Bombadil...theories? The Ring had no effect on him!

ringbearer · 08-13-2001, 10:31 PM

Not enough said about him in LOTR as far as I'm concernd. Elrond called him "Eldest" or something like that. Is he a Maiar?Valor in disguise? Exiled from Valinor? Not of this (Middle)Earth?
Any theories?

***Ben*** · 08-13-2001, 10:36 PM

Well we've had this discussion before, but it's been awhile so why not do it again

.

I believe Tom is a Maia, or maybe Iluvatar himself.

ringbearer · 08-13-2001, 10:45 PM

I've thought about Iluvatar as well...interesting! Like he's retired or something and just "observing". Has no more cares...so he just cares about his realm. However, at the Council of Elrond, Gandalf or Elrond said that in the end Sauron would even overcome his borders, or something like that. If He was Iluvatar, his powers were limited or diminished.

Darth Tater · 08-13-2001, 10:46 PM

OH DEAR! Not this again! Time to find a rock to hide under, or better yet a Balrog with wings

ringbearer · 08-13-2001, 10:48 PM

Sorry, new to this forum. I guess I should have searched!

***Ben*** · 08-13-2001, 10:59 PM

Not a problem. I just searched and the last discussion on this seems to have been in April 2000... back in the first age...

Mouth of Sauron · 08-14-2001, 12:48 AM

I like the theory that he is Aule best. But at one time I did think he could be Iluvatar. My only problem with that theory is, who was Goldberry? If Bombadil was Aule, then Goldberry makes sense as Yavana, but if he's Iluvatar...?

Still, when Frodo asks who he is, her reply does sound more befitting of Iluvatar than a mere Maia.

***Fat middle*** · 08-14-2001, 04:24 AM

i think that ever and ever this topic comes back i'm of a different opinion about it

now i think that Tombo is a character from other world. Tolkien speaks of him in a letter (long before he began to write LOTR) as "the spirit of the countryside of Oxford and Berkshire". At least that was what Tombo represented in "The Adventures..."

When he began to write LOTR, JRRT hasn't yet a clear idea of what the book was about. He needed some adventures... so he introduced Tom.

But how to make consistent a character of a so different origin with the rest of the book? He could have write and rewrite pages to create a genesis and a history of the character and his role in the history of ME, but he simply chose an easier (and more effective) way: he created an aura of mystery surrounding Tom so we couldn't know who he really was but feeling that the wise (as Gandalf, Elrond & co.) did know it.

I think that this solution save a lot of work for the Proffersor and bring us to this point of discussing once and again this topic without casting any shadow of imperfection over the book. Simply genius

Shanamir Duntak · 08-14-2001, 09:59 AM

I think Tom has to be an exceptionnal beeing created by Illuvatar. Think of it as a first draft. The thing you do once, think " Hum... that's not bad, I'll keep this one but do these changes for the next..."

Think of a world where Tom would be an elf and where elves would all be little Toms...

Ñólendil · 08-14-2001, 01:51 PM

Definitely not God, bmilder. Tolkien denied that (a 1952 letter). There's a discussion on this I took part in on the Middle-earth Vault (I'm Ranadwelt). Er, keep in mind some of the posters are, well, of an older crowd: This is going to get messy

***Fat middle*** · 08-14-2001, 02:18 PM

and nobody replied... great work, Inoldonil!

Ñólendil · 08-14-2001, 03:58 PM

That's always my goal of course: to be so boring and make a post so pointless the thread (or topic) dies. My favourite thing.

Curandir · 08-14-2001, 09:55 PM

I've always thought of Tom as a "shepard of shepards". He is not really an Ent in the classical sence, but his dominion is definately nature. He doesn't intentionally become involved in the lives of, Hobbits, Men, Elves, or even Dwarves. What he does though is take care of the environment, knows every tree, bush and even some ragtag shrubbery. His magic is stronger then the ring and even Sauron because the magic he uses is older, it is part of "the Song". One thing I've noticed is the power of music, in particular spoken music or singing. I've noticed that dark magic is always a perversion, or a copy, of the oridgeonal part of the song. Remember in Sil when Melkor went bad and the disharmonies of the Song? Or what Orcs were suppost to be? They may prove powerful for a time, but the perfection of the Song and thouse who operate in that perfection always come out on top. Tom I would say is the "head custodian" of Arda, a remnant of Iluvatars' oridgeonal note in the Song.

Or I maybe just full of ****.

Curandir · 08-14-2001, 10:00 PM

Hey, I didn't know the C-word would get censored!

ringbearer · 08-14-2001, 10:34 PM

Thats it! Tom and Goldberry are Father and Mother Nature!

***Ben*** · 08-14-2001, 10:44 PM

Congratulations, you've inspired the latest Tolkien Trail Poll

.

ringbearer · 08-14-2001, 11:01 PM

I don't think he could have been a Maia. Bilbo was invisible to Gandalf, and Gandalf is a Maia. Frodo was visible to Tom...so through logic that one can be ruled out. Wow, I inspired my 1st poll! Let us know the results! I've cast my vote for Iluvatar!

Curandir · 08-14-2001, 11:05 PM

I thought you were with me on this one Ringbearer

ringbearer · 08-14-2001, 11:11 PM

Father and Mother Nature were not listed on the poll! I do not pick things like "something else alltogether". I, frankly, don't know...just like talking about it!

Curandir · 08-14-2001, 11:15 PM

Tom Bombadil is one of my favorite caracters. I wanted to buy the Adventures of Tom Bombadil but after my order came into Barnes and Noble, I was flat broke! Can anyone recommend that book, or give a synopsis of what its about?

08-13-2001, 10:31 PM	#1
ringbearer Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: St. Louis, Mo. USA Posts: 561	Bombadil...theories? The Ring had no effect on him! Not enough said about him in LOTR as far as I'm concernd. Elrond called him "Eldest" or something like that. Is he a Maiar?Valor in disguise? Exiled from Valinor? Not of this (Middle)Earth? Any theories? __________________ Ringbearer Hide Witch, hide! The Good Folks come to burn thee! Their keen enjoyment hid behind A Gothic mask of duty!

08-13-2001, 10:36 PM	#2
*Ben* Retired Ent Join Date: Sep 1999 Posts: 60,631	Well we've had this discussion before, but it's been awhile so why not do it again . I believe Tom is a Maia, or maybe Iluvatar himself. __________________ ---Ben formerly known in the forums as bmilder Owner of The Tolkien Trail and Entmoot. Buy Entmoot shirts and mugs!

08-13-2001, 10:45 PM	#3
ringbearer Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: St. Louis, Mo. USA Posts: 561	I've thought about Iluvatar as well...interesting! Like he's retired or something and just "observing". Has no more cares...so he just cares about his realm. However, at the Council of Elrond, Gandalf or Elrond said that in the end Sauron would even overcome his borders, or something like that. If He was Iluvatar, his powers were limited or diminished. __________________ Ringbearer Hide Witch, hide! The Good Folks come to burn thee! Their keen enjoyment hid behind A Gothic mask of duty! Last edited by ringbearer : 08-13-2001 at 10:47 PM.

08-13-2001, 10:46 PM	#4
Darth Tater The man Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: MA Posts: 4,572	OH DEAR! Not this again! Time to find a rock to hide under, or better yet a Balrog with wings __________________ Visit the worlds greatest webpage! No, not The Tolkien Trail! Just click this! The Tolkien Trail ~Camelot

08-13-2001, 10:48 PM	#5
ringbearer Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: St. Louis, Mo. USA Posts: 561	Sorry, new to this forum. I guess I should have searched! __________________ Ringbearer Hide Witch, hide! The Good Folks come to burn thee! Their keen enjoyment hid behind A Gothic mask of duty!

08-13-2001, 10:59 PM	#6
*Ben* Retired Ent Join Date: Sep 1999 Posts: 60,631	Not a problem. I just searched and the last discussion on this seems to have been in April 2000... back in the first age... __________________ ---Ben formerly known in the forums as bmilder Owner of The Tolkien Trail and Entmoot. Buy Entmoot shirts and mugs!

08-14-2001, 12:48 AM	#7
Mouth of Sauron Sapling Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Lugburz Posts: 8	I like the theory that he is Aule best. But at one time I did think he could be Iluvatar. My only problem with that theory is, who was Goldberry? If Bombadil was Aule, then Goldberry makes sense as Yavana, but if he's Iluvatar...? Still, when Frodo asks who he is, her reply does sound more befitting of Iluvatar than a mere Maia. __________________ Foul things await you in the dungeons of Lugburz. The Black Gate opens soon!

08-14-2001, 04:24 AM	#8
*Fat middle* Mootis per forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Spain Posts: 61,439	i think that ever and ever this topic comes back i'm of a different opinion about it now i think that Tombo is a character from other world. Tolkien speaks of him in a letter (long before he began to write LOTR) as "the spirit of the countryside of Oxford and Berkshire". At least that was what Tombo represented in "The Adventures..." When he began to write LOTR, JRRT hasn't yet a clear idea of what the book was about. He needed some adventures... so he introduced Tom. But how to make consistent a character of a so different origin with the rest of the book? He could have write and rewrite pages to create a genesis and a history of the character and his role in the history of ME, but he simply chose an easier (and more effective) way: he created an aura of mystery surrounding Tom so we couldn't know who he really was but feeling that the wise (as Gandalf, Elrond & co.) did know it. I think that this solution save a lot of work for the Proffersor and bring us to this point of discussing once and again this topic without casting any shadow of imperfection over the book. Simply genius __________________ Do not be hasty. That is my motto. Now we'll have a drink and go to the Entmoot.

08-14-2001, 09:59 AM	#9
Shanamir Duntak Lord of Rain Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Québec city, Québec, Canada Posts: 1,141	I think Tom has to be an exceptionnal beeing created by Illuvatar. Think of it as a first draft. The thing you do once, think " Hum... that's not bad, I'll keep this one but do these changes for the next..." Think of a world where Tom would be an elf and where elves would all be little Toms... __________________ 'Faramir is both a captain of men and beasts'

08-14-2001, 01:51 PM	#10
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	What is Tom? Definitely not God, bmilder. Tolkien denied that (a 1952 letter). There's a discussion on this I took part in on the Middle-earth Vault (I'm Ranadwelt). Er, keep in mind some of the posters are, well, of an older crowd: This is going to get messy __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

08-14-2001, 02:18 PM	#11
*Fat middle* Mootis per forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Spain Posts: 61,439	and nobody replied... great work, Inoldonil! __________________ Do not be hasty. That is my motto. Now we'll have a drink and go to the Entmoot.

08-14-2001, 03:58 PM	#12
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	Thank you! That's always my goal of course: to be so boring and make a post so pointless the thread (or topic) dies. My favourite thing. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

08-14-2001, 09:55 PM	#13
Curandir Hobbit Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 28	I've always thought of Tom as a "shepard of shepards". He is not really an Ent in the classical sence, but his dominion is definately nature. He doesn't intentionally become involved in the lives of, Hobbits, Men, Elves, or even Dwarves. What he does though is take care of the environment, knows every tree, bush and even some ragtag shrubbery. His magic is stronger then the ring and even Sauron because the magic he uses is older, it is part of "the Song". One thing I've noticed is the power of music, in particular spoken music or singing. I've noticed that dark magic is always a perversion, or a copy, of the oridgeonal part of the song. Remember in Sil when Melkor went bad and the disharmonies of the Song? Or what Orcs were suppost to be? They may prove powerful for a time, but the perfection of the Song and thouse who operate in that perfection always come out on top. Tom I would say is the "head custodian" of Arda, a remnant of Iluvatars' oridgeonal note in the Song. Or I maybe just full of ****. __________________ ..."the powerful play goes on and we all may contribute a verse"

08-14-2001, 10:00 PM	#14
Curandir Hobbit Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 28	Hey, I didn't know the C-word would get censored! __________________ ..."the powerful play goes on and we all may contribute a verse"

08-14-2001, 10:34 PM	#15
ringbearer Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: St. Louis, Mo. USA Posts: 561	Thats it! Tom and Goldberry are Father and Mother Nature! __________________ Ringbearer Hide Witch, hide! The Good Folks come to burn thee! Their keen enjoyment hid behind A Gothic mask of duty!

08-14-2001, 10:44 PM	#16
*Ben* Retired Ent Join Date: Sep 1999 Posts: 60,631	Congratulations, you've inspired the latest Tolkien Trail Poll . __________________ ---Ben formerly known in the forums as bmilder Owner of The Tolkien Trail and Entmoot. Buy Entmoot shirts and mugs!

08-14-2001, 11:01 PM	#17
ringbearer Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: St. Louis, Mo. USA Posts: 561	I don't think he could have been a Maia. Bilbo was invisible to Gandalf, and Gandalf is a Maia. Frodo was visible to Tom...so through logic that one can be ruled out. Wow, I inspired my 1st poll! Let us know the results! I've cast my vote for Iluvatar! __________________ Ringbearer Hide Witch, hide! The Good Folks come to burn thee! Their keen enjoyment hid behind A Gothic mask of duty!

08-14-2001, 11:05 PM	#18
Curandir Hobbit Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 28	I thought you were with me on this one Ringbearer __________________ ..."the powerful play goes on and we all may contribute a verse"

08-14-2001, 11:11 PM	#19
ringbearer Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: St. Louis, Mo. USA Posts: 561	Father and Mother Nature were not listed on the poll! I do not pick things like "something else alltogether". I, frankly, don't know...just like talking about it! __________________ Ringbearer Hide Witch, hide! The Good Folks come to burn thee! Their keen enjoyment hid behind A Gothic mask of duty!

08-14-2001, 11:15 PM	#20
Curandir Hobbit Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 28	Tom Bombadil is one of my favorite caracters. I wanted to buy the Adventures of Tom Bombadil but after my order came into Barnes and Noble, I was flat broke! Can anyone recommend that book, or give a synopsis of what its about? __________________ ..."the powerful play goes on and we all may contribute a verse" Last edited by Curandir : 08-14-2001 at 11:16 PM.

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