Was Bilbo really needed

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

And Gandalf himself suggested him.

[Haradrim]

I dont care if Eru himself reccomended Bilbo. I would never ever ever in a million years trust my life to a hobbit who I had only met for one day and who seeme d to be rather meek very excitable, and slightly off. it just dont make no sense no more.

[Elanor the Fair]

Gandalf did more than suggest that Bilbo accompany the dwarves, he insisted - to the point that he foretold disaster for the expedition if Thorin refused to take Bilbo and, additionally, refused to aid the dwarves. Thorin, however, did not take Bilbo without any guarantees - he insisted that Gandalf come along to look after Bilbo.

"Very well," Thorin said at last after a silence. "He shall set out with my company, if he dares (which I doubt). But if you insist on burdening me with him, you must come too and look after your darling."

[Haradrim]

Now I remember that line. My friend has my book so I have been working on memory for a while. But whatever. Thanks very muhc. Well now I guess the dwarves didnt really have a choice.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Anyway it was Thorins choice to have 14 members and not to stick with thirteen. In UT it says he asked for Gandalf's help in the Prancing POny when Gandalf was on the way to the Shire and Thorin was on his way to the Blu Mountains.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Haradrim

I dont care if Eru himself reccomended Bilbo. I would never ever ever in a million years trust my life to a hobbit who I had only met for one day and who seeme d to be rather meek very excitable, and slightly off. it just dont make no sense no more.

On the other hand, thirteen dwarves that want to go and tangle with a big mean (but stylish) dragon are slightly 'off' themselves, if you ask for my humble opinion. And if a wizard of renown and some power wants to help you on the right road and the only thing he asks is to take a Hobbit tag-along, then I would make my decision quickly enough, and the answer would be: Let him come. Even if he proved to be a nuissance on the road you could also tell the wizard, "I told you so".

[Haradrim]

That woudl eb interesting if one of the dwarves acytually said told you so to ndalf.

[elixir]

Well, Thorin was quite angry at Gandalf when he found out that Bilbo had given the Arkenstone to Bard and the Elven-king, and Gandalf showed his face there.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Originally Posted by elixir

Well, Thorin was quite angry at Gandalf when he found out that Bilbo had given the Arkenstone to Bard and the Elven-king, and Gandalf showed his face there.

Quite angry. Bit of an understatment, he went mad.

[Earniel]

Which could very well be the reason why Gandalf made sure he was on the other side of the wall than Thorin.

[Haradrim]

I can see it now. Gandalf with his hand against thorins head while thorin windmills his arms. AHHHHHHHHH!

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Yeah the dwarf hardiness beating that of a Maia!

[Haradrim]

No Gandalf would have wiped Thorins face in the floor easily but it would have been funny to see throin try. hehehehehehehehhheee.

[Nurvingiel]

Of course Bilbo was needed! I think Gandalf is very insightful into people's characters (maybe it's a Maia thing ), and he chose him for two reasons.

1. Gandalf saw an intelligent, brave, tough and resourceful hobbit under that excitable exterior. Bilbo proves to be all these fine qualities throughout the journey - when he tries to pick the troll's pocket, when he duels with Gollum at riddling and escapes the goblins, when he saves the Dwarves from spiders and elven dungeons, and especially when he starts taking charge of the adventure when they reach the Lonely Mountain. True, he was extremely lucky to find the Ring. But think of how he used it. He could have abandonned his friends and used it for evil, but instead he wisely didn't tell them about it (it's probably not a plan to tell dwarves about golden rings, and the less people that know you have something like that the better). He used it as a tool, in conjunction with his other skills, like hobbit stealth (instead of "all that dwarvish racket").
The dwarves would have failed in their quest without Bilbo's organization and leadership at Laketown and the Lonely Mountain. They would have lived a life of ease for too long in Laketown had Bilbo not urged them to go. He also did not, unlike the dwarves, leave a live dragon out of his calculations. True, he didn't have a plan either, but he discovered Smaug's weak point using the Ring, hobbit stealth, a great deal of mental toughness (to resist the dragon spell), bravery, and cleverness.

2. Gandalf hints in various places in LOTR and a bit in The Hobbit that there are forces of good greater then them at work. He seems to have some insight into what these forces are up to - perhaps he's referring to the Valar. My point with this is Bilbo's finding the Ring. Gandalf didn't predict specifically that he would find it, and only guessed that there was more to Bilbo's story of escaping from the goblins than he let on. However, it turned out that Bilbo was the ideal person to posses the One Ring at this time. I don't believe this was a mere coincidence. Gandalf must have at least known that Bilbo's presence on the quest would be needed for its success.

[inked]

Bilbo was needed, but no one, not even Gandalf knew the real need - that of finding the One Ring. This was destined by Eru, possibly through the agency of the Valar, but more likely directly by Eru. Note that in LOTR Gandalf's words to Frodo are his summation of all his research and reflection on the events as they had unfolded to that point: "Bilbo was meant to find the ring...and that is an encouraging thought."

I suspect that reading back through the lens of LOTR, we can see how Tolkein regularised the account and importance of Bilbo to the whole. In the Hobbit itself, however, Bilbo is the entire focus of the story which began, after all, as a scribble on the back of an examination paper "In a hole in the ground lived a hobbit".

So, if I may make bold, not even Tolkein knew the ultimate importance of the hobbit as (sub)Creator of Middle Earth, but the Creator did!

[Nurvingiel]

Well put Inked! I agree with you. I think Gandalf chose Bilbo for the reasons I suggested, and maybe a little prompting from Eru. (Maybe that's what gave Gandalf his insight in this case.)

[legolaslover543]

goodday ,i pesonally think billbo was needed because................................ froddo i belive was not even born yet(am i right, or am i right? ) please someone go look that up 'cause i doing this out of memory

[Beregond]

The hobbit was only written to allow the Lord of the rings to written, but I don't think he would have been much use if he had'nt found the ring.

[Blackheart]

Actually the hobbit was written before Tolkein had firmly conceptualized the LOTR.

In the original version Bilbo won the ring in a riddle game with gollum. But having already found it, he got gollum to show him the way out.

Tolkein later changed this when he decided that the ring was "the one". He did it pretty neatly, mind you, using the original story as bilbo's lie....

In any event, you can't really say that in the original story Bilbo had to be there to find the one ring, because he didn't find the one ring in the original story. It was a children's story in it's original conception.

The Hobbit was likely there sheerly for appeal. No not sex appeal...

Appeal as someone, who though not a child, still had a childlike viewpoint, and a sense of wonder. The fact that the story doesn't just appeal to children is evidence of how well Tolkein crafted...

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by legolaslover543

goodday ,i pesonally think billbo was needed because................................ froddo i belive was not even born yet(am i right, or am i right? ) please someone go look that up 'cause i doing this out of memory

Not much an argument IMO, why would Frodo have had an influence on whether Bilbo was needed on the quest to the Lonely Mountain?