"Necromancer" - Page 2

Dúnedain · 01-09-2004, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thorin II
Have you ever read the original version? I'm interested to know whether it was different in any other ways.

I haven't read it, I've only read the newer version, but I read what Tom Shippey, a tolkien biographer has said about it. I believe on one of the DVD's they interview him and he talks about it as well. I think it was on the TTT: EE DVD...

Thorin II · 01-14-2004, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dúnedain
I haven't read it, I've only read the newer version, but I read what Tom Shippey, a tolkien biographer has said about it. I believe on one of the DVD's they interview him and he talks about it as well. I think it was on the TTT: EE DVD...

I haven't gotten throught all of the EE periperhal stuff yet; I'll look for that interview. Thanks!

trolls' bane · 02-27-2004, 11:18 PM

I guess I need to reread the Hobbit. I don't remember Necromancer being mentioned in the Hobbit, but that's probably because I didn't know what it meant. I dod something foolish whan I read the books: I read 2 SW books in between The Hobbit and FotR, and TTT and RotK.

Findegil · 03-01-2004, 04:36 PM

If you read The History of the Lord of the Rings (a part of The History of Middle-Earth) you will find that Tolkien had already prepared an explanation for the behavior of Gollum as it was in the first edition of the hobbit. But this was difidult and he told this to his publisher with an only rashly writen emandation for the chapter riddles in the dark. Tolkien was completly buffeld when he found that emendation published in the second edition of The Hobbit and he had some pains to explain the diffrent story in the diffrent edition of the book.

Respectfully
Findegil

Ossë · 05-24-2004, 04:05 AM

Gandalf mentions in the hobbit that he himself went to the dungeons of Dul Guldor, thats where he got the key from i think (haven't read it for ages). And it was actually then that Gandalf finds out the true identity of the necromancer. And Gandalf being the guarded person he was, probably didn't want to tell the whole world straight away, and therefore still refered to the necromancer as the necromancer, when in fact he knew better. When one of the dwarves asked he what he was doing there, him said something alone the lines of "Never you mind, secret wizards business".

Bombadillo · 07-07-2004, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ossë
Gandalf mentions in the hobbit that he himself went to the dungeons of Dul Guldor, thats where he got the key from i think (haven't read it for ages). And it was actually then that Gandalf finds out the true identity of the necromancer. And Gandalf being the guarded person he was, probably didn't want to tell the whole world straight away, and therefore still refered to the necromancer as the necromancer, when in fact he knew better. When one of the dwarves asked he what he was doing there, him said something alone the lines of "Never you mind, secret wizards business".

The first half of that sounded like "The Council of Elrond." That's where I was going to direct you anyway. He explains in that chapter.

Haradrim · 08-18-2004, 09:42 AM

I was pretty sure he was mentioned as the necromancer at least once in LOTR I think at the council and I think in Shadows of the PAst.

Also Im pretty sure that Tolkien knew what he was doing when he mentioned the necromancer. I am sure he knew who he was. Maybe didn't know his name but knew what his role. ANd then when he decided to write LOTR he changed the chapter so he could make it a quest to destroy the ring instead of a quest to find the ring and then destroy it before Sauron finds it.

Radagast The Brown · 08-18-2004, 05:47 PM

You're right - the 'Necromancer' is mentioned, once, in the Council of Elrond.
I think I agree - it seemed planned, that Gandalf had to go that same year for another improtant issue - with the White Council to attack Sauron in Dol Guldur - and in the Hobbit, tht Gandalf disappears and appears again, not saying why.

I don't really understand what you mean, though, when you said that he changed the chapters.

Haradrim · 08-19-2004, 10:52 PM

Radagast, in the very first edition of the book the riddles in the dark is very different form what it is now. I don't know it said but apparently it wouldnt have fit with the Lord of the Rings. SO in the later editions TOlkien rewrote it so that it would fit with the story line of the LOTR saying that this was what really happened and he explained it by saying Gandalf forced Bilbo into telling the truth.

02-27-2004, 11:18 PM	#23
trolls' bane Entmoot Secretary of the Treasury Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Campsite-by-Giraffe Posts: 5,408	I guess I need to reread the Hobbit. I don't remember Necromancer being mentioned in the Hobbit, but that's probably because I didn't know what it meant. I dod something foolish whan I read the books: I read 2 SW books in between The Hobbit and FotR, and TTT and RotK. __________________ KI6PFA Amateur Radio Operator

05-24-2004, 04:05 AM	#25
Ossë Sapling Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 8	Gandalf mentions in the hobbit that he himself went to the dungeons of Dul Guldor, thats where he got the key from i think (haven't read it for ages). And it was actually then that Gandalf finds out the true identity of the necromancer. And Gandalf being the guarded person he was, probably didn't want to tell the whole world straight away, and therefore still refered to the necromancer as the necromancer, when in fact he knew better. When one of the dwarves asked he what he was doing there, him said something alone the lines of "Never you mind, secret wizards business". Last edited by Ossë : 05-24-2004 at 04:06 AM.

08-18-2004, 05:47 PM	#28
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	You're right - the 'Necromancer' is mentioned, once, in the Council of Elrond. I think I agree - it seemed planned, that Gandalf had to go that same year for another improtant issue - with the White Council to attack Sauron in Dol Guldur - and in the Hobbit, tht Gandalf disappears and appears again, not saying why. I don't really understand what you mean, though, when you said that he changed the chapters. __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

08-19-2004, 10:52 PM	#29
Haradrim The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Far Harad Posts: 1,006	Radagast, in the very first edition of the book the riddles in the dark is very different form what it is now. I don't know it said but apparently it wouldnt have fit with the Lord of the Rings. SO in the later editions TOlkien rewrote it so that it would fit with the story line of the LOTR saying that this was what really happened and he explained it by saying Gandalf forced Bilbo into telling the truth. __________________ A Bit More Grown Up This Time...

03-01-2004, 04:36 PM	#24
Findegil Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Geilenkirchen, Germany Posts: 192	If you read The History of the Lord of the Rings (a part of The History of Middle-Earth) you will find that Tolkien had already prepared an explanation for the behavior of Gollum as it was in the first edition of the hobbit. But this was difidult and he told this to his publisher with an only rashly writen emandation for the chapter riddles in the dark. Tolkien was completly buffeld when he found that emendation published in the second edition of The Hobbit and he had some pains to explain the diffrent story in the diffrent edition of the book. Respectfully Findegil

08-18-2004, 09:42 AM	#27
Haradrim The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Far Harad Posts: 1,006	I was pretty sure he was mentioned as the necromancer at least once in LOTR I think at the council and I think in Shadows of the PAst. Also Im pretty sure that Tolkien knew what he was doing when he mentioned the necromancer. I am sure he knew who he was. Maybe didn't know his name but knew what his role. ANd then when he decided to write LOTR he changed the chapter so he could make it a quest to destroy the ring instead of a quest to find the ring and then destroy it before Sauron finds it.