

Yes, Björk would actually fit kinda well as an Elf.
She has that Elvish, mysterious air about her, and she also has the characteristic Elven beauty.

I mean, take a look:

http://www.poster.net/bjoerk/bjoerk-...rk-6200693.jpg

[caboose007]

hmmm... ok.... no I don't see it.

There are certain people who are amazingly beautiful about but I've never felt that there's something else about them. It's the genetic lottery and some people just happen to hit the jack pot. But Elves to me would have to have the mind and essence of an Elf. You know the whole "I'm really old and can do things you can't". Like old chinese martial artists who can still back flip at the age of 120 and not break a hip or run up a wall.

Anyway I think what was wrong with the films are that they didn't capture the essence of the books. It felt too try hard. The books were like an old story that plays out well as myth or legend of a certain culture (if only we had some more like it!) and the films seemed more like an attempt at making a big war of Greece against Troy but with some CG monsters in.

I mean what happened to the Wargs???? They were supposed to be quite smart and one runs of a cliff for crying out loud! They hunted the Hobbits and Co after rivendell and were supposed to be big wolves. I dunno what wolves Weta have seen but thats no wolf. A mutated bear more like but no wolf.

The trolls I thought were a good concept. Some great big lumbering half minded beast giants that were used for heavy duty war fare. But in the Hobbit the Trolls had names and could talk. Shouldn't this have carried on in the LoTR films? The cave troll in Moria for example... how could he talk? With the fact it was too stupid to even find Frodo immediately behind the pillar I'm guessing it barely remembers to breathe. The trolls should have been like an ent but corrupted. This is another reason for the atmosphere of the films failing miserably.

[Wayfarer]

Originally Posted by Peter_20

Yes, Björk would actually fit kinda well as an Elf.
She has that Elvish, mysterious air about her, and she also has the characteristic Elven beauty.

I mean, take a look:

http://www.poster.net/bjoerk/bjoerk-...rk-6200693.jpg

She looks... elvish I'll give you that.

But not Tolkien-elvish. Like the wicked fey in some old tale who'll steal you away and turn you into something for her amusement. Look at her - she's wearing a swan for a dress. How creepy is that?

But yes, caboose007 hits it right on the head. Lord of the Rings is mythic, and intentionally so. And Jackson falls prey to the spectacle of making a mythic movie and tries to embellish where no embellishment is necessary. Thus you have the ridiculous drawn-out fight scenes, the addition of a hackneyed 'romantic subplot' and the extensive use of slow-motion cheese takes. And so forth.

[Miss Cassandra]

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

She looks... elvish I'll give you that.

But not Tolkien-elvish. Like the wicked fey in some old tale who'll steal you away and turn you into something for her amusement. Look at her - she's wearing a swan for a dress. How creepy is that?

She does look a little wicked. People say to me all the time that I look like an evil elven witch,... maybe I am a little wicked too. Really, I do get that all the time, from just random people.

'You look, strangely familiar... do I know you from somewhere?'
'You look strangley exotic... where are you from?'
'Are you that one girl,... no, nevermind'
Or just the plain 'Youre weird'

Swan dresses are cool

[The Gaffer]

Originally Posted by Miss Cassandra

Swan dresses are cool

Maybe that is connected to the remarks you get...

Actually no, those sound like chat-up lines to me.

[Miss Cassandra]

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

Actually no, those sound like chat-up lines to me.

Maybe you should see how I look. Im a very interesting specimen. my whole town is convinced that I am a witch and I scare all the little children...

People say im creepy. And not of this world.
But I like it that way...

[Peter_20]

I saw a bunch of girls my age walking around in white linen the other day, and they could have been mistaken for elves if they actually were beautiful.
But they weren't.
They laughed a lot, but it didn't sound enchanting at all, and they weren't pretty or anything either.

I actually found it pretty frustrating: they DID resemble elves at first, but then their total lack of beauty really annoyed me.
They seemed somewhat cocky, as well.

[Meriadoc Brandybuck]

*cough* Slightly off topic. *cough*