REAL debate thread for RELIGION

[hectorberlioz]

Let me ask a question.
ok,Harry Potter is allowed to read in school, in fact it is recommended , J.k. Rowling is a wiccan.
Harry Potter is allowed in schools, but not the word GOD .
A lot of kids and people have converted to wicca because of little harry and the witch author.
Now why are they allowing witchcraft material in schools, but not bible reading or anything christian?

[hectorberlioz]

Also: People can watch, killing, cursing,sex and anything else on t.v and in movies. But a lot of people are trying to make it so that christianity cannot be shown on television.
I'd say we are losing our freedom of religion.

[Ruinel]

Dude, it's just a story. It doesn't promote witchcraft, because there's no such thing. FYI: the witches you see on Halloween, are just kids scammin' candy from their neighbors.

There are many books also allowed in school that are written by Christian authors (JRRT, for one). Even books that use Christianity in their stories (The Scarlet Letter is one example) are allowed as reading matterial in school. No one takes them off the shelf either.

If these Christian books can not convert Jews, Muslims, Budhists, Atheists, etc. to Christianity just by having Christianity as part of the story, then how are the Harry Potter stories converting students to Wicca? Is Wicca a more meaningful religion than Christianity to the students? Does Harry Potter announce that he is Wiccan in the stories? (I actually haven't read them.) How many students have actually converted to Wicca? I don't personnally know anyone that converted to Wicca after reading the Harry Potter books, and many of the people I know have read them.

If you are referring to pubic schools in the US, the word "god" is allowed in school. If you don't believe me, then walk down the hall and say the word "god".

Furthermore, there are usually Christian youth organizations of some type in the high schools. They are student run clubs, with teacher sponsors that meet before or after school, and even during lunch. Students can have a bible study during this time, prayer or whatever. It's just that the teachers can't teach their chosen religion (Christianity, Judeism, Islam, Budhism, etc.) to the students during instruction time.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by hectorberlioz
Also: People can watch, killing, cursing,sex and anything else on t.v and in movies. But a lot of people are trying to make it so that christianity cannot be shown on television.
I'd say we are losing our freedom of religion.

Who are these "people" who wnat to change the constitution? You are right, preventing a Christian television show from airing is preventing citizens from practicing their chosen religion. I am against that.

I know for a fact that cable television has many Christian channels that show Christian shows. Even Sunday morning on the local network is littered with Christian services being broadcast from various churches. If the viewer doesn't like the programming, they don't have to turn on that channel, IMO. Since the market is wide open, there are plenty of other channels to watch, especially with cable television. If the church wants to pay for the time, I say, "go for it". They're a business like any other, IMO. Their money is as good as anyone else's. And if the market does not favor these Christian shows, they will be canceled, just like any other unpopular television show. That's the way it is.

But the law is on the side of the Christians who have their own cable shows. So, don't fret, HectorBerlioz, you should be able to tune into something religious.

[Sween]

I think hat is it is very unwise to teach christinaity as a base relgion in the UK now. Aside from my belifs that all relgions are the root of all evil i dont think there is a place for it in school.

i liked relgious studies as a lesson it allowed for a pretty open assement of relgion. But at the same time its probably not a good idea not to hear about other relgions in a country until you reach 11 years old. Unless you watch blue peter you didnt have any idea when other relgious holidays where and even then you only had a basic understand of what they were!

At the end of each of our asembly we had to say the lord prayer which i allways refused to do and i think i was right to.

This country is so multi cultural now i think its wrong to go about pushing one relgion to the frount

[GrayMouser]

J K Rowling is NOT a Wiccan. She is a member of the Church of Scotland (Presbyterian); and attends church, in her own words, "more than weddings and funerals."

Try checking out facts before repeating internet myths.

[Ruinel]

Well put, Sween.

I do have a question: What is 'blue peter'?

Here, most people that jump on the soap box about "Freedom of Religion" (or freedom to practice their chosen religion) are Christians that want to promote their religion. For example, they want to have the high school football team and the audience at a high school football game to be led in a Christian prayer. Or to bring back having the entire school participate in a Christian prayer at the beginning of the school day.

This does not promote "Freedom of Religion", but rather imposes Christianity and the practices of Christianity on all students, regardless of what religion they belong to.

Personally, I have no problem with students holding a group prayer before school, or after school. Because to prevent them from doing this, on their own, would go against the Constitution of the US.

[GrayMouser]

And Harry Potter is not about Wicca- it's a mixed-up mumble-jumble of references to other books, movies, and half-absorbed commercialised images; it's the McDonald's of Fantasy.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by GrayMouser
J K Rowling is NOT a Wiccan. She is a member of the Church of Scotland (Presbyterian) ....

BAN HER BOOKS!! THEY PROMOTE CHRISTIANITY!!! BAN THEM!!! BAN THEM ALL!!!

And Harry Potter is not about Wicca- ... it's the McDonald's of Fantasy.

snicker Thanks for clearing those two things up for us, GrayMouser.

***The questions I posed to HectorBerlioz are still valid, since they don't really address the religion of the author, but the conversion of students in his school to Wicca and the correlation to reading the Harry Potter books.

[hectorberlioz]

[QOUTE]Originally posted by GrayMouser
J K Rowling is NOT a Wiccan. She is a member of the Church of Scotland (Presbyterian) .... [/QOUTE]

Oh really? so I guess that little 'blessing'[ she bestowed on danial radcliffe didnt happen?
And so she doesnt have a wicca's diploma?

I never said Harry Potter was about wicca. I said it promotes witchcraft.

Ruinel
I wasnt just talking about those church channels. I was talling about "touched by an angel" a show that is bieng cancelled because of an athiest.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by hectorberlioz
Ruinel
I wasnt just talking about those church channels. I was talling about "touched by an angel" a show that is bieng cancelled because of an athiest.

Could you post the article you read on this? I bet "Touched by an Angel" is being canceled not because of it's views on Christianity, but because of it's drop in ratings.

[hectorberlioz]

Lol, I know that show is cheesy, but the real reason of its bieng cancelled(actually. i think its already cancelled) was that this athiest woman and a bunch of other athiests voted it off because of its christian views.
The article is fairly old. Cant remember where i saw it. I'll be glad to post it if i find it though.

[hectorberlioz]

Athiests are also trying to take down several Ten Commandments' shrines,because of whatthey believe(or what they dont) Now that is just plain idiotic.
Some of these shrines were only kept up for 'historical' reasons.

I hope none of you think I'm trying to make athiests look bad, but this is what i meant when i said that athiests get 'riled up' about things when it comes to religion.

[HOBBIT]

Wow berlioz - what are you talking about?

Please get your facts straight.


I have seen no where that JKR is a Wiccan - I believe GM is correct that she is Christian. Its just a story dude!

Even if she is a Wiccan it would make no difference. It is just a story - and one that does not promote Wicca.

In fact, it does not even mention Wicca at all - Harry Potter never says he is wiccan. Its a FICTIONAL story that in no way (other than the fact that it deals with magic) relates to Wicca. Its just a fantasy story about wizards and witches using MADE UP SPELLS.

Oh really? so I guess that little 'blessing'[ she bestowed on danial radcliffe didnt happen?
And so she doesnt have a wicca's diploma?

What the heck are you talking about ? Are you getting inspired for a song or something ? Please show me your sources. And even if there was some "blessing" on Dan Radcliffe, I'm sure it was a publicity stunt/joke.

If Harry Potter promotes ANY religion - it would be CHRISTIANITY. Have you even read the books man? They always talk about CHRISTIAN holidays. What, no jewish wizards? Christmas is a big deal in the book, etc. I see no Wiccan celebrations in it.

Harry Potter is allowed in schools, but not the word GOD .

Um, no - What are you talking about ? Where are you getting your facts?

I have read many books for school that have the word god in them - many many. Even a bunch that are a bit religious.

For school I just read The Catcher In the Rye - he talks about God a bit - and Jesus A LOT. There are even some parallels to Jesus in it - James Castle is like a Jesus Christ character - he sacrifices himself.

Also just read To Kill A Mocking Bird - many references to god as well. They go to church many times in that book! Of course, the word god isnt in it, right? WRONG.

Runiel mentioned that The Scarlet Letter contains a lot of Christianity - I believe that the next book I have to read for English, then The Crucible - also contains religion, no?

We have also read many poems about God.

You just cant preach a certain religion in school - you can certainly read about it.

PS: That was me being civil, btw Just being a bit sarcastic.

[sun-star]

Originally posted by hectorberlioz
Oh really? so I guess that little 'blessing'[ she bestowed on danial radcliffe didnt happen?
And so she doesnt have a wicca's diploma?

Do you have sources for either of these claims? I'd be interested to see them, because I suspect they don't exist.

The issue of the religousness or otherwise of Harry Potter has been discussed many times, and no one comes up with anything new to say. The books do not explicitly promote Wicca or witchcraft - magic is used as a literary device.

Ruinel - Blue Peter is a British kids' TV programme. It's very worthy and BBC-ish, and tries to educate kids about all sorts of things - including religion, hence Sween's mention of it

[Ruinel]

[DELETED BY ME, DOUBLE POST]

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by sun-star
Ruinel - Blue Peter is a British kids' TV programme. It's very worthy and BBC-ish, and tries to educate kids about all sorts of things - including religion, hence Sween's mention of it

Oh, thanks.

Originally posted by HOBBIT
PS: That was me being civil, btw ...

I noticed.

Originally posted by HectorBerlioz
...but the real reason of its [Touched by an Angel] bieng cancelled ... was that this athiest woman and a bunch of other athiests voted it off because of its christian views....Athiests are also trying to take down several Ten Commandments' shrines....

Can you tell me where you read this information? Not that it really matters, though. If the people in charge of a television network vote to remove a show, for whatever reason, it's their decision, really. It's a business afterall. But if one of the Christian networks want to pick it up, I'm sure the show's producers, writers and actors would be thrilled. (BTW, I'm shocked to find that there are so many Atheists in control of the media and entertainment industry, since I hardly ever seem to run into any here in town.)

I believe the 10 Commandment's shrine thing is being fought by the ACLU. The "A" doesn't stand for "Atheists". And I also believe that it is being fought so strongly against because it is on PUBLIC PROPERTY... which is maintained with TAX PAYER MONEY. Why doesn't some local church pay to have it moved in front of their church? Wouldn't that be be a more reasonable and cost effective solution? The community would still have it's shrine, and the non-Christian taxpayers wouldn't have to pay for it's maintenance (separation of church and state). Instead, the Christians waste their money on lawyers fighting this in court.

[hectorberlioz]

Alright, Alright. You guys are making me giddy.
Too many things to say!
Alright, Ruinel, Maybe I was just wanting to use 'Dramatic effect' when I said thayt Harry Potter was converting kids to wicca(lol), kids just got interested in witchcraft and started messing around, inspired by harry.
I wish I could point out my sources, but I admit, that when I read all my material I was not paying attention(so hobbit could be right about whati read not bieng true)

I apoligize for bringing up the subject. It ends here.
AMEN

[Ruinel]

That's cool. I just wanted to read it myself, if you could site the sources of the information.

It's no skin off my nose, because, like I've said, I don't read the Harry Potter books. I just never got interested in them. They pale in comparison to JRRT's work.

Are there any Wiccan's at the Moot? Would someone want to come forward and explain this religion more?

[hectorberlioz]

Hope you guys dont totally hate me now... (especcially hobbit, I knw we've had some quarells. I ask his forgiveness.)
No, You guys cant hate me . We were just discussing stuff.