Foreshadowing in "The Hobbit"

[Nurvingiel]

What little hints have you discovered in "The Hobbit" that foreshadow future events in the book? Tolkien is very subtle, and I found these are usually discovered after a second or third reading.

What foreshadowing have you noticed that have implications on "The Lord of the Rings"?


To kick it all off, in chapter three "A Short Rest" (p. 43), I wondered how much the Elves really knew about Bilbo, and what this implies about his role in the Quest. (IIRC Gandalf says to Frodo in LOTR, "Bilbo was meant to find the Ring, so you were meant to have it, and that is an encouraging thought." [paraphrase] Anyone have that quote?)

When Gandalf, the Dwarves, and Bilbo first come to Rivendell, the Elves seem to know all about Bilbo even though they have never met.

The elves say shortly after:

"Mind Bilbo doesn't eat all the cakes!" they called. "He is too fat to get through key-holes yet!"

I think this foreshadows finding the entrance to Smaug's lair, as well has his escape from the Goblins. What do you think it implies (if anything) about Bilbo's finding the Ring; I feel it forshadows his escape from the Goblins, and the two events are intertwined.

What do you think about this, and what foreshadowing did you find in 'The Hobbit'?

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

I think that Thorin not wanting Bilbo to come and saying he was useless was foreshadowing the fact that it would be Bilbo that saves them many-a-time.

[Nurvingiel]

Yeah, good one Telcontar!

Gandalf was insistant that Bilbo would go on the Quest. How much do you think he knew about his role?

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Well in UT it says that he knew that with out Bilbo the quest would fail. he also said that his hobbit quietness would help as the dwarves were exetremly loud or in Bilbos words they made alot of;

Dwarvish racket

[Nurvingiel]

Yeah, Bilbo was really critical of their lack of stealth. They really did need him, even without the Ring.

[Durin1]

I don't know whether it constitutes "foreshadowing" but how about the bit about the Necromancer? Does it hint at a more sinister presence in ME?

And what about the brief (though tantalizing) summary about the Wood Elves and how they were the Elves who never went to Faery?

More pertinently, I feel, is possibly the growing numbers of Orcs and Wolves. After the War of the Dwarves and Orcs, there were very few Orcs left in the Misty Mountains. All of a sudden they begin to multipy and harass the Free Peoples again. (Maybe linked to the above bit about the Necromancer?)

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by Durin1

More pertinently, I feel, is possibly the growing numbers of Orcs and Wolves. After the War of the Dwarves and Orcs, there were very few Orcs left in the Misty Mountains. All of a sudden they begin to multipy and harass the Free Peoples again. (Maybe linked to the above bit about the Necromancer?)

That's perfect - it really does hint at future events in the book (Battle of Five Armies) and LOTR.

When I first read this book and LOTR for the first time, I thought that the Necromancer was someone other than Sauron.

[Durin1]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

When I first read this book and LOTR for the first time, I thought that the Necromancer was someone other than Sauron.

I read TH before I read LoTR. I have to say that, with hindsight, I was always intrugued by the word "Necromancer" (I was only about 9 or 10) as it sounded sinister and suggested evil. I don't know why, but I automatically presumed that the Necromancer was Sauron in LoTR. It just didn't occur to me that you could have two different spirits of evil residing in such close proximity (obviously the Nazgul's history is only touched upon).

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Originally Posted by Durin1

I read TH before I read LoTR. I have to say that, with hindsight, I was always intrugued by the word "Necromancer" (I was only about 9 or 10) as it sounded sinister and suggested evil. I don't know why, but I automatically presumed that the Necromancer was Sauron in LoTR. It just didn't occur to me that you could have two different spirits of evil residing in such close proximity (obviously the Nazgul's history is only touched upon).

This occured to me to even though I was younger than that.
Another foreshadowing although this is a Hobbit-LotR one. Where Bilbo overhears Gandalf and Elrond talking at the end of the Hobbit. I haven't read it in a while but it seemed to me like there would be more to come from the Necromancer.

[Nurvingiel]

Do you think that maybe Thorin's obsession with the treasure was foreshadowing his downfall? Or is it just easy to say that im hindsight?

At one point, Bilbo observes that they had left the very obvious problem of a live dragon out of their plans.

[Durin1]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Do you think that maybe Thorin's obsession with the treasure was foreshadowing his downfall? Or is it just easy to say that im hindsight?

At one point, Bilbo observes that they had left the very obvious problem of a live dragon out of their plans.

I think that because TH is written from the perspective of hobbits i.e. Bilbo, he has his own humourous slant on things. I feel pretty sure that the Dwarves would have given a different account of their "travels", including what they would (or could) do about the dragon. Of course this doesn't mean that they did have any plans!

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Another one I found recently

"Mind Bilbo doesn't eat all the cakes," thay called. "He is to fat get through key holes yet!"

Thoughts?